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Aaron Alexis: Washington navy yard gunman obsessed with violent video games.

sookster said:
What would happen if absolutely no weapons were to be available?
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Something you cant guarantee. Drugs are illegal yet over the last 20 years questionnaires at high-schools have shown up to 70+% of kids believe they have easy access to marajuana.

There will always be bad people wanting to do bad things, the answer is not infringing on the rights of law abiding citizens but dealing directly with the criminals.

A hit and run is not justification to ban all cars, an alcohol related incident is not justification to ban all alcohol, just like a shooting is not justification to ban all guns.

Despite murder with guns being down 49%
since the 90s.....

"A survey by the Pew Centre earlier this year found that 56 per cent of Americans polled believed that gun crime is higher now than two decades ago. Only 12 per cent correctly thought that gun crime was lower."

Thats the result of our government propaganda machine.
 
sookster said:
What would happen if absolutely no weapons were to be available?
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A hypothetical situation that would never happen. You might as well ask "what would happen if we had world peace?". It's along the same fantasy lines as your question.

There will ALWAYS be weapons. Even in prisons where weapons aren't allowed at all, inmates still manage to find something to make into a weapon.
 
sookster said:
What would happen if absolutely no weapons were to be available?
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That would certainly fix it.

However, since the Chinese first invented the hand cannon thousands of years ago, Handguns of all sorts have been available. That Pandora's box is open. There is no way to rid the entire world of guns, it is a pipe dream contemplate such a thing
 
Paratrooper said:
I think the people trying to blame this on video games (and there are many) are ludicrous.

Long before video games existed, children were playing cops and robbers, or cowboys and indians. Was this priming young minds to become mass murderers? Of course not.

In almost EVERY case of mass shooting in modern history it has been determined that the shooter was seeing a psychologist and/or had a history of mental illness.

Why is it people immediately jump to "its the guns" or " violent video games!" "rap music"

A rational person knows that just because something can be done in a game does make it acceptable to do outside the game.
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Actually I haven't seen where anyone has laid the blame squarely upon violent video games, it has been both suggested and asked what the connection might be however considering all of the last four mass shooters didn't just play them but had OBSESSIONS with them, psychotropic drugs are another commonality, trouble getting along in society was another commonality, ignored warnings is another commonality and gun free zones is a common factor as well. Btw, playing cops and robbers, doesn't even come close to the gratuitous violence depicted in the rather revolting video games these shooters have been obsessed with.
 
sookster said:
What would happen if absolutely no weapons were to be available?
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It would have to literally mean NO GUNS, none. None on the planet, a biblical utopian whereby they had all been turned into farming implements (a novel ideal to be sure, but...........) or do you just mean the law abiding peasants have no guns, because we can see where the ruling class would be interested in advancing that notion for ulterior motives. I say, as I do with nukes, everybody has them or nobody has them.
 
Montecresto said:
Actually I haven't seen where anyone has laid the blame squarely upon violent video games, it has been both suggested and asked what the connection might be however considering all of the last four mass shooters didn't just play them but had OBSESSIONS with them, psychotropic drugs are another commonality, trouble getting along in society was another commonality, ignored warnings is another commonality and gun free zones is a common factor as well. Btw, playing cops and robbers, doesn't even come close to the gratuitous violence depicted in the rather revolting video games these shooters have been obsessed with.
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Yes, but you also need to take a look at the obsession and why. There are people that have obsessive behaviors and can be obsessed to almost anything. If there weren't video games, it could be movies. If there were no movies, it could be guns. If there weren't guns, it could be weapons. And the list goes on and on.

Too many people want to blame ONE thing for the ills of the world and that simply is not only unrealistic it misses the point completely.

It's not video games that are the problem. The problem is the people that commit the crimes.
 
TheNextEra said:
Yes, but you also need to take a look at the obsession and why. There are people that have obsessive behaviors and can be obsessed to almost anything. If there weren't video games, it could be movies. If there were no movies, it could be guns. If there weren't guns, it could be weapons. And the list goes on and on.

Too many people want to blame ONE thing for the ills of the world and that simply is not only unrealistic it misses the point completely.

It's not video games that are the problem. The problem is the people that commit the crimes.
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Why are you quoting me when saying that and putting all caps to "ONE" when I very clearly listed a host of factors and laid blame to neither of them??
 
Montecresto said:
Why are you quoting me when saying that and putting all caps to "ONE" when I very clearly listed a host of factors and laid blame to neither of them??
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Sorry, I should have just quoted about the obsession part and I just wanted to mention the other things. If I implied you said anything about ONE I apologize.
 
TheNextEra said:
Sorry, I should have just quoted about the obsession part and I just wanted to mention the other things. If I implied you said anything about ONE I apologize.
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That's cool man, thanks for the clarification.
 
Zyphlin said:
So should we seek to limit pee'ing and breathing since there's a "growing correlation" between those things as well?
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Perhaps my attempt at answering absurdity with absurdity was a bit to subtle. The post the prompted my "pee" and "breath" comments was absurd on the face of it.

Hypothetically, if every mass shooter was shown to have an obsessing with video games, would it be reasonable to consider addressing this?

My point relates specifically to the abject hypocricy of the left when it comes to gun control in the wake of these tragic shootings.

When there appears to be a growing link to these video games, any thought given to looking into their impact is soundly rejected, as evidenced by posts on this thread.

However, as predictable as the sun rise, the only push is further regulate gun ownership.

In my view, this bias eliminates any point they think they could make.
 
Capster78 said:
It is clear that it is the combination of a few key issues. First issue is the mental health treatment issues in this country. It seems everyone wants the "right" to hide their mental health issues even when these issues may be/are a potential hazard for society. There are certain things that should be privy in order to determine an individual's threat to society.

The other issue is, in a society where mental health issues go virtually ignored, there is easy access to firearms. You can do all the background checks you want, but if mental health issues are rarely reported on/treated, they will never show up on a background check. We have created a "perfect storm" here and seem to be unwilling to solve the problem.

If, perhaps, there were intensive mental health exams required prior to owning a firearm, this may catch some of these issues with mass shootings. However, mass shootings is only the tip of the iceburg when it comes to gun violence in this country. The main culprit is the easy access to firearms. Just the shear number of firearms floating around out there makes it nearly impossible to control who can and cant get ahold of one.
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Unfortunately, your argument runs in to the reality that guns have been available for a very, very, long time. It is only in the last couple of decades that these tragic shootings have become more common place. During that period, gun control has become far more stringent, so it can't be the guns.

The bottom line is what you touched on. The mental health issue. When the ACLU was successful in pushing mentally ill people onto the streets, it created a situation where it's extremely difficult to force someone to get help, even when it's obvious they need it.

What ends up happening is people with an agenda side step the elephant in the room and focus on only one issue - guns, and not on other issues, like mental health, or even these lame mass murder video games.
 
ocean515 said:
Hypothetically, if every mass shooter was shown to have an obsessing with video games, would it be reasonable to consider addressing this?
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Hypothetically, I think it would be reasonable to look further into it and potentially take some kind of action if there was actually clear evidence that every one was obsessing over such. My issue is that neither clear evidence nor a definition in terms of the amount have really been provided in the majority of cases.

My point relates specifically to the abject hypocricy of the left when it comes to gun control in the wake of these tragic shootings.
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I see your point. I roll my eyes at it a bit considering the abject hypocricy of the right attempting to place blame on inanimate objects in the wake of these tragic shootings. Hypocrisy is abundant on both sides, and attempting to point out hypocrisy THROUGH hypocrisy generally is a self defeating endevour. Especially online when one has a poor ability to highlight that they're attempting to do a parody and are not serious, rather than expressing their honest views and thoughts.

When there appears to be a growing link to these video games, any thought given to looking into their impact is soundly rejected, as evidenced by posts on this thread.
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:roll: Becuase said "growing link" and the "looking into" implied and suggested are both ridiculous upon the surface and with logic. The "growing links" are often second hand speculation coming from individuals who knew the shooter and with no quantifiable measurement as to the level of involvement the person had with them. They're also following a media template of sensationalizing things that are somewhat outside the "norm", especially for your more middle aged to elderly individuals in the media. I see no more "growing link" to "these video games" in these instances than I do to Television, music, or any other thing that is the current "blame it on this" item now.

It's hillarious you complain about the "hypocrisy of the left" as you sit here to continue to attempt to infer and place blame upon an inanimate object for the actions perpetrated by a person.

However, as predictable as the sun rise, the only push is further regulate gun ownership.
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No, that's not the "only push". Look at this thread, look at the NRA spokesman following the school shooting recently, it's QUITE clear there are OTHER pushes as well. While its true the gun contorl push is the strongest...and I'm not in favor of that either...it's far from the "only" push that occurs.
 
ocean515 said:
Unfortunately, your argument runs in to the reality that guns have been available for a very, very, long time. It is only in the last couple of decades that these tragic shootings have become more common place. During that period, gun control has become far more stringent, so it can't be the guns.
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But it is guns. Guns are a large contributing factor. Many countries struggle with mental health issues but they don't have mass shootings nearly as often as we do. Many countries I have been to have mass stabbings (Much of asia) because guns are not easy to acquire. And in most mass stabbing instances, the majority of people are merely injured, not killed. To say guns are not a factor is just simply ignorant.

The bottom line is what you touched on. The mental health issue. When the ACLU was successful in pushing mentally ill people onto the streets, it created a situation where it's extremely difficult to force someone to get help, even when it's obvious they need it.
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While this is a factor is most mass shootings, the majority of gun violence is not done by people with mental health issues. Attacking the mental health issues in the US will only prevent some of the mass shootings, not all, and will do nothing to solve the overall gun violence issue. It would be as ignorant as saying that knives are just as lethal as guns. If that were the case our military would be equipped with knives instead of guns because they are cheaper and can be used more than once without wasting any materials (bullets).

What ends up happening is people with an agenda side step the elephant in the room and focus on only one issue - guns, and not on other issues, like mental health, or even these lame mass murder video games.
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There are cetainly many issues at play here, but many people also sidestep guns as being part of that issue.
 
Capster78 said:
But it is guns. Guns are a large contributing factor. Many countries struggle with mental health issues but they don't have mass shootings nearly as often as we do. Many countries I have been to have mass stabbings (Much of asia) because guns are not easy to acquire. And in most mass stabbing instances, the majority of people are merely injured, not killed. To say guns are not a factor is just simply ignorant.



While this is a factor is most mass shootings, the majority of gun violence is not done by people with mental health issues. Attacking the mental health issues in the US will only prevent some of the mass shootings, not all, and will do nothing to solve the overall gun violence issue. It would be as ignorant as saying that knives are just as lethal as guns. If that were the case our military would be equipped with knives instead of guns because they are cheaper and can be used more than once without wasting any materials (bullets).



There are cetainly many issues at play here, but many people also sidestep guns as being part of that issue.
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Why do you think these mass shootings have become more prevelent in the last 30 years or so, even though guns were far more available then, than they are today?
 
ocean515 said:
Why do you think these mass shootings have become more prevelent in the last 30 years or so, even though guns were far more available then, than they are today?
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Actually, that is not true. Guns have become more widely available now then ever before in history other then during war on our soil.
 
When Ronald Reagan was governor of California he systematically began closing down mental hospitals, later as president he would cut aid for federally-funded community mental health programs. It is not a coincidence that the homeless populations in the state of California grew in the seventies and eighties. The people were put out on the street when mental hospitals started to close all over the state.
 
Capster78 said:
Actually, that is not true. Guns have become more widely available now then ever before in history other then during war on our soil.
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There are more restrictions on guns today than there were back then. How can it be they are more available today, than they were before?
 
ocean515 said:
There are more restrictions on guns today than there were back then. How can it be they are more available today, than they were before?
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"Restrictions" like a waiting period or background check?
 
lizzie said:
I've been hearing a few news stories lately about new research which indicates that violent video games do have a link with a higher propensity for violence in real life. Not sure if it's proven, but there does appear to be a correlation.
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My guess is that it isn't really the game that creates the mental instability but rather than the mental instability is somehow or other leads to an obsession with games. The core of psychotic behavior seems to be obsession of some sort. Perhaps the person is obsessed with pornography or putting their belongings in order or video games or whatever else but the telltale sign seems to be obsessive behavior.
 
ocean515 said:
Guns of all types have been around for quite some time. Yet, it would seem the suggestion is the violence is escallating. Why weren't these events as prevelent decades ago? What is different today, that wasn't around before?

It seems fingers are pointing to violent video games, wouldn't that be fair to say, since there is a growing correlation between these wack jobs, and their obsession with these war game video scenarios?
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There's also a correlation between mentally ill individuals not getting the help they need. The loss of Federal funding for mental institutions might be cause as well. There's also the possibility that a mentally deranged individual sees media coverage of school shootings and decides to go on a rampage. There's a lot of different reasons...some make a lot more sense than others.

The "violent video game" excuse is a red herring. We know individuals with mental problems aren't getting the care they need. We also know that individuals with mental problems are having no problems getting a hold of weapons. Those are two obvious direct concerns.
 
ocean515 said:
Type, size, etc.. Let's not pretend there have been no gun control measures enacted over the last 30+ years.
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Very few, and very ineffective ones. Every other item that causes a high number of fatalities is far more restricted then guns.
 
trfjr said:
when you are able to repeatedly kill in a video game with out any repercussions other then a high score in the insane it will loosen the inhabitations of what ever is left of their constituents that tells them it is wrong to do so in real life



so they it will become instinct to kill without thinking right from wrong. the make them numb to the fact when I pull they trigger some one will die they don't want them to hesitate about taking a life when you do some thing repeatedly you are able to do so without thought
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How about they are mentally ill and should probably be in a hospital rather than out on the street? There's a lot of direct problems...mentally ill individuals not taken care of and mentally ill individuals having easy access to guns.
 
iliveonramen said:
There's also a correlation between mentally ill individuals not getting the help they need. The loss of Federal funding for mental institutions might be cause as well. There's also the possibility that a mentally deranged individual sees media coverage of school shootings and decides to go on a rampage. There's a lot of different reasons...some make a lot more sense than others.

The "violent video game" excuse is a red herring. We know individuals with mental problems aren't getting the care they need. We also know that individuals with mental problems are having no problems getting a hold of weapons. Those are two obvious direct concerns.
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The "violent video game" connection is documented, no matter how much you want to defend it.

Since the connection exists, perhaps there should be psychological testing of anyone wanting to purchase these violent games. At minimum it might be wise to have people register their games, and even institute a waiting period before allowing the buyers to take possession.

The mental illness issue is a concern. Ever since the ACLU successfully changed the way mentally ill people are treated, the growning threat from these unfortunate people has become real. This is an issue that needs discussion.
 
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