Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health Plan

Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare - Forbes

Section 1251 of the Affordable Care Act contains what’s called a “grandfather” provision that, in theory, allows people to keep their existing plans if they like them. But subsequent regulations from the Obama administration interpreted that provision so narrowly as to prevent most plans from gaining this protection.

“The Departments’ mid-range estimate is that 66 percent of small employer plans and 45 percent of large employer plans will relinquish their grandfather status by the end of 2013,” wrote the administration on page 34552. All in all, more than half of employer-sponsored plans will lose their “grandfather status” and get canceled. According to the Congressional Budget Office, 156 million Americans—more than half the population—was covered by employer-sponsored insurance in 2013.

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Looks like the "transitioning" to different compliant plans will hit group insurance policies too.

Here is the link to the actual July 2010 grandfather memo: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Why would anyone want to keep their inadequate crap policies when under the ACA they can get better coverage for lower premiums?
Some of these junk policies do not even cover hospitalization or have absurdly high deductibles and absurdly low caps. They should be illegal and now they are.
This is a protection built into the ACA to make all policies meet a minimum standard of coverage.
Unfortunately insurers have not been forth-coming with offering comparably priced policies that cover better than the junk they can no longer sell under the law. They saw this as an opportunity to try an up-sell to higher priced coverage, making people believe that the higher priced coverage is their only alternative.
The insurance companies have been dishonest in an attempt to sell higher premium policies.
A little investigation by those who have received these cancellation letters will reveal that they will have much better coverage often at the same or lower premiums.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Why would anyone want to keep their inadequate crap policies when under the ACA they can get better coverage for lower premiums?
Some of these junk policies do not even cover hospitalization or have absurdly high deductibles and absurdly low caps. They should be illegal and now they are.
This is a protection built into the ACA to make all policies meet a minimum standard of coverage.
Unfortunately insurers have not been forth-coming with offering comparably priced policies that cover better than the junk they can no longer sell under the law. They saw this as an opportunity to try an up-sell to higher priced coverage, making people believe that the higher priced coverage is their only alternative.
The insurance companies have been dishonest in an attempt to sell higher premium policies.
A little investigation by those who have received these cancellation letters will reveal that they will have much better coverage often at the same or lower premiums.

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What right do you have to even comment on what others have chosen for themselves? You know nothing about the lives of others. Absolutely disgusting post.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Why would anyone want to keep their inadequate crap policies when under the ACA they can get better coverage for lower premiums?.

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Because the "inadequate crap policy" - i.e. bare-bones catastrophic insurance - is exactly what someone like me needs, for cases of some sudden illness or broken bones. I was paying my dentist out of pocket, and did the same for the rare medical expenses not covered by the policy, for years. It was a rational, frugal and low-risk strategy. I actually get to keep what I have - it is just suddenly 35% more expensive. But as we see, plenty of people do not.

In any case, what kind of attitude is this? You decide what is good for me, and then you lie to me, to sell your remedy for the problems I don't think I have? Authoritarian "progressivism" mixed with outright fraud.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Cyrylek said:

Because the "inadequate crap policy" - i.e. bare-bones catastrophic insurance - is exactly what someone like me needs, for cases of some sudden illness or broken bones. I was paying my dentist out of pocket, and did the same for the rare medical expenses not covered by the policy, for years. It was a rational, frugal and low-risk strategy. I actually get to keep what I have - it is just suddenly 35% more expensive. But as we see, plenty of people do not.

In any case, what kind of attitude is this? You decide what is good for me, and then you lie to me, to sell your remedy for the problems I don't think I have? Authoritarian "progressivism" mixed with outright fraud.

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Look on the exchanges. If you don't want a better product for less money no one can help you...including , it seems, yourself.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Ray410 said:

What right do you have to even comment on what others have chosen for themselves? You know nothing about the lives of others. Absolutely disgusting post.

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Yeah ... Pretty disgusting of me to let you know that you can get a better product for the same or less money huh?
I know enough about the lives of others to know that most would like a better deal...
Maybe not you Huh?:lamo

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Look on the exchanges. If you don't want a better product for less money no one can help you...including , it seems, yourself.

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I didn't ask for any bloody help. And what I got is exactly the same product - for more money. Only I am among the lucky ones: plenty of people are losing the product they want, and being forced to pay more for something they don't want. After having been lied to their faces that this will never, ever happen.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Yes - people don't realize what this is doing: people are laying A LOT MORE for the same coverage - they're just supporting everyone ELSE whose having babies and all that blah blah.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Yeah ... Pretty disgusting of me to let you know that you can get a better product for the same or less money huh?
I know enough about the lives of others to know that most would like a better deal...
Maybe not you Huh?:lamo

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You are missing the simple fact the law is flawed and is suited to basically one policy fits all. It is forceing a lot of people to buy policies with a lot of things in them they do not want or need. Just following the Democratic mantra on this that it is a panecea for all is wrong just as following or believing everything in it is bad per the Republicans. The truth probably lies in the middle. It will help some people and hurt some people. But one thing is certain, it will become a very inefficinet run program just like every other program run out of Washington.

I do think this program, the ACA has the ability to be a game changer on the political scene depending how it effects most people. How it effects those who already had insurance, whether that effect is good or bad. If the effect of this law is good for most Americans, it could give the Democrats another run in politics like they had from 1932 to 1952 and if it is bad, it could lead to a Republican Revolution and the country going back to the Reagan Era. I see this law, the ACA could really be a political game changer one way or the other. Which way, I do not have the foggyest.

Then it again it could break fairly even and the country continues along the same road it is now. But the potential is there.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Cyrylek said:

I didn't ask for any bloody help. And what I got is exactly the same product - for more money. Only I am among the lucky ones: plenty of people are losing the product they want, and being forced to pay more for something they don't want. After having been lied to their faces that this will never, ever happen.

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Have you looked on the exchanges to take advantage of the group rates? Or are you so determined to be independent that you insist on buying your policy privately?
If you want to pay more by buying a private policy the insurance companies won't stop you.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Aunt Spiker said:

Yes - people don't realize what this is doing: people are laying A LOT MORE for the same coverage - they're just supporting everyone ELSE whose having babies and all that blah blah.

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And even that is highly doubtful. It's not like my Medicare taxes went up - I am just paying more to the insurance company that had traded more regulations for forced enrollment of new members. How much "wealth" will be actually "transferred" to those new members (comparing to what was spent on them already via emergency rooms and other channels) is anyone's guess - most of them are young, healthy people who did not cost anyone much anyway.

We are not talking about some streamlined socialist program. That would be a topic for a different conversation. Here we have a ludicrous mongrel system combining the worst of both worlds - and pushed upon us by resorting to plain fraud.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Have you looked on the exchanges to take advantage of the group rates? Or are you so determined to be independent that you insist on buying your policy privately?
If you want to pay more by buying a private policy the insurance companies won't stop you.

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Don't worry, I did my homework. Sticking with the policy I have is still the best solution for me. I just have to pay 35% more, for the same thing.

But no, I am not 100% "determined": maybe I should just drop it, pay the bloody fine, and switch completely to concierge medicine
(Concierge Medicine Gains Ground).

Maybe we all should do this, as an act of civil disobedience: crash this idiocy and clear the way for a real health care reform.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Samhain said:

Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable To Keep Their Health Plans Under Obamacare - Forbes

Looks like the "transitioning" to different compliant plans will hit group insurance policies too.

Here is the link to the actual July 2010 grandfather memo: http://www.gpo.gov/fdsys/pkg/FR-2010-06-17/pdf/2010-14488.pdf

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Can we get insured? Yes we can!

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Why would anyone want to keep their inadequate crap policies when under the ACA they can get better coverage for lower premiums?
Some of these junk policies do not even cover hospitalization or have absurdly high deductibles and absurdly low caps. They should be illegal and now they are.
This is a protection built into the ACA to make all policies meet a minimum standard of coverage.
Unfortunately insurers have not been forth-coming with offering comparably priced policies that cover better than the junk they can no longer sell under the law. They saw this as an opportunity to try an up-sell to higher priced coverage, making people believe that the higher priced coverage is their only alternative.
The insurance companies have been dishonest in an attempt to sell higher premium policies.
A little investigation by those who have received these cancellation letters will reveal that they will have much better coverage often at the same or lower premiums.

Click to expand...

I'm just a lowly Canadian, so I'm not as clued in as a princely progressive may be, but did you actually read the content of the OP or did you just have your talking points ready to pounce?

The OP, from what I read, was talking about employer sponsored plans - not individual plans. And it indicated that 66% and 45% respectively for small and large employers would see their plans cancelled because they didn't meet new Obamacare guidelines. In many cases, these are plans that the employer and the employees' representatives negotiated over the years and in many cases at little out of pocket cost to the employee - many employees had to forego salary increases or larger salary increases in order to protect the healthcare insurance coverage they contracted. Now, due to that increased level of coverage mandated by Obamacare, 66% of small businesses and 45% of large businesses are going to have their employer sponsored plans cancelled with no guarantee whatsoever that the employer will foot the bill for the higher cost of the new plans rather than simply dump the employees into the pool and let them sink or swim for themselves while the business just pays the penalty.

How many of these employees who had plans they valued and wanted to keep are now tossed into the exchanges and having to pay significantly more to get minimal coverage under Obamacare? Do you know? I doubt it. You're too busy shilling for Obama and trying to run everyone else's household budget to give a damn.

Buck Ewer is a good user ID for you since your primary goal, through the content you post, is to carry Obama's water for him.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Cyrylek said:

Don't worry, I did my homework. Sticking with the policy I have is still the best solution for me. I just have to pay 35% more, for the same thing.

But no, I am not 100% "determined": maybe I should just drop it, pay the bloody fine, and switch completely to concierge medicine
(Concierge Medicine Gains Ground).

Maybe we all should do this, as an act of civil disobedience: crash this idiocy and clear the way for a real health care reform.

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Sure you could try the "concierge " approach and pay the tax...but know this. The individual mandate tax goes up each year you do not have a real policy and as more people join the exchanges the policy premiums WILL go down. Your 35% increase is not etched in stone. There are still five months to go before prices are settled.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

CanadaJohn said:

The OP, from what I read, was talking about employer sponsored plans - not individual plans. And it indicated that 66% and 45% respectively for small and large employers would see their plans cancelled because they didn't meet new Obamacare guidelines.

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The basic principal of all insurance premiums is that the larger the group, the smaller the rate.
Once the exchanges get populated the rate will go down and the coverage will be better than what many of these small group policies had. there is still five months to go before policy rates are set.
The "minimal coverage "will be better and most likely the cost will be the same or lower.
I don't carry anyone's water but I am ready to dispel many lies and fears being tossed around here lately

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Look on the exchanges.

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:lamo The offerings on the exchange suck. Poor people would get no medical care because they couldn't pay the massive deductibles and copay requirements. Obamacare is a system designed to deny the truly poor any medical care at all and to give still another massive tax break to the rich.

Why do you want the poor to have no medical care?

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

The basic principal of all insurance premiums is that the larger the group, the smaller the rate.
Once the exchanges get populated the rate will go down and the coverage will be better than what many of these small group policies had. there is still five months to go before policy rates are set.
The "minimal coverage "will be better and most likely the cost will be the same or lower.
I don't carry anyone's water but I am ready to dispel many lies and fears being tossed around here lately

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Unless many of the people joining the risk pool are high-risk individuals or people with pre-existing conditions. You know, the type of people who couldn't get insurance before who are clamoring for Obamacare. In order for costs to even come close to staying level, you need a huge influx of young people to overpay on their premiums. Yes, I said overpay because the great majority of young people don't need comprehensive health insurance - catastrophic policies are the more economical (read: better and more appropriate) policy for them. Just because the group is larger doesn't mean costs will always be smaller. If you have a small group of healthy, young, low-risk individuals, they will have smaller premiums than a large group with a good deal of older, high-risk individuals with pre-existing conditions.

The way things are currently going, there is not going to be near enough healthy young people willing to sign up to overpay for insurance they don't need/can't afford. Many will elect to pay the fine, causing rates to go up and the system to crash.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

joko104 said:

:lamo The offerings on the exchange suck. Poor people would get no medical care because they couldn't pay the massive deductibles and copay requirements. Obamacare is a system designed to deny the truly poor any medical care at all and to give still another massive tax break to the rich.

Why do you want the poor to have no medical care?

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Working poor people had few options for medical care before the ACA. Now they are eligible for subsides that defray deductible and co-pay expenses as well as premiums, based on the ability to pay. Truly poor people had , and still do have, ( now expanded), medicaid.
If what you are advocating here is that we should go back to the way things were before the ACA was passed... YOU are the one who seems to want poor people to have no medical care.:lamo:lamo

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

CycloneWanderer said:

Unless many of the people joining the risk pool are high-risk individuals or people with pre-existing conditions. You know, the type of people who couldn't get insurance before who are clamoring for Obamacare. In order for costs to even come close to staying level, you need a huge influx of young people to overpay on their premiums. Yes, I said overpay because the great majority of young people don't need comprehensive health insurance - catastrophic policies are the more economical (read: better and more appropriate) policy for them. Just because the group is larger doesn't mean costs will always be smaller. If you have a small group of healthy, young, low-risk individuals, they will have smaller premiums than a large group with a good deal of older, high-risk individuals with pre-existing conditions.

The way things are currently going, there is not going to be near enough healthy young people willing to sign up to overpay for insurance they don't need/can't afford. Many will elect to pay the fine, causing rates to go up and the system to crash.

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There is no doubt about it...participation by all is the key. But understand this; The individual mandate tax penalty goes up every year :

For 2014, $95 per uninsured person or 1 percent of household income over the filing threshold,
For 2015, $325 per uninsured person or 2 percent of household income over the filing threshold, and
For 2016 and beyond, $695 per uninsured person or 2.5 percent of household income over the filing threshold.

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...at $695 per person in the household and $695 for every 2.5% they make over the filing threshold. Buying insurance begins to look like a more attractive option. Don't forget paying the mandate penalty tax does not exempt these "healthy young people" from being billed enormously by the emergency rooms when the do get sick or break a leg skiing.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

Why would anyone want to keep their inadequate crap policies when under the ACA they can get better coverage for lower premiums?
Some of these junk policies do not even cover hospitalization or have absurdly high deductibles and absurdly low caps. They should be illegal and now they are.
This is a protection built into the ACA to make all policies meet a minimum standard of coverage.
Unfortunately insurers have not been forth-coming with offering comparably priced policies that cover better than the junk they can no longer sell under the law. They saw this as an opportunity to try an up-sell to higher priced coverage, making people believe that the higher priced coverage is their only alternative.
The insurance companies have been dishonest in an attempt to sell higher premium policies.
A little investigation by those who have received these cancellation letters will reveal that they will have much better coverage often at the same or lower premiums.

Click to expand...

The article is referring to employer based plans, both large group and small group.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Samhain said:

The article is referring to employer based plans, both large group and small group.

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The exchanges will make even large group policies look tiny by comparison.
If they are being cancelled they are probably inadequate under the law...but not necessarily.
The insurance industry has always been canceling policy choices large, small and individual every year...
People are paying attention to the practice of canceling policies now because of the launch of the ACA.
This practice is nothing new.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

There is no doubt about it...participation by all is the key. But understand this; The individual mandate tax penalty goes up every year :
...at $695 per person in the household and $695 for every 2.5% they make over the filing threshold. Buying insurance begins to look like a more attractive option. Don't forget paying the mandate penalty tax does not exempt these "healthy young people" from being billed enormously by the emergency rooms when the do get sick or break a leg skiing.

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Basically, the "OR ELSE!" part of the mandate gets more dire over the next few years. I'm sure that'll go over well with the young-but-healthy, student-loan-ridden individual barely making enough to not qualify for insurance subsidies. Nevermind the fact that they could have gotten catastrophic care insurance a few years prior which would have saved them thousands of dollars every year they could have used to pay the rent, the ever-increasing gas bill, or perhaps get out of debt before they are 35.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

Buck Ewer said:

The exchanges will make even large group policies look tiny by comparison.
If they are being cancelled they are probably inadequate under the law...but not necessarily.
The insurance industry has always been canceling policy choices large, small and individual every year...
People are paying attention to the practice of canceling policies now because of the launch of the ACA.
This practice is nothing new.

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"Inadequate under the law" and inadequate in the real world for an individual person are two completely different things. The premiums people are going to be forced to pay for insurance they don't need seems inadequate to me. I've already informed you about the fact that just because a large number of people are in an insurance policy doesn't automatically make it more economical. The exchanges will be filled with high-risk individuals and folks with pre-existing conditions which will drive the costs up for everyone. If a decent percent of the young healthies decide they'd rather pay a fine, those premiums will skyrocket beyond "adequacy." Guess what happens then? Either the system breaks or the OR ELSE part of the mandate will be worsened. This is a big gamble the government is taking relying on young people, the ones least able to give financially to society, to sacrifice more of their economic freedom for people they have no connection with.

Re: Obama Officials In 2010: 93 Million Americans Will Be Unable ToKeep Their Health

CycloneWanderer said:

Basically, the "OR ELSE!" part of the mandate gets more dire over the next few years. I'm sure that'll go over well with the young-but-healthy, student-loan-ridden individual barely making enough to not qualify for insurance subsidies. Nevermind the fact that they could have gotten catastrophic care insurance a few years prior which would have saved them thousands of dollars every year they could have used to pay the rent, the ever-increasing gas bill, or perhaps get out of debt before they are 35.

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Well if these poor little kids are under 25 they can still be on mom and dads policy and if they are truly poor without help from mom and dad they WILL get subsides. If they are making decent money and can afford insurance do you really want them freeloading on the system and driving up ER and hospital costs?
The penalty tax is linked to income and ability to pay. That is why it is being administered by the IRS. They know how much they make.