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Obamacare Subsidies

Mason66

Mason66

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Can somebody please explain what these subsidies are supposed to do.

It is my understanding that the subsidies will be given to people that can prove that they don't make enough money, whatever the cutoff is to pay for the premiums.

Is the subsidy to pay for the premiums or something else?

If the subsidy is to pay for the premiums, how will the person pay for the co-pays and the high out of pocket expenses all policy holders must pay before the insurance kicks in?

They have already proven they don't make enough to pay the premuims ontheir own.

I am a little confused on this.
 
Mason66 said:
Can somebody please explain what these subsidies are supposed to do.

It is my understanding that the subsidies will be given to people that can prove that they don't make enough money, whatever the cutoff is to pay for the premiums.

Is the subsidy to pay for the premiums or something else?

If the subsidy is to pay for the premiums, how will the person pay for the co-pays and the high out of pocket expenses all policy holders must pay before the insurance kicks in?

They have already proven they don't make enough to pay the premuims ontheir own.

I am a little confused on this.
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They'd better find the money to pay the co-pays and deductibles. If they really can't afford them, they're probably eligible for Medicaid.
 
Mason66 said:
Is the subsidy to pay for the premiums or something else?
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Both.

There are tax credit subsidies which lower the costs of premiums and cost-sharing subsidies which lower the out-of-pocket costs for low income individuals and families.

The cost-sharing subsidies serve to bring down the cost of individual instances of medical care such as to bring them within the reach of low-income earners.

As a hypothetical example, an insured earning 125% of the fed poverty limit may have co-pays capped at $5 for a doctor's office visit and $2 for a generic prescription.

As income increases as a percentage of the poverty level those cost-shared co-pays will increase correspondingly. Maybe at 200% of the fed poverty level they'd pay $15 for an office visit and $5 for a prescription.
 
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Mason66 said:
Can somebody please explain what these subsidies are supposed to do.

It is my understanding that the subsidies will be given to people that can prove that they don't make enough money, whatever the cutoff is to pay for the premiums.

Is the subsidy to pay for the premiums or something else?

If the subsidy is to pay for the premiums, how will the person pay for the co-pays and the high out of pocket expenses all policy holders must pay before the insurance kicks in?

They have already proven they don't make enough to pay the premuims ontheir own.

I am a little confused on this.
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Nope, you're not confused. Your assertions/assumptions are spot on.
 
Where does the money for the subsidies come from?
 
Mason66 said:
Where does the money for the subsidies come from?
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Taxpayers. The bill adds that tax penalty for failing to carry insurance, a medical device tax, and some others. Any leftovers will be picked up by the general fund.
 
soot said:
Both.

There are tax credit subsidies which lower the costs of premiums and cost-sharing subsidies which lower the out-of-pocket costs for low income individuals and families.

The cost-sharing subsidies serve to bring down the cost of individual instances of medical care such as to bring them within the reach of low-income earners.

As a hypothetical example, an insured earning 125% of the fed poverty limit may have co-pays capped at $5 for a doctor's office visit and $2 for a generic prescription.

As income increases as a percentage of the poverty level those cost-shared co-pays will increase correspondingly. Maybe at 200% of the fed poverty level they'd pay $15 for an office visit and $5 for a prescription.
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A tax credit for someone who doesn't pay taxes? How does that work?
 
Deuce said:
Taxpayers. The bill adds that tax penalty for failing to carry insurance, a medical device tax, and some others. Any leftovers will be picked up by the general fund.
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That's great...until someone figures out how to write off the penalty.
 
Deuce said:
Taxpayers. The bill adds that tax penalty for failing to carry insurance, a medical device tax, and some others. Any leftovers will be picked up by the general fund.
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Actually, that is not entirely correct. Taxpayers cannot even come close to paying the bills we already have, so the money must be borrowed. Your grandkids will be stuck with the bills.

Taxes like the medical device tax make even less sense. Government imposes a tax on healthcare devices, which will drive up the cost, which will drive up the cost of healthcare, which the government will then subsidize.
 
jimbo said:
Actually, that is not entirely correct. Taxpayers cannot even come close to paying the bills we already have, so the money must be borrowed. Your grandkids will be stuck with the bills.

Taxes like the medical device tax make even less sense. Government imposes a tax on healthcare devices, which will drive up the cost, which will drive up the cost of healthcare, which the government will then subsidize.
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I don't see what the problem is. A well written governmental SNAFU at it's best, dontcha think? ;)
 
GottaGo said:
I don't see what the problem is. A well written governmental SNAFU at it's best, dontcha think? ;)
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The best way to get folks to want UHC is to really mess up the "private" system - PPACA is doing that quite well. ;)
 
It's a wonderful redistribution system, isn't it? Limit the low earner's copays and stick it to the middle class (a family we are close to, healthy, 3 kids) just had their $400 a month policy canceled and their new policy will run $1300 a month with a $5000 deductible. Interesting point about the subsidies that the people who would get them may want to pay attention to, the subsidies are TAX BREAKS, not direct premium payments. So they will still be on the hook for their premiums and will (in theory) get a refund at tax time. I'm waiting to see when and how much that will change once the true costs are realized. I know, I know, this administration is morally above bait and switch tactics, call me a cynic.
 
Mason66 said:
Where does the money for the subsidies come from?
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The national debt. Buy votes today using borrowed money to make your campaign promises seem like reality.
 
GottaGo said:
I don't see what the problem is. A well written governmental SNAFU at it's best, dontcha think? ;)
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:agree: Anyone who thinks it was easy to write something like this has no idea how difficult it was to get the inmates from the insane asylums to pay attention to the suggestions from the aliens from outer space who were in charge of getting a health care law written. They deserve our pity--not our sneers! :wink:

Greetings, GottaGo. :2wave:
 
polgara said:
:agree: Anyone who thinks it was easy to write something like this has no idea how difficult it was to get the inmates from the insane asylums to pay attention to the suggestions from the aliens from outer space who were in charge of getting a health care law written. They deserve our pity--not our sneers! :wink:

Greetings, GottaGo. :2wave:
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:lamo Thanks for the morning grin, Polgara! Very close to the truth, I'm thinking.
 
Mason66 said:
Can somebody please explain what these subsidies are supposed to do.

It is my understanding that the subsidies will be given to people that can prove that they don't make enough money, whatever the cutoff is to pay for the premiums.

Is the subsidy to pay for the premiums or something else?

If the subsidy is to pay for the premiums, how will the person pay for the co-pays and the high out of pocket expenses all policy holders must pay before the insurance kicks in?

They have already proven they don't make enough to pay the premuims ontheir own.

I am a little confused on this.
Click to expand...

Since Healthcare.gov will know all about them and you and since they say they're poor and you're not, they'll be given policies that you pay for.
Those policies will have low/little/no premiums/co-pays by them (that's where you come in again because yours will be much higher to take up the slack).
Thus the world is finally a beautiful place.
It's the only fair thing to do. Ain't fairness great?
 
apdst said:
A tax credit for someone who doesn't pay taxes? How does that work?
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As you know, they do "pay" taxes.

Just like with you, me, and everyone else who collects a paycheck federal income taxes are deducted, ergo, they are "paid".

This credit, just like every credit, will result in some or all of the tax they do pay being credited (refunded) back to them.

So some folks will end up having the tax burden they were previously responsible for reduced while others will end up being net recipients of federal tax dollars and "effectively" not paying anything.

We'd have to look at it on a case-by-case basis.

I think it's safe to assume that those earning a very low percentage in relation to the federal poverty level (between 101% and 200%, say) will end up net recipients while those earning at the high end of that calculation (300% to 400%, say) will end up "just" having their tax burden reduced.
 
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bubbabgone said:
Since Healthcare.gov will know all about them and you and since they say they're poor and you're not, they'll be given policies that you pay for.
Those policies will have low/little/no premiums/co-pays by them (that's where you come in again because yours will be much higher to take up the slack).
Thus the world is finally a beautiful place.
It's the only fair thing to do. Ain't fairness great?
Click to expand...

Ah yes, the old "fairness" argument. Thanks for reminding me...It's been over an hour since I last heard it! Gosh, whatever was I thinking...Gotta have fairness, or things just don't make sense at all! :mrgreen:

Good morning, Bubba. :2wave:
 
soot said:
As you know, they do "pay" taxes.

Just like with you, me, and everyone else who collects a paycheck federal income taxes are deducted, ergo, they are "paid".

This credit, just like every credit, will result in some or all of the tax they do pay being credited (refunded) back to them.

So some folks will end up having the tax burden they were previously responsible for reduced while others will end up being net recipients of federal tax dollars and "effectively" not paying anything.

We'd have to look at it on a case-by-case basis.

I think it's safe to assume that those earning a very low percentage in relation to the federal poverty level (between 101% and 200%, say) will end up net recipients while those earning at the high end of that calculation (300% to 400%, say) will end up "just" having their tax burden reduced.
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In addition to the EIC, which most low-income groups qualify for and exceed whatever taxes they 'pay in', the subsidies will likely give them a nice little refund check to go blow on whatever.
 
GottaGo said:
In addition to the EIC, which most low-income groups qualify for and exceed whatever taxes they 'pay in', the subsidies will likely give them a nice little refund check to go blow on whatever.
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And if the 29-hour work week goes into effect, more will qualify for the low-income part! Is this a great plan or what? :mrgreen:
 
polgara said:
And if the 29-hour work week goes into effect, more will qualify for the low-income part! Is this a great plan or what? :mrgreen:
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My question being, once everybody is on EIC and subsidies, exactly who is going to be funding it all?

Running out of other people's money and all that...... ;)
 
soot said:
As you know, they do "pay" taxes.

Just like with you, me, and everyone else who collects a paycheck federal income taxes are deducted, ergo, they are "paid".

This credit, just like every credit, will result in some or all of the tax they do pay being credited (refunded) back to them.

So some folks will end up having the tax burden they were previously responsible for reduced while others will end up being net recipients of federal tax dollars and "effectively" not paying anything.

We'd have to look at it on a case-by-case basis.

I think it's safe to assume that those earning a very low percentage in relation to the federal poverty level (between 101% and 200%, say) will end up net recipients while those earning at the high end of that calculation (300% to 400%, say) will end up "just" having their tax burden reduced.
Click to expand...

And, every spring they get that money back. So, no, they don't pay taxes.
 
GottaGo said:
My question being, once everybody is on EIC and subsidies, exactly who is going to be funding it all?

Running out of other people's money and all that...... ;)
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Very good question! :thumbs: Since there will probably not be any other country on this planet willing to lend us another dime, I have to guess that most of us are going to learn how to make do with a lot less than we're used to. And health care will only be a small insignificant worry at that point, IMO. It will be interesting to see what Ms Yellen at the Fed thinks should be done...
 
polgara said:
Very good question! :thumbs: Since there will probably not be any other country on this planet willing to lend us another dime, I have to guess that most of us are going to learn how to make do with a lot less than we're used to. And health care will only be a small insignificant worry at that point, IMO. It will be interesting to see what Ms Yellen at the Fed thinks should be done...
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We're already there. America's credit rating used to be a triple-A. In a few years, it'll be a F-.

A little hyperbole, but you see where I'm going with this.
 
Mason66 said:
Where does the money for the subsidies come from?
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If I'm not mistaken, part of the Obamacare ponzi scheme is to fund the subsidies from some ficticious $500 to $700 billion in Medicare "efficiencies" and savings that the Democrats pulled out of their asses and the subsidies are subsidized further by penalties paid by businesses who don't provide employee insurance plans - recently delayed for one year - and penalties paid by individuals who don't buy insurance.

One thing I haven't seen fleshed out in all the discussions is what happens/who pays when a person without insurance, who has paid the government penalty, seeks medical services and doesn't or can't pay. Are hospitals and doctors now entitled to bill the federal government for the costs of those services since the federal government is in effect collecting a "premium" from them? Or are the hospitals and providers going to have to sue the government for payment?
 
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