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Obama Rejects Latest House GOP Offer

Congress is at 5%, so obviously none of them care.

Congress has always been disliked. But for most people they loved their own congressman, but hated the other 434. Today in a poll yesterday, 60% of Americans said kick the bums out to include their own congressman. Almost every media market, newspaper etc just glossed over this. But it does show most Americans are fed up with both parties as did the stats I just gave you in my other post.

How long will this last? That is the question as the parties are banking on when the people go to the poll all of this will be long forgotten. They are probably right, Americans have short memories and rarely hold something long term against one party or the other. Other events and issues will have replaced the shutdown. So we will see what happens, but I am almost certain this shutdown will mean very little come next November, of 2014 I mean. Next month it still might be a big thing, that is until something bigger replaces it and it will.
 
Our congress has nothing to do with that considering we don't vote via popular vote in a democratic/constitutional republic (at least not on federal legislation)...

I can't blame republicans for anything in this situation - they continually give the Senate bills and the Senate along with Obama reject them.... Republicans are at least trying here - the progressive democrats just want their cake and eat it...

It's really that simple.

Also, the only reason why republicans have taken a hit is because the MSM and the idiots that pay attention to their lies and propaganda do nothing more than champion democrats....

The truth is extremely simple - republicans in the House sent several bills to the Senate and they were all denied because all progressives in the Senate care about is funding Obamacare...

In this instance republicans are trying and democrats are acting like the 5-year-old in the checkout aisle stomping his/her feet because mommy wouldn't by him/her a candy bar

Here is the thing, prior to the shut down, the Democrats proposed a 1.2 trillion dollar CR, the GOP wanted 980 billion. Then the Democrats agreed to what i think was 986 billion and it looked like a done deal. Then the Republicans added the rider to defund the ACA to an already agreed upon by both parties bill. There is no question about who started the shut down or who was initially responsible for it outside those die hard Republicans. A lick of common sense would have told any politician that the Democratic Senate would agree to defund Obamacare and if by chance they did, the president would veto the bill. The republicans over shot big time and all the misery and ilk now being brought down upon them was and is their own doing.

Now they are looking towards the Democrat to help them out of the mess they created themselves. When it comes to political intelligence, no not intelligence, common sense over the last 2 years the Republicans have shown a remarkable lack of it. The democrats know how to play the political game, the republicans do not even know how to dress for the game. But the fact that the public also sees the Democrats not willing to negotiate has hurt them too. It has also hurt the president, but not as much as it has Republicans.

You might say the Republicans stabbed themselves in the back, now the democrats just want to twist it some before they pull that knife out.
 
Here is the thing, prior to the shut down, the Democrats proposed a 1.2 trillion dollar CR, the GOP wanted 980 billion. Then the Democrats agreed to what i think was 986 billion and it looked like a done deal. Then the Republicans added the rider to defund the ACA to an already agreed upon by both parties bill. There is no question about who started the shut down or who was initially responsible for it outside those die hard Republicans. A lick of common sense would have told any politician that the Democratic Senate would agree to defund Obamacare and if by chance they did, the president would veto the bill. The republicans over shot big time and all the misery and ilk now being brought down upon them was and is their own doing.

Now they are looking towards the Democrat to help them out of the mess they created themselves. When it comes to political intelligence, no not intelligence, common sense over the last 2 years the Republicans have shown a remarkable lack of it. The democrats know how to play the political game, the republicans do not even know how to dress for the game. But the fact that the public also sees the Democrats not willing to negotiate has hurt them too. It has also hurt the president, but not as much as it has Republicans.

You might say the Republicans stabbed themselves in the back, now the democrats just want to twist it some before they pull that knife out.

The House has refused to fund Obamacare since day one... This has nothing to do with anything other than Obamacare...

Hell, the second Obamacare was passed I said "good luck getting it funded by the House."

Republicans made no damn mess - progressives made all the mess with their epic spending on social programs and retarded regulations, taxes and outright bans that killed jobs...
 
The House has refused to fund Obamacare since day one... This has nothing to do with anything other than Obamacare...

Hell, the second Obamacare was passed I said "good luck getting it funded by the House."

Republicans made no damn mess - progressives made all the mess with their epic spending on social programs and retarded regulations, taxes and outright bans that killed jobs...

Spoken like a true die hard Republican. In fact both parties are guilty as all get out when it comes to the debt, both hands are dirty. Reagan a Republican added 1.873 trillion to the debt, he couldn't had done this with Tip O'Neal approval. Tip was the Speaker in a Democratic controlled House. This is an example of both parties walking down that path together. Bush the First added 1.484 trillion to the debt, again with a Democratic controlled House which neither party really attempted to stop. So both parties held hands in this spending extravagance. That is 3.721 trillion worth of spending both parties agreed to. I suppose one could blame all the spending during the first two years of Clinton on the Democrats alone, since Democrat's controlled both chambers and the presidency. That is 525 billion. But for the last six years of Clinton, the Republicans controlled congress so we are now back to both. Add another 523 billion to the both column which would put both parties responsible for 4.243 trillion Democrats only 525 billion.

But then we have the first six years of Bush the Second. His first six years the republicans controlled both chambers of congress and of course the presidency. Call these year Republican only to the tune of 1.782 trillion, the remaining 2.902 trillion was added during Bush the Second last two years in which the Democrats controlled congress. Put that figure into the both column. So just prior to Obama taking office the totals are Both parties 7.145 trillion, Democrats only 525 billion, Republicans only 1.782 trillion.

now the first two years of Obama was all Democrat because they controlled everything. Add 2.880 trillion to the Democratic only column and they now have 3.045 trillion, the republican only column 1.782 trillion and both parties stand at 7.145 trillion for the 11.972 worth of debt.
Now add 4.028 trillion to both parties since the Republicans have controlled the House since January of 2011, you have these totals

Both Parties Responsible 11.173 trillion
Republicans only 1.782 trillion
Democrats only 3.045 trillion

Now this comes out to just 16 trillion, but one must remember that 994 billion prior to Reagan which adds up to the now 17 trillion or there about in debt.
 
Obama is such a failure of a leader. All he does is pass blame to the GOP, try to "make it hurt" in order to make it seem like the GOP are villains while the GOP is working and sending multiple bills through that he is unwilling to even negotiate on. I can't even stomach following him on Facebook anymore, literally all of his recent posts have been GOP hit pieces in an extremely hackish way without any kind of rational call for compromise.
 
Well, anyone who has been paying attention the last five years knows he's unpresidential and a crappy leader. But the Republicans made one of the dumbest political moves of all time here.
 
then explain to me why I think they are whacky RW nut jobs. Before you start on the MSM I probably have watched Fox more over the years than any, and at one time I was as far right as anyone. The Tea Party, at least today's version, is the party of uber conservatives, Palin, Rush Cruz and the others do not reflect the face of America today, thinking they do might be the problem.



Kennedy extolled the virtue of limited spending and tax cuts as a tool to grow the economy.

What does the MSM have to do with Kennedy?
 
I was talking about why I, and a lot of other people, think Tea Party types are so far right wing they could be considered whacky. The MSM is usually why my tea party frinds point to as a cause. I dont necessarily buy the Kennedy comparison.
Kennedy extolled the virtue of limited spending and tax cuts as a tool to grow the economy.

What does the MSM have to do with Kennedy?
 
It's not their ideology that makes them wacky, it's the fact that they are political neophytes. Neophytes with the numbers to drag leadership into their ill advised battles.
 
And the Right operates in the elementary arena of arithmetic, not realizing the complicated real world takes at the very least advanced algebra.
Not always....

1 lousy president + 1 idiot VP + 1 feckless Senate Majority Leader - 1 House Speaker [ demoted to House Minority Leader ] = mountains of debt and failed policy, both foreign and domestic.

Some of it is fairly simple.

Thank you so much for proving my point so well.
Case closed.
 
I was talking about why I, and a lot of other people, think Tea Party types are so far right wing they could be considered whacky. The MSM is usually why my tea party frinds point to as a cause. I dont necessarily buy the Kennedy comparison.



"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." Probably one of the most famous quotes from American politics.

If it were to be said today, is it more likely it would be said by a TEA Party member or Nancy Pelosi? Harry Reid? Barrack Obama?

Beyond that, is it more likely that it would be accorded icon status or riddled with criticism as being accusatory, mean spirited and racist.

The country has been changed from what it was to what it is. What any country is at any point in time is largely determined by how powerful or incompetent the people who comprise it view themselves to be as individuals.

Our country has changed from one comprised of individuals who are proud and confident that they will succeed to one where individuals are despairing and fearful knowing that they will fail. This is the failure of our leaders and their leadership.

This is the inevitable destination of the journey into socialism. It is the difference between between being the people that choose to do these things because they are difficult and being the people who didn't build that.
 
As I understand it, originally the TEA party was simply Taxed enough already. The rest of the baggage that comes with the tea party, the crazy whacky social issues part and the corporate interests, is not something they are doing for their country, but to their country. If you just look at the mythical scandals the right gins up to keeps the RW's fired up all the time, that does far more harm to the country than good. At least have some evidence before accusing people of stuff. It destroys what little creditability the TP might have. No, I dont believe the TP has the country's best interest at heart, I believe it has Koch industries (and others) at heart. The Tea party saying to ask what would be best for the country would sound out of character to me, but hearing them ask what is best for business, well that is very common theme. The tea party's problem is it it is the party of well off old white guys, and there just aint that many of us around anymore, it is going to be difficult to run the country considering our interest alone. Take the tone of your post below. Anyone that disagrees with your groups opinions are antiAmerican, and accuses everyone that disagrees with them as being racist or lazy or some other character disorder. Funny, the tea party is a group who wished to do things because they are difficult (oh, how wonderful) and those that did not build that. Them people...
"Ask not what your country can do for you. Ask what you can do for your country." Probably one of the most famous quotes from American politics.

If it were to be said today, is it more likely it would be said by a TEA Party member or Nancy Pelosi? Harry Reid? Barrack Obama?

Beyond that, is it more likely that it would be accorded icon status or riddled with criticism as being accusatory, mean spirited and racist.

The country has been changed from what it was to what it is. What any country is at any point in time is largely determined by how powerful or incompetent the people who comprise it view themselves to be as individuals.

Our country has changed from one comprised of individuals who are proud and confident that they will succeed to one where individuals are despairing and fearful knowing that they will fail. This is the failure of our leaders and their leadership.

This is the inevitable destination of the journey into socialism. It is the difference between between being the people that choose to do these things because they are difficult and being the people who didn't build that.
 
Yep, as long as we both understand you are wrong...completely satisfied with that assessment.

That is even simpler math....One for me, zero for you.

So there has been NO debt under a GOP president? Funny how when there is a GOP president, the right was the one saying raise the debt ceiling. Amazing how that works.
 
As I understand it, originally the TEA party was simply Taxed enough already. The rest of the baggage that comes with the tea party, the crazy whacky social issues part and the corporate interests, is not something they are doing for their country, but to their country. If you just look at the mythical scandals the right gins up to keeps the RW's fired up all the time, that does far more harm to the country than good. At least have some evidence before accusing people of stuff. It destroys what little creditability the TP might have. No, I dont believe the TP has the country's best interest at heart, I believe it has Koch industries (and others) at heart. The Tea party saying to ask what would be best for the country would sound out of character to me, but hearing them ask what is best for business, well that is very common theme. The tea party's problem is it it is the party of well off old white guys, and there just aint that many of us around anymore, it is going to be difficult to run the country considering our interest alone. Take the tone of your post below. Anyone that disagrees with your groups opinions are antiAmerican, and accuses everyone that disagrees with them as being racist or lazy or some other character disorder. Funny, the tea party is a group who wished to do things because they are difficult (oh, how wonderful) and those that did not build that. Them people...



So, which party would be more likely to echo those words of JFK right now at a political rally?

Can you really imagine that a current Democrat would say those words to a gathering of the faithful?

The Democrat Party of today is one that asserts that people are weak and stupid and that the government is the only hope for their future and as such, must become ever larger and more intrusive into those areas of life that were once private sector concerns. This seems to be in stark contrast to the message put for by JFK.

Your thoughts?
 
So there has been NO debt under a GOP president? Funny how when there is a GOP president, the right was the one saying raise the debt ceiling. Amazing how that works.



So what is YOUR belief on this? Is it good to run up a debt that will be the responsibility of our children and theirs to repay?
 
So what is YOUR belief on this? Is it good to run up a debt that will be the responsibility of our children and theirs to repay?

My belief it isn't a good thing to do, but I'm not in the bit delusioned to not realize this is all political. When the right is in charge, they spend like drunken sailors as well only they spend on stuff THEY want.

We see it time and time again. When the right is in charge, they spend and the left complains about it. When the left is in charge, they spend and the right complains about it. Same ole ****, different day and both sides eat up the rhetoric like it was sugar smack.
 
So, which party would be more likely to echo those words of JFK right now at a political rally?

Neither, at least not without lying through their teeth.

Can you really imagine that a current Democrat would say those words to a gathering of the faithful?

The "faithful"? Are you under the impression all Dems are athetist or something?

The Democrat Party of today is one that asserts that people are weak and stupid and that the government is the only hope for their future and as such, must become ever larger and more intrusive into those areas of life that were once private sector concerns. This seems to be in stark contrast to the message put for by JFK.

Your thoughts?

And the Republicans think people are "morally weak" and need the government involvement there. Abortion, SSM, FCC making sure nothing "bad" is on T.V..

The Republicans are just like the Dems in that they use big government for things THEY like. The Republicans are just another side of the same coin with the Dems.
 
The Tea Party has demonized everyone and everything that disagrees with them. I think if either party used those words the other would appropriately accuse them of plagiarism. I dont think "othering" everyone that even slightly disagrees with you is very American. Notice how you refer to Demo's as the "faithful?" Exactly where and when does the Leftys assert people are weak and stupid? Unfettered capitalism would destroy this country far quicker than social programs. Ask not what your country can do for you, but what you can do for big business...
So, which party would be more likely to echo those words of JFK right now at a political rally?

Can you really imagine that a current Democrat would say those words to a gathering of the faithful?

The Democrat Party of today is one that asserts that people are weak and stupid and that the government is the only hope for their future and as such, must become ever larger and more intrusive into those areas of life that were once private sector concerns. This seems to be in stark contrast to the message put for by JFK.

Your thoughts?
 
My belief it isn't a good thing to do, but I'm not in the bit delusioned to not realize this is all political. When the right is in charge, they spend like drunken sailors as well only they spend on stuff THEY want.

We see it time and time again. When the right is in charge, they spend and the left complains about it. When the left is in charge, they spend and the right complains about it. Same ole ****, different day and both sides eat up the rhetoric like it was sugar smack.



I will agree that both parties are peopled by lying thieves that are whores for anyone who will give them a dime. There are plenty of takers.

The Dems in the last 5 years have exceeded any limit of avarice ever established by anyone before at any time, in any organization, government or group. My apologies to crack whores and pimps who may feel slighted that they have been bettered by this class of folks.

In the USA this year, we will have collected more tax than in any year in our history and we will still be posting a deficit never reached before the Obama Administration. That's just got to impress you.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:US_Public_Debt_Ceiling_1981-2010.png
 
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I will agree that both parties are people by lying thieves that are whores for anyone who will give them a dime. There are plenty of takers.

The Dems in the last 5 years have exceeded any limit of avarice ever established by anyone before at any time, in any organization, government or group.

In the USA this year, we will have collected more tax than in any year in our history and we will still be posting a deficit never reached before the Obama Administration. That's just got to impress you.

The debt and spending has been going up by EACH presidency. Bush doubled Clinton's debt, Obama's doubled Bush's debt. Somewhere in there before Reagan tripled the debt.

So what does it tell you when EACH presiency that the debt has gone up regardless of whether it was a Dem or Republican president? Sounds to me like both parties suck.
 
IF that is the only measure you use, yes both parties suck. But I dont believe the US is a corporation, so maybe we should look at other indicators to decide which really sucks worse, or more, or something like that...
The debt and spending has been going up by EACH presidency. Bush doubled Clinton's debt, Obama's doubled Bush's debt. Somewhere in there before Reagan tripled the debt.

So what does it tell you when EACH presiency that the debt has gone up regardless of whether it was a Dem or Republican president? Sounds to me like both parties suck.
 
Just in case any of you are wondering who is actually responsible for the continuing on-going Govt. shut down, it's the guy who was offered literally everything he wanted, but for a shorter time, with the request that he pretty-please be willing to negotiate in the meantime on something - anything, and still said no ; because he thinks that the longer more people are in pain, the better off he does politically.




There you have it. The next time anyone in the Administration complains about the shutdown or coming debt limit, remind them that they value it less than the opportunity to perhaps divide some of their political opposition.[/FONT][/COLOR]

The thing here is both parties and the president are being hurt by the shutdown. The Republicans are being hurt much more and their numbers have plumeted. From 30% of the American people who would identify with them down to 20%, a whopping 10 point drop. But the Democrats have dropped too, from 35% to 30% a five point drop, but they had higher numbers to begin with so the drop in their party numbers means far less. They know in our two party system, a race between 2 candidates it doesn't matter if 70% of the electorate would prefer someone else, they know 80% of the electorate prefer someone else than their opponent.

So no need to do anything as long as the other party is falling more than yours. I do not think the Dems care if they fall to 15% of the people who like them, as long as the Republicans fall to 10% So what, the people only get a choice between the two parties. The are forced to vote for the lesser of two evils, which in today is the Democrats. But friends, even if the Democrats are the lesser of two evils when it comes to the two parties, you are still electing evil.

Hence it will continue to be business as usual until we fall into that fiscal abyss thanks to the people and a system that dictates the election of the lesser of two evils.
 
IF that is the only measure you use, yes both parties suck. But I dont believe the US is a corporation, so maybe we should look at other indicators to decide which really sucks worse, or more, or something like that...

Take a look at all the indicators you want, the Dems and Reps (presidency and in congress) have failed us. Neither side is clean, so it's rather pathetic to see one side or the other claim some "morality" in spending or government control. Both sides use big government for the things THEY want and BOTH sides spend like mad.

When the right is in charge, they spend while the left complains and when the left is in charge they spend while the right complains.

So please tell me how one side is magically "moral" on spending or getting rid of big government.
 
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