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Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown[W:181]

Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Oftencold said:
When you were a kid, did you ever get tormented by a bully who dared you to do anything about it, just because the bully could? I think that this is much the same.
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Don't suppose I catch your meaning...so I guess, no...;)
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

ChezC3 said:
Don't suppose I catch your meaning...so I guess, no...;)
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I thought it was obvious. The priests and other chaplains have agreed to perform their religious for free in may cases. Clearly, the most likely reason for them to be barred from doing so, is to torment people who are in no position to fight back. No rational material benefit comes to mind to suggest other motivation.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

ChezC3 said:
WORLD | Vital Signs: Government approves tax-funded abortions | Alissa Robertson | Oct. 7, 2013

but that wasn't the point...
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Oh that is awesome, congress can have abortions paid for by health insurance but we can't. That is such BS. Every woman should have abortions covered under their health care. But anyways, onto the topic.


ChezC3 said:
No, and it wasn't fear mongering it was a statement that these people volunteer and put their life on the line, and because you have some sucka in office who has a hissy fit, they can't get what I remember for some was a very important part of their week. This does lead to low morale. Your blatant disregard for the Armed Services well being, your frankly disgusting indifference to what many find and hold most valuable is appalling beyond words, which is why I made an exaggerated claim showing a possible end result to what can only be viewed as obtuse and ungrateful behavior

It seems bad, only because you didn't understand. Makes your brainy hurt, I know...
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You can insult me all you want, but it still is not essential. If that is something you wish to provide to the soldiers, and I agree with a functioning government it should be, you need to put the government back to a functional state and get a budget for it. If there is no budget for it then they are going to have to do it on their own. You can be as mad at that as you want, but that is what the republicans did when they shut down the government. i know they wanted things they liked to stay around, but no it should be uncomfortable for them to make this stand. Just like you should have to actually get up and talk for a filibuster. You take the pain for the sacrifice. There should be more things shut down. There should be no congressional staff. there should be no subway running back and forth for their personal use like there is now. The military should be pulled back out of our wars. No more subsidies or tax breaks. Shut down social security, medicare, welfare and the schools. They are all non-essential. We would have an agreement by now if we had a real shutdown because boehner and company would be strung up outside of congress.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Oftencold said:
I thought it was obvious. The priests and other chaplains have agreed to perform their religious for free in may cases. Clearly, the most likely reason for them to be barred from doing so, is to torment people who are in no position to fight back. No rational material benefit comes to mind to suggest other motivation.
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Well, at 2pm it would have been...
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

tererun said:
You can insult me all you want, but it still is not essential. If that is something you wish to provide to the soldiers, and I agree with a functioning government it should be, you need to put the government back to a functional state and get a budget for it. If there is no budget for it then they are going to have to do it on their own. You can be as mad at that as you want, but that is what the republicans did when they shut down the government. i know they wanted things they liked to stay around, but no it should be uncomfortable for them to make this stand. Just like you should have to actually get up and talk for a filibuster. You take the pain for the sacrifice. There should be more things shut down. There should be no congressional staff. there should be no subway running back and forth for their personal use like there is now. The military should be pulled back out of our wars. No more subsidies or tax breaks. Shut down social security, medicare, welfare and the schools. They are all non-essential. We would have an agreement by now if we had a real shutdown because boehner and company would be strung up outside of congress.
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Doesn't matter, it was going to be done on a voluntary basis, which as I shown in another post, along with the NPS is permissible, but cry baby Barry and his whiny band of loony leftys didn't want to allow it, thought it was better to punish American citizens and military. He's a disgrace.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

ChezC3 said:
Doesn't matter, it was going to be done on a voluntary basis, which as I shown in another post, along with the NPS is permissible, but cry baby Barry and his whiny band of loony leftys didn't want to allow it, thought it was better to punish American citizens and military. He's a disgrace.
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That is nice and all but he has yet to actually approve a budget or not. he has not vetoed anything. All he has done is shut some things down to comply with the budget. If you give him a budget we can get those things back. I do not see the blame being on him because the republicans took the money to do things away. It is not like they gave him the money and he shut those things down. He has to shut things down because they simply are not free. This is what a shutdown should be all around. I will agree that there are other things that should be shut down, but I am not saying this should stay open when the republicans are holding everything hostage. talk to them about getting things going. If Obama gets the budget which is the job of congress then he will do those things again. If he gets a budget and decides to not use it to fund these things i will join you in your anger because he would not be doing his job.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Bronson said:
Yea and pigs fly Anyone who believes any of this is random is naive and should not be taken seriously They wired the WW2 memorial shut. Capital Police were used to pickup trash after an illegal alien rally while Vietnam vets were handcuffed and sent to jail for visiting their memorial You Obot shills have no shame and lack self awareness
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Just asking what if your source did say that differences in how different agencies receive their funding had an impact on whether or not that agency was currently operating. What then?
Just asking.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

tererun said:
That is nice and all but he has yet to actually approve a budget or not. he has not vetoed anything. All he has done is shut some things down to comply with the budget. If you give him a budget we can get those things back. I do not see the blame being on him because the republicans took the money to do things away. It is not like they gave him the money and he shut those things down. He has to shut things down because they simply are not free. This is what a shutdown should be all around. I will agree that there are other things that should be shut down, but I am not saying this should stay open when the republicans are holding everything hostage. talk to them about getting things going. If Obama gets the budget which is the job of congress then he will do those things again. If he gets a budget and decides to not use it to fund these things i will join you in your anger because he would not be doing his job.
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If in the space of 30 seconds I found that it was permissible to allow volunteers to handle things he damn well sure knew, he knew and he ignored it. He'd rather be a vindictive scumbag and hurt American citizens and our military. 1/10 of the resources he spent to attack American citizens would have provided the more than enough people to properly supervise volunteer staff...
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Mason66 said:
The golf course is on Federal land and we have seen that even though places are privately funded, they are closed because they are on Federal land. Why should the golf course be different?
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Land that isn't closed due to the shutdown though.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

roguenuke said:
Land that isn't closed due to the shutdown though.
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Right, so it is selective.

The other federal land didn't need to be closed, but it was.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

roguenuke said:
This isn't an actual military chaplain. He is a contracted priest. And the only info on this is coming from basically the same story being repeated over and over. Nothing about where the actual chaplains are.

And no service member is guaranteed access to chaplains whenever. Military needs outweigh a person's religious beliefs whenever they conflict. In this case, the conflict is really not that big of a deal since they are free to go somewhere else if they absolutely need to talk to a priest/chaplain.
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A catholic priest at no time will turn a way a follower in need. Period and for the government to step in and involve itself in that is shameful.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

ChezC3 said:
Unless the Military changed drastically in the almost 20 years I've been gone, on Duty days you can't leave the base.
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Which means you wait until you get off duty. Sailors only have duty one day (unless they have weekend duty for some commands, but they would then have it Sat and Sun, which means Mon they would be free to go to religious services offbase). There are plenty of watches that onduty personnel cannot leave the ship for and they are 24 hour watches. (On my ship, on duty meant we weren't supposed to leave the ship without permission that was conservatively given anyway, even just going on base, no matter which watches we had.) This would mean plenty of sailors wouldn't be able to go to those religious services, no matter where they are. If there is a policy though that members could leave the ship for religious services (not required as a policy though), I'm willing to bet that they would make exceptions for leaving the base though, within reason, for those members to attend civilian services.

ChezC3 said:
the article and the law that Redress(had to read that part to be in on the joke I suppose) thinks I should have known about or am lying that I didn't know about says you can go to jail even if you are preforming those functions voluntary
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The law exists and they cannot perform those functions onbase as official clergy even voluntarily. It goes into liability.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

CRUE CAB said:
A catholic priest at no time will turn a way a follower in need. Period and for the government to step in and involve itself in that is shameful.
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And being contracted, it means he should have access to a church offbase where they could go. He has no right to be on base during a shutdown to begin with, even if he is contracted to do work during non-shutdown times. So his services should be done offbase and he would have no problem fulfilling the obligations of his faith.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Mason66 said:
Right, so it is selective.

The other federal land didn't need to be closed, but it was.
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It did not need to be open either. And there are laws already in place (apparently) pertaining to shutdowns and how they operate. You can complain all you want, but it doesn't change anything. This is a joint effort by Congress that resulted in this. Obama had little to do with any of it, no matter how much people wish to blame him. I can't stand Obamacare either (I want an NHC), but that doesn't mean that I will place blame on things like this because I understand that this is part of how our government works. It involves plenty more than just what some believe they know, including a big one being liability of the government for land they own and how this could be a problem during a shutdown where bills are not getting paid.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Mason66 said:
I know what I wrote. What do you want links to?
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an example validating your claim ...
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

roguenuke said:
And being contracted, it means he should have access to a church offbase where they could go. He has no right to be on base during a shutdown to begin with, even if he is contracted to do work during non-shutdown times. So his services should be done offbase and he would have no problem fulfilling the obligations of his faith.
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Typical of a religion haters view of things.
We ask people in the service to give years of their lives and may need to put said lives at risk, yet lets jerk them around over issues of faith.
Welcome to 2013 I guess.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

ChezC3 said:
If in the space of 30 seconds I found that it was permissible to allow volunteers to handle things he damn well sure knew, he knew and he ignored it. He'd rather be a vindictive scumbag and hurt American citizens and our military. 1/10 of the resources he spent to attack American citizens would have provided the more than enough people to properly supervise volunteer staff...
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Yeah, it is called making people feel the pain of the shutdown the republicans have forced upon us. I am perfectly fine with that. It should be painful. You should not use the budget to try and remove things you cannot remove otherwise. They cannot get Obamacare voted out and it is not OK to attach it to strip it from everything else. We fund the programs we pass and that is it. If the republicans do not like it they can try to repeal obamacare through the proper channels. Yes, I am perfectly fine with you being bothered because you do not get your perks while you pitch your fit. I totally agree with Obama making it hard on the crying baby republicans in the house. They need a good time out. Let them cry it out.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Hatuey said:
Bottoms up Kobie!
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Drinking game?

I'm starting a pool for how many posts parroting the GOP line before the inevitable "I'm not a Republican" speech.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

So things the right wants funded: White House tours (OUTRAGE!), Blue Angels, National Parks, religious services (as long as they're not for Muslims)...

Then they'll go on about fiscal responsibility :lamo
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

ChezC3 said:
What's further after doing that 30 sec fact check the law does allow for volunteers if specifically authorized. And shock me shock me, what was specifically authorized in the past? THE NATIONAL PARK SERVICE.

The law doesn't ban all voluntary serivce only voluntary service which could lead to a claim against the government for future compensation.


Which wouldn't be the case in this for instance


http://www.bsnlawfirm.com/newsletter/OP0413_Natter.pdf


So yes, my original post is correct. He is a punitive, snot nosed SOB...
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You did not read your source well. Exceptions can be made...by congress. The president does not have that authority. So again, you are complaining that the president is following the law.
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Oftencold said:
I thought it was obvious. The priests and other chaplains have agreed to perform their religious for free in may cases. Clearly, the most likely reason for them to be barred from doing so, is to torment people who are in no position to fight back. No rational material benefit comes to mind to suggest other motivation.
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Or it could be because of the law. I know, fact checking is hard...
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Simon W. Moon said:
Just asking what if your source did say that differences in how different agencies receive their funding had an impact on whether or not that agency was currently operating. What then?
Just asking.
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They wired a WW2 Memorial shut that is privately funded. It's an open park. They blocked a Vietnam Memorial that is a wall at a park.

It takes more resources to close and wire shut these sites than it ever did to run them

Wake up

You need to be asking yourself why Obama would shut these WW2 vets out of their memorial. Yea we know. Obama is never responsible for anything. He'd NEVER use Government tools for political purposes. Yea yea yea ok Joseph whatever
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

tererun said:
Yeah, it is called making people feel the pain of the shutdown the republicans have forced upon us. I am perfectly fine with that. It should be painful. You should not use the budget to try and remove things you cannot remove otherwise. They cannot get Obamacare voted out and it is not OK to attach it to strip it from everything else. We fund the programs we pass and that is it. If the republicans do not like it they can try to repeal obamacare through the proper channels. Yes, I am perfectly fine with you being bothered because you do not get your perks while you pitch your fit. I totally agree with Obama making it hard on the crying baby republicans in the house. They need a good time out. Let them cry it out.
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Ah, the republicans. Yea, sure. Who is president? Who said to make it hurt? Who wont negotiate? Yea, its the republicans. Pffffft
 
Re: Priests Risk Arrest for Offering Sacraments to Catholic Troops During Shutdown

Bronson said:
They wired a WW2 Memorial shut that is privately funded. It's an open park. They blocked a Vietnam Memorial that is a wall at a park.

It takes more resources to close and wire shut these sites than it ever did to run them

Wake up

You need to be asking yourself why Obama would shut these WW2 vets out of their memorial. Yea we know. Obama is never responsible for anything. He'd NEVER use Government tools for political purposes. Yea yea yea ok Joseph whatever
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Its an opportunity for Obama to let the nation know what he really feels about our vets. Thats what its all about.
 
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