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Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government [W:100]

Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

calamity said:
The GOP has been winning the messaging battle for a couple decades now. Hell, they even have their very own TV Network.
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Yeah, it's my major gripe with the Democrats. They think that being rational and factual wins elections. It doesn't. It's good to be rational and it's good to have fact on your side, but that's not enough. You need to have a narrative and since we're dealing with the rightwing noise machine, you need to be able to delegitimize it.

At that the Democrats have simply been too lackadaisical. Americans like politicians who fight for them, and pommel the other side. And you know, they have a right to like that. Politics isn't for Vulcans.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

Thrilla said:
what makes you believe an up/down vote would end it?

the House passed their CR is an up/down vote already...and Democrats didn't like the outcome.


negotiation is the very mechanism that operates our government... why would Obama negotiate?.. well, because that's how impasses are solved... that is the job of every elected politician.

a politician saying he won't negotiate is the same exact thing as saying " I will not do the job i was elected to do"
the People want negotiations... they want **** solved
it's only hardcore fanatical Democrats who are supportive of these politicians not doing their job.

I can't stand either party and most of there politicians... and even i want them to sit down, be adults, and talk.
( I also want the LP to capitalize on all these grown children throwing tantrums... but that's neither here nor there)

he might just win everything he is wanting... in return for future concessions.
we won't know how it all turns out until he decides to do his job.. and Reid does his job.. and Beohner does his job.
we'll have to get through all this political posturing bull**** first, though.
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There hasn't been an up/down vote....and Boner won't do it because he knows that if they put an up/down vote, enough Republicans would side with the Democrats to fund to budget without the games that the teabaggers want to play.

You never negotiate with extortionists. It sets bad precedent and Obama is not going to give into the teabaggers extortion demands. Sorry...it isn't going to happen. Not with 80% of the American public on our side.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

disneydude said:
There hasn't been an up/down vote....and Boner won't do it because he knows that if they put an up/down vote, enough Republicans would side with the Democrats to fund to budget without the games that the teabaggers want to play.

You never negotiate with extortionists. It sets bad precedent and Obama is not going to give into the teabaggers extortion demands. Sorry...it isn't going to happen. Not with 80% of the American public on our side.
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I find that 80% mark a bit difficult to come by, unless you want to stretch disapproval of shutting down government over the ACA by several percentage points. Presidential favor in this situation was at perhaps 55%. According to a CBS poll published today, an overwhelming majority wanted a compromise.

Most Americans want compromise. Majorities think the President and the Democrats in Congress (76 percent) and the Republicans in Congress (78 percent) should compromise in order to come to an agreement on the budget.
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http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-250_162-57605822/poll-americans-not-happy-about-shutdown-more-blame-gop/

In other words, while an overwhelming majority of the public does not want government shutdowns over the ACA, and blame the GOP for doing so, an overwhelming majority want there to be a compromise on the matter.
 
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Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

They are as fraudulent as the radio talk show hosts.

It's all about them, while they spin the lies that the rabble wants to hear.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

head of joaquin said:
Negotiations in the mouths of tea partiers means "kill Obamacare". That's not going to happen. They lost. Get over it.

Democrats in the Senate have already agreed to the numbers, so it isn't about that. But you know that. The GOP position is a farce, like conservatism itself.
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Apparently, you are unaware of the facts here. The last CR proposed only gave individuals a one year reprieve on the mandate and required Congress and staffers would be required to participate in the program just as an average American would. So how does that "kill Obamacare?"
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

Excon said:
Get thet facts straight.
It was to representatives discussing their surprise with the false narrative that they were not willing to compromise, when clearly they were.



Are you really stupid enough to think that the GOP has your best interests at heart as they do in this instance?
Wait, don't answer that....
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Good Lord, I said "don't answer" and you still did....

What's that adage about opening your mouth and removing all doubt?
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

CycloneWanderer said:
Those aren't mutually exclusive. He could be hyper-partisan and not understand the concept of catching someone on a hot mic.
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The same could be said of most of the defenders here.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

head of joaquin said:
We disagree. Vulcan's don't vote in our elections. You have to convince people sitting around kitchen tables. The GOP uses tried and try framing techniques and win. The Democrats must do the same. Otherwise it's bringing a knife to a gun fight.

This isn't a debating society with Earl of Queensberry rules. It's about the future of our nation and the well-being of millions of people, most of them underrepresented and underpaid. So it's OK to use techniques that work to get votes even if they don't follow Spoke's logic. Indeed, it's required.
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Unfortunately, at the end of the day, the techniques in play result in false beliefs and support for things folks wouldn't support if they actually understood the issue.

I do not believe the American people would approve of currently practised persuasion science if they understood its potency.

Nobody likes to be manipulated. Especially when its not just an "art" but the application of cognitive neuroscience.

People who understand how our brain functions better than we do, using that knowledge to manipulate us.

High tech lying. Bad juju.
 
Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government S

head of joaquin said:
Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shutdown Concerns


The total cynicism of the GOP exposed.
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I don't get what they said that was wrong??

Most of the time when these politicians get caught with a hot mic they are sayin something crooked.

Meanwhile here these guys get "caught" showing that they have confidence because they are correct in their position.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

head of joaquin said:
I know cynicism is something you like to normalize. I think most American and most progressive politicians are sincere people who try to do what's best for the country.

But you need to stick with the cynicism meme, I know. It's your thing.

But I'll just note again: cynicism is a tool of the right. It's just a posture with no real thought to it. I suppose it makes some people feel superior or something.
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funniest lie on DP in the last month
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

head of joaquin said:
BWHAHHAHAHA!

You realize that that's the "message" that they say they want to "keep saying" because they hope it will help in the polls.

You really don't realize that. BWHAHAHAAHH!
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hahaha - Bronson, rocketman and lethereff put a 'like' on that post too. It seems Excon is not the only comprehensionally challenged person here :rofl
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

head of joaquin said:
The total cynicism of the GOP exposed.
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I have to say, this seems pretty normal to me. I have no doubt the Democrats routinely discuss strategy and tactics in similar terms, and think in terms of winning, losing, saving face and so forth.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

American said:
Oh looky, a gotcha thread. :lol:
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It didn't even catch them in anything bad. This was pretty standard fare. Why? Because all they really said was that they thought they could win this shutdown debate by pushing the issue of compromise-which we already knew about.

In a rather sad way, it was like that hot mic moment with Obama and Putin. Yes, apparently it is absolutely nuts that winning an election grants a President more maneuverability in diplomatic relations. If folks didn't think Kennedy and Khrushchev talked that way, well, we already know​ they did.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

Visbek said:
I have to say, this seems pretty normal to me. I have no doubt the Democrats routinely discuss strategy and tactics in similar terms, and think in terms of winning, losing, saving face and so forth.
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Of course. They haven't said anything that television anchors and analysts aren't already thinking and which their opponents aren't also considering. The whole "it's not about the people" argument is just nonsense.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

rocket88 said:
Good Lord, I said "don't answer" and you still did....
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Good lord, like you get to dictate to others what they can or can not do. :doh


rocket88 said:
What's that adage about opening your mouth and removing all doubt?
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I believe that adage is, since that shoe fits you well, you are wearing it.
 
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Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government...

Fishstyx said:
Apparently, you are unaware of the facts here. The last CR proposed only gave individuals a one year reprieve on the mandate and required Congress and staffers would be required to participate in the program just as an average American would. So how does that "kill Obamacare?"
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Keep pretending. Obamacare depends on the individual mandate to work. Even went to the Supreme Court. But you know that. It's all a pretense.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

What if...? said:
Unfortunately, at the end of the day, the techniques in play result in false beliefs and support for things folks wouldn't support if they actually understood the issue.

I do not believe the American people would approve of currently practised persuasion science if they understood its potency.

Nobody likes to be manipulated. Especially when its not just an "art" but the application of cognitive neuroscience.

People who understand how our brain functions better than we do, using that knowledge to manipulate us.

High tech lying. Bad juju.
Click to expand...

I thinks it just language, and unless it's used persuasively, the bad guys win. Cf Hitler.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

American said:
Oh looky, a gotcha thread. :lol:
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Yeah, reporting on what tea baggers actually believe is unfair in the minds of rightwingers.
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government S

BmanMcfly said:
I don't get what they said that was wrong??

Most of the time when these politicians get caught with a hot mic they are sayin something crooked.

Meanwhile here these guys get "caught" showing that they have confidence because they are correct in their position.
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Mmmmm, not quite. More like, "If we keep repeating our lies the American people will believe them". Didn't some German come up with a theory about that?
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

beefheart said:
They are as fraudulent as the radio talk show hosts.

It's all about them, while they spin the lies that the rabble wants to hear.
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Not much respect for your fellow citizens, eh?
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government Shu

head of joaquin said:
I thinks it just language, and unless it's used persuasively, the bad guys win. Cf Hitler.
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The problem is that its called "persuasion", which evokes artful crafting of a message to cast ones position in the best light.

What it actually is at this point is the artful application of a collection of "backdoors" and "exploits" in our cognitive hardwiring that bypass our filters in various ways to cynically manipulate feelings and beliefs.

It simply isn't "just language".

Couple a century of market research, which
 
Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government S

head of joaquin said:
Mmmmm, not quite. More like, "If we keep repeating our lies the American people will believe them".
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What lies?

Didn't some German come up with a theory about that?
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As a means to divert from the person trying to "national"-ly "socialize" the country?

I'm not sure you'd really want to play that game of "which politician is closer to nazi in their actions"... Or even which politicians are the biggest liars...

But you probly still believe the lie that double the cost is free healthcare (and it's not even in effect yet).
 
Re: Hot Mic Catches Rand Paul, Mitch McConnell Discussing Their Actual Government S

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