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Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over[W:67]

Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Objective Voice said:
Did anybody bother to source the OP? Because it's completely WRONG!!!

A complete and utter LIE! This is NOT what Warren Buffett said. He wasn't talking about ObamaCare at all. He was referring to our health care system in general pre-ObamaCare.

Here's a link to the actual CNBC video. Here is the video again as reported by the HuffingtonPost.com with accompanying news article UNEDITTED. In fact, when asked if given a choice would he vote for the PPACA, Buffett said, "if given a choice between what we have ("Plan A" - our current health care system) and 'Plan B' - the PPACA bill (before it became law), he'd take 'Plan B' but he'd prefer a 'Plan B' but he'd like to see a 'Plan C' that brought down the cost of health care."
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Listening to Buffet gave me a better understanding of the quotes above with respect to context. They aren't completely wrong however. He did say our system prior to Obamacare was like a tapeworm. I don't know that I agree with him about that. He did say that there was a better option than Obamacare that concentrated on lowering medical costs which he hoped we would implement instead of Obamacare. Finally said he said Obamacare was better than doing nothing. He's a democrat, that's what I would have expected.

You're right that the quotes are partisan and better understood in context. They are not however an utter lie.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

ReformCollege said:
They also have lower levels of obesity, heart disease, diabetes, etc

Apples to oranges
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I was addressing the COST OF SERVICES, not the comparative health of populations.

Content and context phail.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Fisher said:
I don't think that is true in urban areas as far as doctors and clinics
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Go ahead and show how a person with private insurance can go outside of his group plan and have a lower cost of procedure.....and get an estimate of the service prior to the procedure.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
Go ahead and show how a person with private insurance can go outside of his group plan and have a lower cost of procedure.....and get an estimate of the service prior to the procedure.
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Why since that is not what I was responding to. We have 2 different doc in a boxes across the road from each other that have different charges for different things than the other. The cheaper one has longer wait times and the more more expensive one has less wait time because they have more staff. Insurance is irrelevant to their competition.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Fisher said:
Why since that is not what I was responding to. We have 2 different doc in a boxes across the road from each other that have different charges for different things than the other. The cheaper one has longer wait times and the more more expensive one has less wait time because they have more staff. Insurance is irrelevant to their competition.
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So both are within your providers/group plan?
 
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Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
So both are within your group plan?
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I am not part of a group plan but I have yet to find a doctor that won't take my insurance
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Fisher said:
I am not part of a group plan but I have yet to find a doctor that won't take my insurance
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So you are able to switch Dr.'s (General Practitioners) within your policy and you determine who you go to based on price which you are able to determine prior to your visit?
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
Go ahead and show how a person with private insurance can go outside of his group plan and have a lower cost of procedure.....and get an estimate of the service prior to the procedure.
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You are assuming that all insurance has a HMO/PPO cartel attached to it, which is not so. The problem is that with insurance you really don't care what the ultimate cost is; you care only how it effects your out of pocket cost and the convenience of the provider.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

ttwtt78640 said:
The problem is that with insurance you really don't care what the ultimate cost is
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Um, actually, that is what I care about, the "ultimate" cost of medical care in the US under the regime we have in place, ie private insurance.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
So you are able to switch Dr.'s (General Practitioners) within your policy and you determine who you go to based on price which you are able to determine prior to your visit?
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In theory. Two medicare relatives I have yammer on about this. Husband goes to his doc and his out of pocket is less than his wife's co-pay at a different doc. Don't ask me why, but I have heard them fuss about this several times. Husband's appointments, however can take 1-2 hours because his doc schedules 10 people at once and gets to them as he gets to them but wife's seldom takes more than 30 minutes because her doc schedules in like 10 or 15 minute intervals.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

ttwtt78640 said:
You are assuming that all insurance has a HMO/PPO cartel attached to it, which is not so. The problem is that with insurance you really don't care what the ultimate cost is; you care only how it effects your out of pocket cost and the convenience of the provider.
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Most group insurance does belong to one or the other.

In the case of a PPO,, the health care providers agree to accept a pre negotiated price for services in exchange for members patronizing only their members. If the patient goes outside of the PPO, then he pays himself and at whatever the traffic will bear.

In the case of an HMO, the patient actually belongs to an organization that directly provides health care. Again, if he goes outside of the HMO, then the insurance does not pay, and there is no pre negotiated price.

the PPO, of course, has a urologist on staff (yes, that was a joke. Think about it.)
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
Um, actually, that is what I care about, the "ultimate" cost of medical care in the US under the regime we have in place, ie private insurance.
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Because the powers that be want to discourage medical savings accounts and catastophic medical care insurance. The more people paying for care directly then the lower the cost will be - because then it would matter. If your cost is $20 per visit, regardless of what care is given, then you don't much care (or likely even know) what gets billed to your insurance carrier.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

ttwtt78640 said:
then you don't much care
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You missed it, I do care. The discussion I am addressing is how we LOWER medical cost in the US. I know you want to make your point about cost not being seen by a policy holder....but that is not what I am discussing.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
Nope, not talking about theory, talking real world as it exists in the US currently.
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In the real world, I know so many doctors and nurse practitioners, that I do not sit in waiting rooms unless it is at the ER with one of my relatives and sometimes they bill me and sometimes they don't :2wave:
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
You missed it, I do care. The discussion I am addressing is how we LOWER medical cost in the US. I know you want to make your point about cost not being seen by a policy holder....but that is not what I am discussing.
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You lower your costs the same way that I lower my costs, pay cash as much as possible and compare prices. A huge factor causing high medical costs is the demand that free care be given (to those "unabe" to pay) and that few pay for their care directly. Even PPACA allows for 15% to 20% "waste" (overhead) simply to have third party middle men involved in routine care. I get a cash discount for paying for my care at time of service; no payment delay or added cost of payment billing/collection is involved.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

ttwtt78640 said:
You lower your costs the same way that I lower my costs, pay cash as much as possible and compare prices. I get a cash discount for paying for my care at time of service; no payment delay or added cost of payment billing/collection is involved.
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LOL....now you have gone from telling me that I am not concerned about lower costs within a US insurance regime.....to saying that we should go to a cash based medical care system.

I have no idea why you think I am your sounding board for your non-sequiturs.

Just post your crap without quoting me, for gods sake.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
LOL....now you have gone from telling me that I am not concerned about lower costs within a US insurance regime.....to saying that we should go to a cash based medical care system.

I have no idea why you think I am your sounding board for your non-sequiturs.

Just post your crap without quoting me, for gods sake.
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I explained that back in post #88. Using medical savings accounts coupled with (very high deductable) catastrophic medical care insurance. So long as medical care insurance is not used for only the rare, unexpected and expensive events it will continue to go up in price. Consider what the cost of a automobile policy would be if it was mandated that it pay for worn tire replacement, oil changes, tune-ups and car washes/waxes. People have come to expect that medical care can be had by all for some fixed percentage of their income and that insurance overhead (paperwork and pament delay) should be involved in all routine medical care.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

ttwtt78640 said:
So long as medical care insurance is not used for only the rare, unexpected and expensive events it will continue to go up in price.
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Got it, insurance....causes procedure cost increases!

I have no idea why you think I am your sounding board for your non-sequiturs.

Just post your crap without quoting me, for gods sake.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Well, if that corrupt old dog Warren Buffet said it then it must be true. :roll:
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Deuce said:
Yes, my main criticism has always been that it addresses coverage but misses on cost dramatically.

And no, tort reform and crossing state lines is not a magic bullet solution to this.

edit: that, and the fact that it's further entrenching a faulty fee-for-service model.
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And it's no secret that big parma and big insurance are also coincidently the largest contributors of politicians and also employ the largest lobbying firms in Washington.. Hmmm???


I've said since I moved here in 1998 that American's should be allowed to shop outside the USA for their drugs and healthcare.


Tim-
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Midwest Lib said:
I agree. Scrap it. The only people who "like" Obama care are the people on the left who will support, in a hyper-partisan manner, anything that their side puts to paper. Most free thinking liberals I know dislike Obamacare as much as many conservatives (although for some different reasons)

A big reason I voted for Obama in 2008 was the possibility of UHC and a single payer system. What we got was a bloated piece of crap that continues to serve big business above all.

I say scrap it and work on medicare for all.
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Funny but it was Hillary who advocated UHC, Obama went for Romneycare.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
Got it, insurance....causes procedure cost increases!
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Not all insurance, just insurance that is mandated to pay for everything. Imagine if homeowner's insurance had to pay for broken windows, leaky faucets, burned out light bulbs and such, and if the homeowner had no reason to care what such things cost to fix.

Pretty soon, we'd all be out in the street, unable to afford homeowner's insurance.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Dittohead not! said:
Not all insurance, just insurance that is mandated to pay for everything.
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Sure...after all, single payer insurance used in the modern industrial world (except in the US)....has seen procedure cost increases greater than the US.....er......not.
 
Re: Warren Buffet Says Scrap Obamacare Start over

Gimmesometruth said:
Sure...after all, single payer insurance used in the modern industrial world (except in the US)....has seen procedure cost increases greater than the US.....er......not.
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Single payer insurance as used in the modern world has proven far superior to our patchwork system in keeping costs down, to be sure, but it still is plagued with increasing expense. We can do not only better than we're doing, but better than the other nations are doing, if only we'd apply market economics to a universal health insurance program.

But, alas, we won't. On one side, we'll hear about how any form of universal coverage is "socialism", and therefore evil, and on the other hand how the poor will never be able to afford the high deductible coverage we all know would control costs, and that meanwhile the insurance companies, the ones really running things, will never allow meaningful reform to pass.

so, the discussion is largely academic anyway, at least until we control somehow the influence of money on politics.
 
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