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House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures[W:120]

Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

CanadaJohn said:
... I hope for your sake and your country's sake that you're even marginally right, but I doubt it.
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As time goes on CBO expects that the law will cut the deficit by around a trillion dollars in its second decade.


The law is expected to spend a bit over $1 trillion in the next 10 years.
The law's spending cuts -- many of which fall on Medicare -- and tax increases are expected to either save or raise a bit more than that, which is why the Congressional Budget Office estimates that it will slightly reduce the deficit. (There's been some confusion on this point lately, but no, the CBO has not changed its mind about this.) As time goes on, the savings are projected to grow more quickly than the spending, and CBO expects that the law will cut the deficit by around a trillion dollars in its second decade. Here's its graph, which covers the period between 2012 and 2021:
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read more:
11 facts about the Affordable Care Act
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

TheDemSocialist said:
There is no security at our national monuments when they are open? Seriously? I was at DC 2 summers ago i saw many park rangers at just about every big monument...
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The park rangers are mostly unarmed and are not there primarily for security.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

Somerville said:
I disagree with your version of history.
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Based on your post, it appears you do disagree with it...then again, you seem to have a tenuous grasp for any version of reality since you seem to think that the thousand page bill, covering all manners of provisions and regulations, that is the ACA is basically "individual mandate" since all your post did was attempt to tie a singular individuals support of something that ALSO included an individual mandate to being broad republican support for the entire "Framework" of ALL of the ACA.

Perhaps if you meant JUST the mandate you should've claimed JUST the mandate, you claimed the ACA as a whole.

Also, I'm having issues understanding the consistency of some people so just wanting to clear something up....are you suggesting a legislative action, proposed by a few members of a party, but ultimately failing to actually be successful at garnering support and passing through the congress is legitimately able to be claimed as being a "Framework" created by "The party" in question?

Because if so....just to stay with the asinine consistency of your argument, the withholding of government funding if a passed legislative action isn't funded is simply building off "the framework" of "the democrats" in 2007.
 
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Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
As time goes on CBO expects that the law will cut the deficit by around a trillion dollars in its second decade.



read more:
11 facts about the Affordable Care Act
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Again - I prefer the President's own words against the report of the CBO, not someone's interpretation of the report of the CBO. Even if I accept the WP interpretation, we have the CBO saying the ACA will cost the government $1.2 trillion between 2012 and 2022 and the WP says it will cut the deficit by "around" $1 trillion in the second decade. I'm not big on "around" estimates, but that still would make the first two decades of the ACA cost the government $200 billion net. Even in your best case scenario, the President lied to you and American either out of stupidity, or more likely out or a need to mislead the American people.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

head of joaquin said:
Jesus. The ACA is based almost exclusively on Romeycare. Romney care is an idea that was spawned by conservative think tanks, espoused by conservative blowhards like Gingrich, and passed by a conservative governor. Weirdly it doesn't work that bad.

Now, get back to your ahistorical meme that somehow ACA isn't a conservative program meant to avoid single payer.
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I don't remember the part of Romneycare that drove up costs 60-100% on those under 35 by restricting medical underwriting and cut $716 billion in reimbursements to Medicare. Somehow I also seemed to have missed the part of Romneycare that enacted any new taxes. Perhaps you could remind me?
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

Zyphlin said:
Based on your post, it appears you do disagree with it...then again, you seem to have a tenuous grasp for any version of reality since you seem to think that the thousand page bill, covering all manners of provisions and regulations, that is the ACA is basically "individual mandate" since all your post did was attempt to tie a singular individuals support of something that ALSO included an individual mandate to being broad republican support for the entire "Framework" of ALL of the ACA.

Perhaps if you meant JUST the mandate you should've claimed JUST the mandate, you claimed the ACA as a whole.

Also, I'm having issues understanding the consistency of some people so just wanting to clear something up....are you suggesting a legislative action, proposed by a few members of a party, but ultimately failing to actually be successful at garnering support and passing through the congress is legitimately able to be claimed as being a "Framework" created by "The party" in question?

Because if so....just to stay with the asinine consistency of your argument, the withholding of government funding if a passed legislative action isn't funded is simply building off "the framework" of "the democrats" in 2007.
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Try and twist it as you will, the basic concept of the ACA is quite close to that of the Heritage Foundation plan of 1992. Of course with the additional experience of Romneycare in Massachusetts.

As a socialist, I would much prefer the single-payer system found in most to the developed nations but it appears to be so frightening to the right, they will continue to do everything possible to obstruct improving the health of American citizens. Free market capitalism is not the way to get the best results in healthcare.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

ReformCollege said:
I don't remember the part of Romneycare that drove up costs 60-100% on those under 35 by restricting medical underwriting and cut $716 billion in reimbursements to Medicare. Somehow I also seemed to have missed the part of Romneycare that enacted any new taxes. Perhaps you could remind me?
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Since your premise is a pure fabrication, it explains why you don't remember it.

By the way:

http://www.salon.com/2012/06/29/how_romneycare_is_like_obamacare_on_taxes/

In 2008, when Romney was running for president for the first time, ABC News host Charlie Gibson asked him during a New Hampshire debate, “Governor … you imposed tax penalties in Massachusetts?” Romney replied, “Yes, we said, look, if people can afford to buy it, either buy the insurance or pay your own way; don’t be free riders.” It was the same debate in which he infamously declared, “I like mandates.”

In 2006, Romney explained in a Powerpoint presentation how the state would enforce his mandate. “We will withhold any of their tax refund” for people who don’t purchase insurance, he said. The former governor said the same thing in a 2009 interview with CNN: “There are a number of ways to encourage people to get insurance, and what we did, we said ‘you’re going to lose a tax exemption if you don’t have insurance.

Maybe you should check the facts before repeating the rightwing memo on this.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

head of joaquin said:
Since your premise is a pure fabrication, it explains why you don't remember it.

By the way:

How Romneycare is like Obamacare on taxes - Salon.com

In 2008, when Romney was running for president for the first time, ABC News host Charlie Gibson asked him during a New Hampshire debate, “Governor … you imposed tax penalties in Massachusetts?” Romney replied, “Yes, we said, look, if people can afford to buy it, either buy the insurance or pay your own way; don’t be free riders.” It was the same debate in which he infamously declared, “I like mandates.”

In 2006, Romney explained in a Powerpoint presentation how the state would enforce his mandate. “We will withhold any of their tax refund” for people who don’t purchase insurance, he said. The former governor said the same thing in a 2009 interview with CNN: “There are a number of ways to encourage people to get insurance, and what we did, we said ‘you’re going to lose a tax exemption if you don’t have insurance.

Maybe you should check the facts before repeating the rightwing memo on this.
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What are you talking about? Penalties aren't defined as taxes under the Mass state constitution. Besides, if the penalties for the ACA were the ONLY costs pushed on the public... you might have a point.

Anyways, everything you just said is a red herring to the highest degree. I never said anything about the individual mandate, so why did you bring it up? Its not the similarities we are discussing here... but the differences. And the differences ARE restriction of medical underwriting, cuts to reimbursement, and the overall cost of the competitive laws. That is where you lost this debate, and for you to make this about mandates (which I never brought up) is COMPLETELY dishonest.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

CanadaJohn said:
Again - I prefer the President's own words against the report of the CBO, not someone's interpretation of the report of the CBO. ...
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Quote Originally Posted by CanadaJohn View Post
...

"This legislation will also lower costs for families and for businesses and for the federal government, reducing our deficit by over $1 trillion in the next two decades. ..."

President Barack Obama Remarks by the President and Vice President at Signing of the Health Insurance Reform Bill The White House, The Office of the Press Secretary March 23, 2010
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The way I read the President's quote is that he said that within two decades the ACA will reduce the deficit by over $1 trillion.

According to the article I posted the figure for the deficit reduction after two decades is around a trillion..

As time goes on, the savings are projected to grow more quickly than the spending, and CBO expects that the law.will
cut the deficit by around a trillion dollars in its second decade.
Click to expand...

11 facts about the Affordable Care Act

So I will agree maybe he was off by a few billion.
 
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Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

ReformCollege said:
What are you talking about? Penalties aren't defined as taxes under the Mass state constitution. Besides, if the penalties for the ACA were the ONLY costs pushed on the public... you might have a point.

Anyways, everything you just said is a red herring to the highest degree. I never said anything about the individual mandate, so why did you bring it up? Its not the similarities we are discussing here... but the differences. And the differences ARE restriction of medical underwriting, cuts to reimbursement, and the overall cost of the competitive laws. That is where you lost this debate, and for you to make this about mandates (which I never brought up) is COMPLETELY dishonest.
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Do you feel better when you quibble and play pretend?

Bottomline: ACA is Romney and Romneycare is a conservative republican program from start to finish.

Now, spin away and hope nobody notices.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

radcen said:
That scenic pull-out at Mt Rushmore never had security. Why does it suddenly need it now?

And don't spout the party line about channeling traffic. That's clearly a ruse as it was never necessary before, either.

Explain that one. (Minnie616 apparently couldn't and gave up.)
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Nope I did not give up...

Fox news reports that: There may have may have been a misunderstanding because Mount Rushmore park officials say the cones were put up to channel traffic to viewing areas.

Perhaps it was a misunderstanding.

The Argus Leader reports that state officials were told they were put up to "channel cars" into certain viewing areas.
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Some of the cones were later taken down. [/QUOTE]

7 things the government shut down that saved practically nothing | Fox News
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

head of joaquin said:
Do you feel better when you quibble and play pretend?

Bottomline: ACA is Romney and Romneycare is a conservative republican program from start to finish.

Now, spin away and hope nobody notices.
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No it is isn't. If it was Romney all the way, then it wouldn't have cuts to medicare reimbursement, new taxes, and restrictions to medical underwriting. Those are Obama all the way. Stop pretending.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

ReformCollege said:
I don't remember the part of Romneycare that drove up costs 60-100% on those under 35 by restricting medical underwriting and cut $716 billion in reimbursements to Medicare. Somehow I also seemed to have missed the part of Romneycare that enacted any new taxes. Perhaps you could remind me?
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From this Forbes article:

On April 12, 2006, Massachusetts governor and now presidential candidate Mitt Romney happily signed the landmark Massachusetts Healthcare Reform Act into law at historic Faneuil Hall. As a result, the state, known as a world class medical center, has the most affordable healthcare insurance in the country. It’s healthcare costs are high, but that no longer impedes 99% of the state from having affordable coverage, according to the Blue Cross Blue Shield Foundation, the non profit independent foundation of private state insurance firm Blue Cross & Blue Shield.

Every resident is required by law to have insurance, or pay a fine. To date, 99% of the state’s residents have health insurance, up from around 90% before healthcare reform.
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If ObamaCare Is So Bad, How Does RomneyCare Survive? - Forbes
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

ReformCollege said:
No it is isn't. If it was Romney all the way, then it wouldn't have cuts to medicare reimbursement, new taxes, and restrictions to medical underwriting. Those are Obama all the way. Stop pretending.
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Romneycare imposed new taxes. But since you deny reality, there's no helping you. You're in late stage Obamaphobia. A sad case.


How Romneycare is like Obamacare on taxes - Salon.com

What One Massachusetts Tax Watchdog Says About 'RomneyCare' - Forbes

Romneycare Raised Taxes | ThinkProgress
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

ReformCollege said:
You should reread what I said. Complete dodge.
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Not really.
Both Obamacare and Romneycare have individual mandates and fines/taxes if citizens do not buy healthcare.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

head of joaquin said:
Romneycare imposed new taxes. But since you deny reality, there's no helping you. You're in late stage Obamaphobia. A sad case.


How Romneycare is like Obamacare on taxes - Salon.com

What One Massachusetts Tax Watchdog Says About 'RomneyCare' - Forbes

Romneycare Raised Taxes | ThinkProgress
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It seems you don't understand the difference between fees/penalties, and taxes. Seems I should just cut this conversation now, because nothing I'm going to say is going to get it through to you.....
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
Not really.
Both Obamacare and Romneycare have individual mandates and fines/taxes if citizens do not buy healthcare.
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You're right. And Obamacare also has restrictions on medical underwriting, new taxes, and cuts to Medicare reimbursement. As well as far more comprehensive coverage requirements. So don't pretend like they are the same law, that's like pretending 1=2 because they are both an integer greater then 0.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
The way I read the President's quote is that he said that within two decades the ACA will reduce the deficit by over $1 trillion.

According to the article I posted the figure for the deficit reduction after two decades is around a trillion..



11 facts about the Affordable Care Act

So I will agree maybe he was off by a few billion.
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Come-on Minnie - it's simple math. If it costs the country $1.2 trillion between 2012 and 2022, it would have to bring in $2.2 trillion in the second decade for the President to be accurate and truthful. Even your rosy liberal "journalists" claim that it will reduce the "deficit", not "debt", by $1 trillion in the second decade remains a net cost to the country of $200 billion over those 20 years. Now how is that "off by a few billion" unless you consider $1.2 trillion "a few billion"?

I considered your posts to be intellectually honest attempts at discussion but these past ones on this thread have me questioning why I accepted your interpretations on other threads. I'll be far more skeptical of your "facts" in the future.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

CanadaJohn said:
Come-on Minnie - it's simple math. If it costs the country $1.2 trillion between 2012 and 2022, it would have to bring in $2.2 trillion in the second decade for the President to be accurate and truthful. Even your rosy liberal "journalists" claim that it will reduce the "deficit", not "debt", by $1 trillion in the second decade remains a net cost to the country of $200 billion over those 20 years. Now how is that "off by a few billion" unless you consider $1.2 trillion "a few billion"?

I considered your posts to be intellectually honest attempts at discussion but these past ones on this thread have me questioning why I accepted your interpretations on other threads. I'll be far more skeptical of your "facts" in the future.
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Apparently you do you do not understand how the cost will brought down.

You are using the figures at face value.

By about 2017 , 2018 the fees and the savings will make up for monies spent and the USA will be lower than the deficit neural mark. take a look at the graph in the article I linked.
The following 10 years " about another 1 trillion" will be saved. Therefore our deficit will have been reduced by one trillion in 20 years time.
 
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Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

minnie616 said:
Apparently you do you do not understand how the cost will brought down.

You are using the figures at face value.

By about 2017 , 2018 the fees and the savings will make up for monies spent and the USA will be lower than the deficit neural mark. take a look at the graph in the article I linked.
The following 10 years " about another 1 trillion" will be saved. Therefore our deficit will have been reduced by one trillion in 20 years time.
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The law will fail by then. Your graph is based on far too rosy assumptions that I can tell you will not come true. Sorry.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

ReformCollege said:
You're right. And Obamacare also has restrictions on medical underwriting, new taxes, and cuts to Medicare reimbursement. As well as far more comprehensive coverage requirements. So don't pretend like they are the same law, ....
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As far requirements goes for individuals Romneycare and Obamacare are basically the same. Both require almost all US citizens
( it is problematic to insure the homeless and individuals who are " off the grid ") to buy health insurance or pay a fine/ fee.

Obamacare has more regulations for health care providers, hospitals, nursing homes, doctors, and insurance companies because the ACA is also trying to make medical care costs more affordable.
 
Re: House Republicans seek probe of D.C. monument closures

jonny5 said:
Then why not just pay those people to not do that?
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Liability is one reason.
I think it has already been mentioned.
 
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