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California's brown signs bill permitting non-physician abortions [W:307]

Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

1.)That's an impressive list of organizations endorsing that change. I'm not at all sure how the FDA would enter into this, though. (Not that they should, I just don't know.)
2.)While I read that it's one of the safest abortion procedures, we all know that complications can throw any procedure into a cocked hat.

3.)I guess, in the scheme of things, this is just one more incursion into the power and mystic of medical doctors. *shrug* I don't have to stretch too far to think that may be a good thing.

4.)Thanks for the education.

1.) FDA would enter this because many first trimester abortions are done non surgical of course and done by pill, that pill has regulations on it. Whether it be over the counter, prescription, supervised usages etc so a state bill cant side step that.

2.) this i agree with, theres always possible complications from ANYTHING, but that doesnt mean we use overkill to try and limit it, it should follow the same rules as any other meds/procedures in its class follow. Not given special rules.
I also made another post showing how the bill states that there must be certification and training given that goes right in line with everything else.

3.) so far what ive read from the bill nad from the MEDICAL COMMUNITY it all seems like a plus, of course there could be info i dont have.

4.) no problem at all, i only learned about this bill and info yesterday lol I just keep saying IF incase more comes out but i havent found anything
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Jerry Brown is a monster. How dare he refer to himself as a Jesuit.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

"Gov. Jerry Brown of California signed AB 154 on Wednesday, legalizing non-physician abortions in the state.

The legislation, which had been pushed vigorously by Planned Parenthood, had been strongly opposed by pro-life groups and some physicians, arguing that it amounted to legalizing back-alley abortions for profit.

In a statement, Gov. Brown boasted that AB 154 was one of seven bills signed Tuesday "to support the health and well-being of women in California."
California's Brown Signs Bill Permitting Non-Physician Abortions

Lets see. The liberals policies thrown many women out of work and prevent many of them from finding work and require many others of them to take an hours cut. But that's not enough for the liberals. For years they have yelled about preventing back alley abortions and they needed to be conducted legally by doctors. Well, here's progress the liberal way. Take a bad idea, make it worse and then call it a success.

Is this basically allowing non-physicians to hand out the morning after pill? If so, I have some reservations with anyone taking that level of medication without proper supervision, but I'm not sure it raises to the level of back alley abortions. But with that said, the more ideological elements of the pro-abortion crowd often seem to completely overlook the issue of patient safety and see any reasonable restrictions on the practice as being equal to banning it. I guess they're pretty similar to the gun nuts in that sense

Kind of equal measures sad and pathetic
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

bortion by medication or aspiration techniques in the first trimester of pregnancy if he or she holds a license or certificate authorizing him or her to perform the functions necessary for an abortion by medication or aspiration techniques.

While I understand the distinction between this and surgical abortion, I'm not sure that is still a good thing. We are talking about powerful medications that carry serious consequences if they are not used right, and surely few would support handing out such medications with equal risks surrounding them if the subject was anything other than abortion.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Is this basically allowing non-physicians to hand out the morning after pill? If so, I have some reservations with anyone taking that level of medication without proper supervision, but I'm not sure it raises to the level of back alley abortions. But with that said, the more ideological elements of the pro-abortion crowd often seem to completely overlook the issue of patient safety and see any reasonable restrictions on the practice as being equal to banning it. I guess they're pretty similar to the gun nuts in that sense

Kind of equal measures sad and pathetic


uhm this is already the case for the morning after pill as it falls in line with other pills of its classification to be that way. THis has been true for quite some times, actually this year the age availability was just lowered.

SO patient safety isnt being overlooked at all, the FDA controls that and a state bill cant sidestep that.

IM guessing you are confusing somethign else since non of that is factually true.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Timely access to reproductive health services is critical to women's health," Atkins said in a statement. "AB 154 will ensure that no woman has to travel excessively long distances or wait for long periods in order to obtain an early abortion."

reminds me of the type of logic that fueled the Gosnell case. Where any form of oversight was deemed as a means to discourage abortions, while ignoring legitimate questions of patient safety.

Would you support handing out any other powerful medication under such conditions? Also, is this fear of lack of access real, or like the gun nuts, is it born from excessive paranoia?
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

How is it a war on Women when all this does is give woman a safe and legal choice concering their body. If only every war was this bad.

I'm not sure removing doctors from the equation raises safety standards
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Most abortions today are done with a pill. The idea that you need to be a doctor to hand someone a pill is comical. Do you even hear your own words?

You reasoning could apply to almost any medication, but the reason we create the barrier of a doctor to such things, is because those magic little beans can carry serious health implications.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Well this thread backfired badly. Hard to believe conservatives would distort "news"...

not surprising liberals would ignore very real questions of patient safety to push an ideological agenda ...
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Jerry Brown is a monster. How dare he refer to himself as a Jesuit.

I've never hear that he is a Jesuit, but if you'd like I know some Franciscans who have quite a bit of uncomplimentary things to say on the topic of Jesuits.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

"Gov. Jerry Brown of California signed AB 154 on Wednesday, legalizing non-physician abortions in the state.

The legislation, which had been pushed vigorously by Planned Parenthood, had been strongly opposed by pro-life groups and some physicians, arguing that it amounted to legalizing back-alley abortions for profit.

In a statement, Gov. Brown boasted that AB 154 was one of seven bills signed Tuesday "to support the health and well-being of women in California."
California's Brown Signs Bill Permitting Non-Physician Abortions

Lets see. The liberals policies thrown many women out of work and prevent many of them from finding work and require many others of them to take an hours cut. But that's not enough for the liberals. For years they have yelled about preventing back alley abortions and they needed to be conducted legally by doctors. Well, here's progress the liberal way. Take a bad idea, make it worse and then call it a success.

I thought that as a conservative, Breitbart would love the free market being allowed to work. Greater competition means that consumers will be even more protected, because patients will have more options when it comes to their abortions. Bad practitioners will be pressured to improve or go out of business. Even then if he didn't agree with this, the same safety standards apply. And don't tell me that his line isn't just him editorializing. He didn't actually cite anyone, and it was the only opinion in the article. It's his opinion, which he never bothers to back up with evidence.

If you oppose abortions, talk about restricting abortions. Advocating for these extra "safety regulations" and then claiming that you are only looking out for women's safety is a complete load of horse****. If you oppose abortion, fine, talk about that, but the vast majority of laws currently being passed and advocated by pro-lifers goes far and away from keeping women safe and only seeks to restrict abortions.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Which explains why the law requires trained medical professionals...

in what other instances do 'trained medical professionals" besides doctors, get to prescribe and administer drugs? Are physician assistants even authorized to do such, besides in the most routine applications?
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

I've never hear that he is a Jesuit, but if you'd like I know some Franciscans who have quite a bit of uncomplimentary things to say on the topic of Jesuits.

Yeah, unfortunately the Jesuits have a nasty reputation.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

reminds me of the type of logic that fueled the Gosnell case. Where any form of oversight was deemed as a means to discourage abortions, while ignoring legitimate questions of patient safety.

Would you support handing out any other powerful medication under such conditions? Also, is this fear of lack of access real, or like the gun nuts, is it born from excessive paranoia?
Sure...my aunt is a nurse anesthesiologist. That's some pretty powerful medication.

Most states allow Nurse Practitioners to write prescriptions for some very powerful stuff.

In fact in a lot of rural areas Nurse Practitioners are primary care physicians for whole communities.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

uhm this is already the case for the morning after pill as it falls in line with other pills of its classification to be that way. THis has been true for quite some times, actually this year the age availability was just lowered.

SO patient safety isnt being overlooked at all, the FDA controls that and a state bill cant sidestep that.

IM guessing you are confusing somethign else since non of that is factually true.

nothing you wrote addresses my point. You don't show that issues of patient safety are adequately dealt with when a licensed physician is removed from the discussion.

try again
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

in what other instances do 'trained medical professionals" besides doctors, get to prescribe and administer drugs? Are physician assistants even authorized to do such, besides in the most routine applications?

how about EVERYDAY because YES they are.

most time i see a NP and she writes ALL my scrips, i actually havent seen my doctor in awhile, i like her better.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Just think of all the people, the mothers and fathers, the children and grandchildren, the teachers and doctors and entertainers and leaders.....that will never be.

And that's just from ONE abortion.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

Sure...my aunt is a nurse anesthesiologist. That's some pretty powerful medication.

an anesthesiologist goes to school and studies anesthesiology and works in conjunction with a physician.

Most states allow Nurse Practitioners to write prescriptions for some very powerful stuff.

Yes, routine treatments. From my understanding, even medicated abortions carry more risk than a flu shot
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

I thought that as a conservative, Breitbart would love the free market being allowed to work. Greater competition means that consumers will be even more protected, because patients will have more options when it comes to their abortions. Bad practitioners will be pressured to improve or go out of business. Even then if he didn't agree with this, the same safety standards apply. And don't tell me that his line isn't just him editorializing. He didn't actually cite anyone, and it was the only opinion in the article. It's his opinion, which he never bothers to back up with evidence.

If you oppose abortions, talk about restricting abortions. Advocating for these extra "safety regulations" and then claiming that you are only looking out for women's safety is a complete load of horse****. If you oppose abortion, fine, talk about that, but the vast majority of laws currently being passed and advocated by pro-lifers goes far and away from keeping women safe and only seeks to restrict abortions.

First of all, HE is dead.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

how about EVERYDAY because YES they are.

most time i see a NP and she writes ALL my scrips, i actually havent seen my doctor in awhile, i like her better.

learn to argue a logical point: going "yes they are" isn't an argument with any logical merit. Now go "LMAO, blarg, etc," so you can add meaning to your day and we can discuss the topic

PS key: routine
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

nothing you wrote addresses my point. You don't show that issues of patient safety are adequately dealt with when a licensed physician is removed from the discussion.

try again

actually EVERYTHING i wrote destroys your point

no safety is at risk or changed from all other medical situations.


if the mornign after Pill is classified as a TYpe A pill it should follow all the medical and FDA regulations of a Class TYPE A pill not have "special regulations" based on others feelings and state legislation. If thats the case the FDA is not doing its job.

sorry, what actually happened is this bill stopped the un-needed special treatment of these procedures that were not MEDICALLY required.

FDA controls the safety, and is STILL controlling the saftey, that hasnt changed
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

learn to argue a logical point: going "yes they are" isn't an argument with any logical merit. Now go "LMAO, blarg, etc," so you can add meaning to your day and we can discuss the topic
there is no "argument" i provided FACTS
translation: your post failed because they factually can and do every day and safety remains the same. nice try but you lashing out doesnt change anything only further exposes you and entertains me.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

in what other instances do 'trained medical professionals" besides doctors, get to prescribe and administer drugs? Are physician assistants even authorized to do such, besides in the most routine applications?

You won't like this answer, and it is why you should look things up yourself: Medical prescription - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Physician assistants, nurse practicioners, certified nurse-midwives in all 50 states. Kinda sounds like the list from the law...
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

actually EVERYTHING i wrote destroys your point

No it doesn't. I understand you don't understand why, but your short comings really are not relevent



FDA controls the safety, and is STILL controlling the saftey, that hasnt changed

you're asserting the FDA is above politics, but they have a long history of being political.
 
Re: Liberals war on women takes big advance

You won't like this answer, and it is why you should look things up yourself: Medical prescription - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Physician assistants, nurse practicioners, certified nurse-midwives in all 50 states. Kinda sounds like the list from the law...

you mean the very thing I mentioned in the post you quoted?

http://www.debatepolitics.com/break...women-takes-big-advance-4.html#post1062409500

but again, they do not handle all such medications, besides those with very low risk of complication and safety. So why would I get upset, when it's a point I already brought up?
 
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