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Congressmen: SWAT told to 'stand down' at Navy yard

You are thinking of the movie view of SWAT teams. The only time a SWAt team would mocve right in on a situation is if they already had a plan to come in. In other words if they already had a planned raid they had worked out for a while. This was not a planned raid. Yes, it is cruel and horrible that people will die because of this, but it is also how they work. It is the tactical part of their nasme to employ tactics and strategy and not charge in like a bunch of squids and hope things go their way. Because of that they need recon, a plan, an idea of how many people they are facing, an idea of how many innocents are there, maps, floor plans, an account of weapons that might be laying around that the bad guys might now have, and tons of other preparation. That is how they work. Yes, that means when someone is itching to charge in without any of that stuff they would be told to stand down until the team is ready to go in.

SWAT teams can't operate that way, because of the shortage of time for formulate complex plans. SWAT teams have to have general SOP's in place and have leaders and personell who are able use personal initiative to act flexibly within those SOP's.
 
You don't have any idea what, "stand down", means. Do you?

Exactly, which is why there needs to be an investigation to find out why there was an order given to stand down, in the middle of a hot situation.

An investigation done by those who have that authority right now, who would normally do such an investigation. There is no reason to have Congress or anyone else involved just because.
 
An investigation done by those who have that authority right now, who would normally do such an investigation. There is no reason to have Congress or anyone else involved just because.

Ok. Did I say that Congress should necessarily be the investigating body? I don't recall saying exactly that, but if I did, I'll acquiesce.
 
Ok. Did I say that Congress should necessarily be the investigating body? I don't recall saying exactly that, but if I did, I'll acquiesce.

Congress nor any other arm of our federal government not normally involved in such situations should be involved in this at all, unless, as I said before, there comes some credible information that someone higher in government was involved in the order to standdown that shouldn't have been. It isn't there place.
 
Congress nor any other arm of our federal government not normally involved in such situations should be involved in this at all, unless, as I said before, there comes some credible information that someone higher in government was involved in the order to standdown that shouldn't have been. It isn't there place.

Wow! I'm in agreement and you're still preaching. :lamo
 
Wow! I'm in agreement and you're still preaching. :lamo

It didn't appear that way. You continued to dance around whether you believed Congress should be involved. And others had mentioned they believed Congress should be involved in the investigation in some way. I apologize if I confused you for one who believed that.

But investigations into what happened during any LE action seems to be a pretty common practice anyway. So why make a big deal about an investigation happening when it is almost going to be common procedure, particularly in such a high-profile case as this one, for an investigation?
 
It didn't appear that way. You continued to dance around whether you believed Congress should be involved. And others had mentioned they believed Congress should be involved in the investigation in some way. I apologize if I confused you for one who believed that.

But investigations into what happened during any LE action seems to be a pretty common practice anyway. So why make a big deal about an investigation happening when it is almost going to be common procedure, particularly in such a high-profile case as this one, for an investigation?

I'm not a fence post. You can stop trying to argue with me...lol!
 
And any Democrat that gets involved will be more interested in protecting Obama's messianic image than saving lives.

There isn't anything here to protect Obama from, so you're really just talking theoretically here.
 
There isn't anything here to protect Obama from, so you're really just talking theoretically here.

Obama is in charge, so anything that goes down is on his shoulders. You don't get to change the rules, just because your boy is in office.
 
Obama is in charge, so anything that goes down is on his shoulders. You don't get to change the rules, just because your boy is in office.

Wow, no. Just as Bush should not be blamed for 9/11 or Katrina or the Freeway shooter (that guy and his young "assistant" who shot random people on the east coast), Obama cannot be blamed for a single order given to a SWAT team unless he himself or at least someone in his staff gave the order to standdown to them.
 
Wow, no. Just as Bush should not be blamed for 9/11 or Katrina or the Freeway shooter (that guy and his young "assistant" who shot random people on the east coast), Obama cannot be blamed for a single order given to a SWAT team unless he himself or at least someone in his staff gave the order to standdown to them.

We're not taljung aboyt shooting, but rather the conduct of the SWAT team that responded to the shooting.
 
We're not taljung aboyt shooting, but rather the conduct of the SWAT team that responded to the shooting.

Which still would have absolutely nothing to do with Obama. He is not in charge of what their conduct is. He isn't even validly in their chain of command. They aren't the military. His personnel aren't in their chain of command.
 
Which still would have absolutely nothing to do with Obama. He is not in charge of what their conduct is. He isn't even validly in their chain of command. They aren't the military. His personnel aren't in their chain of command.

I forgot...Obama is never responsible for anything bad.
 
I think the President needs to be called on the carpet and answer as to why there was not a MQ-9 Reaper on station over D.C.

One Hellfire could have ended that standoff stat!

Just one more example of this "President" hanging Americans out to dry!
 
I forgot...Obama is never responsible for anything bad.

Obama is simply not responsible for everything bad that ever happens. Heck, in this case, we don't even know if the decision was actually bad. There simply isn't enough to go off of to know that.
 
Obama is simply not responsible for everything bad that ever happens. Heck, in this case, we don't even know if the decision was actually bad. There simply isn't enough to go off of to know that.

we don't even know that there was a stand down order given
 
we don't even know that there was a stand down order given

Pretty much. I have no issue with an investigation being done by whoever normally does such investigations, but it is way too early to start placing blame without even some of the really basic facts, if a standdown order was really given, and if so, who initiated it, why it was given, and whether it was appropriate.
 
So, my driveway is a traditional hiding spot for motorcycle cops. They lurk there because I live on an under-posted steet (25 MPH) which should easily be 30. So it';s a target rich environment for toicket revenues. So, naturally, I just went outside and pose this question to the officer. Here is what his opinion was...

The FIRST reason SWAT officers wear helmets is because they serve exactly one function. Killing.

They are not appropriate in all situations, particularly if the bad guy is hard to identify from the innocents. There are undercover Hostage Rescue teams for that. So, it may have been a good idea not to use SWAT and use other types of officers.

It's just the opinion of one motorcycle cop but I also did some Googling and it sounds correct.
 
Obama is simply not responsible for everything bad that ever happens. Heck, in this case, we don't even know if the decision was actually bad. There simply isn't enough to go off of to know that.

Obama is NEVER responsible for anything negative.
 
Pretty much. I have no issue with an investigation being done by whoever normally does such investigations, but it is way too early to start placing blame without even some of the really basic facts, if a standdown order was really given, and if so, who initiated it, why it was given, and whether it was appropriate.

Obviously it wasn't appropriate, since the shooter was still active.
 
Obama is simply not responsible for everything bad that ever happens. Heck, in this case, we don't even know if the decision was actually bad. There simply isn't enough to go off of to know that.


That doesn't matter, a stand down order was given and obviously that came right from the top! Nothing will stop Obama from releasing jihad upon America!

/sarcasm off
 
Obviously it wasn't appropriate, since the shooter was still active.

We don't know what was appropriate or not. We simply do not have all the information, such as was there another team there, was there simply some other group there, inside that could of taken a better action than a SWAT team. We don't have all the information so we don't know if the order, if given, was appropriate.
 
We don't know what was appropriate or not. We simply do not have all the information, such as was there another team there, was there simply some other group there, inside that could of taken a better action than a SWAT team. We don't have all the information so we don't know if the order, if given, was appropriate.

Do you inow what stand down means?
 
Do you inow what stand down means?

Do you know what having all the information to make an intelligent decision means.
 
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