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John McCain Blames Tea Party For Government Shutdown

You've never once voted for a crook? I find that extremely hard to believe.

I have. However I didn't know at the time they were crooked. Only once did I vote for a crook knowing they were a crook. Couldn't stomach the alternative.
 
No, I don't. Perhaps you should work on speaking for yourself rather than thinking you can speak for other posters. Add somethinng to the conversation, rather than trolling.

Not trolling, and you did indeed admit you voted for and supported McCain, a known crook. Perhaps in the future you should actually read what you post.

Originally Posted by beefheart
Well, I'm not a "leftist", I voted for McCain in the Senate primary and general election, and for president. But, don't let facts get in the way of things.
 
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Not trolling, and you did indeed admit you voted for and supported McCain, a known crook. Perhaps in the future you should actually read what you post.

Your opinion is that he is a crook. Perhaps in the future you might actually understand reading comprehension and logic, but, judging from your reponses to me and others (and their reactions), you are just a juvenile troll. Grow up a bit before you try to enter into an intelligent debate.
 
So you condone letting the damage happen...letting lives be ruined...letting people suffer...because you don't have the courage to try to stop this thing before the damage is done.

I don't agree with your suggested course of action.
What I condone is an adherence to reality. What I condone is pursuing strategies that actually have a chance at success. In the battle against Obamacare republicans lack three key things 1) power. Pure and simple, without the power of the Senate and the power of the Presidency, they lack the power to end Obamacare. 2) They lack the moral foundation for opposing it in the first place. If they cannot or will not make the moral case against state run programs like SS, Medicare/Medicaid, or state run education, upon what moral basis do they oppose Obamacare? 3)Lack of alternative. That sort of speaks for itself.
 
John McCain Blames Tea Party For Government Shutdown

McCain tends to vacillate between moments of deep clarity and principle, and moments of empty partisanship. This was a moment of clarity.

McCain did say it was a fools errand and I agree with him. McCain does have his moments. But almost all politicians spend most of their time in what you refer to as an empty partisanship mode. Two of the most partisan I have seen in a very long time are the leaders in the Senate. Reid and McConnell just can get past party. I doubt if those two realize they were Americans once instead of Republican and Democrat.
 
Your opinion is that he is a crook. Perhaps in the future you might actually understand reading comprehension and logic, but, judging from your reponses to me and others (and their reactions), you are just a juvenile troll. Grow up a bit before you try to enter into an intelligent debate.

Nice try, but you stepped in it and now want to avoid what you posted. I've got a few years on you sonny, so give the idiot "juvenile" responses a rest. Some of us were adults when the Keating Five were doing their thing.
 
Nice try, but you stepped in it and now want to avoid what you posted. I've got a few years on you sonny, so give the idiot "juvenile" responses a rest. Some of us were adults when the Keating Five were doing their thing.

I did not step in anything, I said I voted for him, you projected your opinion that he is a crook and tried to make it my opinion. I was an adult during Keating 5, I remember it well. Please, show me his criminal record.

You don't make a very good first impression, or second, or third. I don't tolerate trolls who can't use logic and reason to argue. I'm done feeding you.
 
Why can't we push a button and transform all tea party members to Libertarians?

Because teatards are not Libertarians. They're merely xenophobic, brain-dead idiots who have no clue about anything and are just bitching out of some misguided belief that "illegals" are taking away their money and using hospitals like crazy.

The teatards' only use is to establishment Repubs who can successfully dupe them every time.
 
What I condone is an adherence to reality. What I condone is pursuing strategies that actually have a chance at success. In the battle against Obamacare republicans lack three key things

Get real :rolleyes: The GOP supports Obamacare. They love it 100%, because the insurers love it and the insurers are who pay the extra salaries of people like Boner.

The GOP "opposition" to O-care is merely stale political posturing, and regrettably, as has always been the case, the gullible GOP voting bloc is duped by it.
 
What I condone is an adherence to reality. What I condone is pursuing strategies that actually have a chance at success. In the battle against Obamacare republicans lack three key things 1) power. Pure and simple, without the power of the Senate and the power of the Presidency, they lack the power to end Obamacare. 2) They lack the moral foundation for opposing it in the first place. If they cannot or will not make the moral case against state run programs like SS, Medicare/Medicaid, or state run education, upon what moral basis do they oppose Obamacare? 3)Lack of alternative. That sort of speaks for itself.

Okay.

You stick to your strategies. I'm sure those who get the short end of Obamacare will thank you for that.
 
Okay.

You stick to your strategies. I'm sure those who get the short end of Obamacare will thank you for that.
Look, they were going to get the short end anyway. I oppose Obamacare as much as you do. What we disagree about is what is currently dividing the republicans in congress--what is the best way to get rid of Obamacare? The only way I can see to ever do that is to elect enough people to political positions that wish to dismantle the law. And the only way to elect enough people to those political positions is for the people to realize just how destructive Obamacare is and will be. So let it go into effect. If it is a disaster, people will elect politicians to fix the problem. That's how it works.
 
Look, they were going to get the short end anyway. I oppose Obamacare as much as you do. What we disagree about is what is currently dividing the republicans in congress--what is the best way to get rid of Obamacare? The only way I can see to ever do that is to elect enough people to political positions that wish to dismantle the law. And the only way to elect enough people to those political positions is for the people to realize just how destructive Obamacare is and will be. So let it go into effect. If it is a disaster, people will elect politicians to fix the problem. That's how it works.

Eventually it will more likely be modified through amendments. Working toward that end will probably do more for those opposed to some of the potential effects of the law than repeal or government shutdown.
 
I did not step in anything, I said I voted for him, you projected your opinion that he is a crook and tried to make it my opinion. I was an adult during Keating 5, I remember it well. Please, show me his criminal record.

You don't make a very good first impression, or second, or third. I don't tolerate trolls who can't use logic and reason to argue. I'm done feeding you.

Let's see, a newbie to the forum who quite obviously didn't read up on any of the posters he's debating with makes a number of outright false characterizations and then claims logic and reason? Laughable.

If you truly remember the Keating Five you'd know that McCain escaped censure only because:

The Senate Ethics Committee did not pursue, for lack of jurisdiction, any possible ethics breaches in McCain's delayed reimbursements to Keating for trips at the latter's expense, because they occurred while McCain was in the House.[61] The House Committee on Standards of Official Conduct said that it too lacked jurisdiction, because McCain was no longer in the House.[62] It said it did not require that McCain amend his existing financial disclosure forms for his House years, on the grounds that McCain had now fully reimbursed Keating's company.

Source

You haven't been here long enough to know the trolls from the regular posters, nor, being a McCain voter have you demonstrated the judgement to do so.
 
This is at the very least slightly disingenuous. Moments of deep clarity and principle seem to only be identified with siding with liberal Democrats, whereas empty partisanship seems to be identified whenever he turns into what liberals see as a form of a conservative (or a hawkish conservative)



Duh. He has to move to the Right to satisfy the rest of the party, much like a moderate Democrat would have to pivot to the Left to gain support of the base (and hope that liberals or left-wingers wouldn't be disproportionately willing to pull the plug for a primary challenger or a 3rd party candidate.[/COLOR]

I think it's a bit passé to talk about moderate Democrats pivoting left to win elections. If any thing, the Democratic party is a center right party, with progressive elements. Obama pivoted right to get both the nomination and the election (and he didn't really have to pivot much, since he's basically a centrists).

This just goes to show how far the country has lurched right over the years due to the bombardment of the rightwing noise machine.

I suspect that's ending soon as the longterm consequences of crazy rightwing politics is finally sinking in for Americans at their kitchen tables.
 
Let's see, a newbie to the forum who quite obviously didn't read up on any of the posters he's debating with makes a number of outright false characterizations and then claims logic and reason? Laughable. .

Hey, a personal attack instead of an argument. Right on schedule.
 
So, does the 'Tea Party' form a third-party option for the lunatic fringe or do they fade away without the Republican Party veneer of legitimacy? I'm saying they disappear as suddenly as they appeared.

The tea party will never be The Tea Party. They do not have the guts, the money, the organization skills nor the intelligence to do so. They will forever be the parasite attached to the host sucking the blood right out of it and not able to survive on its own.
 
The tea party will never be The Tea Party. They do not have the guts, the money, the organization skills nor the intelligence to do so. They will forever be the parasite attached to the host sucking the blood right out of it and not able to survive on its own.
Nothing quite like a leftist invoking a parasite analogy.
 
Eventually it will more likely be modified through amendments. Working toward that end will probably do more for those opposed to some of the potential effects of the law than repeal or government shutdown.

It won't be amended, tweaked or fixed. The Democrats and Obama have no desire to do any of that.

Look, you can put honey on a **** sandwich and it won't change the fact that it's a **** sandwich. Just flush the damned thing down the toilet.
 
Nothing quite like a leftist invoking a parasite analogy.

One can not help but notice that you could find nothing incorrect about its usage and application but simply resorted to a personal attack.
 
HoJ is a big McCain supporter.

I'm just the messenger of the GOP civil war. Don't blame me that the incoherencies of conservatism are catching up with the Republicans.
 
It won't be amended, tweaked or fixed. The Democrats and Obama have no desire to do any of that.

Look, you can put honey on a **** sandwich and it won't change the fact that it's a **** sandwich. Just flush the damned thing down the toilet.

It's going to be amended and tweaked. Almost all major programs in the last 60 years have been.

Too bad, Mycroft. That's the way it's going to go. Crying about it won't change it.
 
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