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Aaron Alexis: Washington navy yard gunman obsessed with violent video games.

I don't get it.

If playing Madden NFL 25 doesn't make me a Football player,

and playing Avengers: Initiative doesn't make me a Marvel Hero,

what makes you think playing a FPS is going to make me a real shooter?
 
Too many people are trying to draw explicit conclusions from the fact that two prevailing commonalities in these mass shootings of late include the use of psychotropic drugs and violent video games. It is however remarkable.
 
Montecresto said:
Sooner or later the correlation between psychotropic drugs, violent video games and mass shootings will be TOO obvious to dismiss. At this point, many are still in denial though.
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If you banned violent video games tomorrow the future mass shooters would gravitate towards something else that would meet their needs to act out their fantasies.
 
iliveonramen said:
Correlation doesn't equal causation. It's just or more likely that violent individuals gravitate towards violent media as a way to act out their aggression.

I'm not sure how the idea that violent games cause violent action meshes with the fact that juvenile violent crime is at a 30 year low.
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Well, I'd think it meshes when it's reported that many of the shooters have had fixations on violent video games. The correlation to juvenile crime rates is what doesn't mesh.
 
Jredbaron96 said:
I don't get it.

If playing Madden NFL 25 doesn't make me a Football player,

and playing Avengers: Initiative doesn't make me a Marvel Hero,

what makes you think playing a FPS is going to make me a real shooter?
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Because it take the conversation away from the fact that yet another mentally deranged person bought an AR and went on a shooting spree.
 
iliveonramen said:
Who are you to say that the video game wasn't just a way to act out his murder spree fantasies? Are you saying that if violent video games were banned tomorrow we'd see a drop in homicidal rampages in the US? That regular law abiding citizens pick up the new edition of Call of Duty and are turned into someone that will go on a shooting spree?
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my point was the mentally ill I know you feel a need to wrongfully include the sane in your point to validate that point. The sane knows the difference with the fantasy of the violent video games in reality I'm talking about the insane. what did the last 4 mass shooters all had in common?

also I find it hilarious that the left use the same arguments about violent video games that they dismiss when used against gun control
 
iliveonramen said:
If you banned violent video games tomorrow the future mass shooters would gravitate towards something else that would meet their needs to act out their fantasies.
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That's still missing the point. I've yet to see anyone suggesting banning anything. Not everyone that watches porn becomes sexual predictors, not everybody that uses alcohol becomes violent, etc. but this connection shouldn't be dismissed.
 
lizzie said:
I've been hearing a few news stories lately about new research which indicates that violent video games do have a link with a higher propensity for violence in real life. Not sure if it's proven, but there does appear to be a correlation.
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What they don't seem to rule out is if the video game connection is coincidental in allready violence-prone individuals. In the 80s it was Ozzy and Judas Priest blamed for the violence. Since today's "rock" is so wimpy, video games are filling the void?
 
Montecresto said:
That's still missing the point. I've yet to see anyone suggesting banning anything. Not everyone that watches porn becomes sexual predictors, not everybody that uses alcohol becomes violent, etc. but this connection shouldn't be dismissed.
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I'm just throwing out the extreme example of a complete ban. Do you think it would make any difference? That these individuals were just one Call of Duty marathon from being normal acting human beings that don't go on shooting rampages?

There is a connection...but it seems like the connection is more about fantasy before acting...which is a pretty common theme for psychopaths that commit mass murder or become serial killers.
 
trfjr said:
my point was the mentally ill I know you feel a need to wrongfully include the sane in your point to validate that point. The sane knows the difference with the fantasy of the violent video games in reality I'm talking about the insane. what did the last 4 mass shooters all had in common?

also I find it hilarious that the left use the same arguments about violent video games that they dismiss when used against gun control
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The are two completely different things. People are claiming that video games motivates individuals to commit mass shootings. No one ever has claimed that guns are a motivator they are just a tool.
 
iliveonramen said:
I'm not sure how re-writing what I wrote is a response to what I wrote.
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I didn't re-write what you wrote.

You suggested the correlation could be explained by assuming violent people gravitate to violent games, and it's not the games that create violent people.

Why would that make any difference? The fact is there is growing evidence of a correlation between these shooters, and violent video games.
 
Montecresto said:
I've yet to see anyone suggesting banning anything.
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Not yet, but this is the same type of comparison that was done with that netherlands (I think Netherlands) shooter and some people did call for banning of violent video games.
 
mac said:
What they don't seem to rule out is if the video game connection is coincidental in allready violence-prone individuals. In the 80s it was Ozzy and Judas Priest blamed for the violence. Since today's "rock" is so wimpy, video games are filling the void?
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they may be, but the difference (and I personally think it's significant), is the sensory input of games vs music. With games you have visual and auditory input, which I suspect is more influential.
 
ocean515 said:
I didn't re-write what you wrote.

You suggested the correlation could be explained by assuming violent people gravitate to violent games, and it's not the games that create violent people.
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It's just as likely barring any additional information. In a correlation there's only a couple of possibilities, A causes B, B causes A, B and A have a common cause but do not cause each other, or it's coincidental.

The idea that violent video games leads to violent tendencies would have to have an explanation of why you see such a low violent crime rate among younger individuals at the same time that games like Call of Duty sell more copies are more popular than they've ever been.

You'd also have to explain why the games are popular in all Western countries yet the US is the only country experiencing this number of mass shootings.

You're kind of left with either violent individuals gravitate towards violent games, it's coincidental, or there's a 3rd cause...like all the shooters were young and all young folk play violent video games.
 
iliveonramen said:
It's just as likely barring any additional information. In a correlation there's only a couple of possibilities, A causes B, B causes A, B and A have a common cause but do not cause each other, or it's coincidental.

The idea that violent video games leads to violent tendencies would have to have an explanation of why you see such a low violent crime rate among younger individuals at the same time that games like Call of Duty sell more copies are more popular than they've ever been.

You'd also have to explain why the games are popular in all Western countries yet the US is the only country experiencing this number of mass shootings.

You're kind of left with either violent individuals gravitate towards violent games, it's coincidental, or there's a 3rd cause...like all the shooters were young and all young folk play violent video games.
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If violent people tend to be attracted to violent games, shouldn't we limit the violent games, since there is a growing correlation?

Isn't this the same argument used by those calling for limiting guns?
 
It's the perfect storm of multiple problems. As pointed out, millions of people play violent games and do not turn violent. Millions of people own guns or have access to purchase guns but do not go on a shooting spree. Millions of people live with mental / behavioral issues and also do not become violent.

The issue to me is mental health and how it is vastly lagging behind physical health. People who are or have had incidents of mental health issues in the past need to be assessed psychologically. For example, if a person is already a manic depressive who functions with prescription drugs - who wants to go out and buy an AR-15 and violent video games, would that be a good idea? Shouldn't the psychologist flag this person as "no guns, no violent video games" which would make it more difficult for that person to legally purchase and use both guns and violent games? I'm starting to think the database needed for certain individuals should, for the sake of their own health and the safety of others around them, limit their access to both guns and these games. The issue really is, the mental health system in America is crap and would need to be strengthened possibly by new laws that are passed which puts temporary / permanent restrictions on those with certain types of mental illness so this perfect storm does not easily exist.
 
ocean515 said:
If violent people tend to be attracted to violent games, shouldn't we limit the violent games, since there is a growing correlation?
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I'm not sure why. If there was no violent video games they would play out their sicko fantasies in other ways including just fantasizing about the acts in their head. Unless video games are causing people to act violently I'm not sure how you would make the case for limiting them.

Isn't this the same argument used by those calling for limiting guns?
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I'm not sure how.

In one case you're pointing as something that causes an event in the other it's the means with which an event is carried out. No one claims law abiding Joe Schmo because homicidal mass shooter because he owns a gun. They claim that homicidal potential mass shooter has no problems getting guns/bullet proof vests/smoke canisters or whatever he needs to live out his murder fantasy.
 
Ockham said:
It's the perfect storm of multiple problems. As pointed out, millions of people play violent games and do not turn violent. Millions of people own guns or have access to purchase guns but do not go on a shooting spree. Millions of people live with mental / behavioral issues and also do not become violent.

The issue to me is mental health and how it is vastly lagging behind physical health. People who are or have had incidents of mental health issues in the past need to be assessed psychologically. For example, if a person is already a manic depressive who functions with prescription drugs - who wants to go out and buy an AR-15 and violent video games, would that be a good idea? Shouldn't the psychologist flag this person as "no guns, no violent video games" which would make it more difficult for that person to legally purchase and use both guns and violent games? I'm starting to think the database needed for certain individuals should, for the sake of their own health and the safety of others around them, limit their access to both guns and these games. The issue really is, the mental health system in America is crap and would need to be strengthened possibly by new laws that are passed which puts temporary / permanent restrictions on those with certain types of mental illness so this perfect storm does not easily exist.
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Basically agree that this is the point that some are trying to make here.
 
iliveonramen said:
It's just as likely barring any additional information. In a correlation there's only a couple of possibilities, A causes B, B causes A, B and A have a common cause but do not cause each other, or it's coincidental.

The idea that violent video games leads to violent tendencies would have to have an explanation of why you see such a low violent crime rate among younger individuals at the same time that games like Call of Duty sell more copies are more popular than they've ever been.

You'd also have to explain why the games are popular in all Western countries yet the US is the only country experiencing this number of mass shootings.

You're kind of left with either violent individuals gravitate towards violent games, it's coincidental, or there's a 3rd cause...like all the shooters were young and all young folk play violent video games.
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Im referring to the mentally ill and violent video games and the blurred line between the video game fantasy and reality in their minds . A sane person can separate the two but we are not talking about the sane are we. the last 4 mass shooter all had mental problems

I want to use training of military in law enforcement units as an example they repeatedly use training like video games so they react to a violent situation on impulse so not to waste time and think because you don't have time to think it is fire or be killed they do it over and over again so it becomes impulse

Im not saying violent video games making the mentally ill violent they all ready probably have violent tendencies. Im talking about them blurring the fantasy of the video game and reality. im talking about the video game making them jaded, numb to the violence and it is no different in their mind killing some one in a video game and doing so in real life
 
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sookster said:
I also think people do not understand the lack of information and biasm that scientist have with regards to psychotropic medicines. What I am interested in finding out is whether or not the perpetrators of these crimes are taking psychotropic medicines. There is some evidence that suggests that these medications actually induce the conditions they are trying to treat. I am wondering if they may have an influence on mentally ill people becoming violent. These medications are serious business; they change the actual brain chemistry and a lot of finding the right cocktail of these medications is educated trial and error.

I think violent video games is similar to the gun phenomenon. The majority of players do not do any violent acts. However there is a few percentage that might be affected by the constant violence in these games. Should there be regulations put into place on these games? Whether or not it is right or wrong is besides the point, because the video game industry is more lucrative than even the movie industry. It brings good revenue for the government and is a good stimulant to the economy. Financial reasons always out weigh any action for anything else in this country. Therefore I do not think anything is going to be done in regards to violent video games.
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Good point. In fact the content of video games and movies were considered as possible contributing causes after Sandy Hook. The concerns were summarily dismissed after Hollywood and the video game industry held up their first amendment rights. So it appears all amendments are not treated the same considering the 2nd and 4th are under near constant attack. What I find interesting is that NSA apparently has no information to contribute and the FBI seems to be scratching their heads as well. Welcome to the new shooter paradigm, an otherwise peaceful guy who for some reason has had enough (of what I don't know) and snaps. I've heard some interesting speculation including the video game angle, a minor charge for disorderly conduct 5 years ago, PTSD, even heard that he had been seen in his home town open carrying. It's Texas, it's legal there and not at all unusual, but if it scares the puppies why not use it.
 
The most outrageous part of this story is the man's atrocious taste in video games.
 
trfjr said:
Im referring to the mentally ill and violent video games and the blurred line between the video game fantasy and reality in their minds . A sane person can separate the two but we are not talking about the sane are we. the last 4 mass shooter all had mental problems
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Generally individuals with mental problems that carry out insane acts of violence be it mass shootings or a serial killer act out the fantasies in their heads well before they carry out the act. It's seems to be a reach to claim that someone completely gets lost in a video game and starts to act it out because of some reality/fantasy blur. I'm sure if the guy was still alive like almost every serial killer caught he would talk about fantasies he had as a child that involved killing people.

Mass shooters generally die at the end of their shooting spree's but every serial killer we've caught mentions fantasies in their head since an early age that involved the killing of people.

I want to use training of military in law enforcement units as an example they repeatedly use training like video games so they react to a violent situation on impulse so not to waste time and think because you don't have time to think it is fire or be killed they do it over and over again so it becomes impulse
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Impulse and muscle memory are different than a planned mass murder. Sure, if train yourself to fire on someone that lifts a gun you'll get quicker and react faster but it's different than a blur between fantasy and reality.
 
Interesting that this is not being looked at as terrorism. I think the term has become PC and led to suggest religious affiliation. But the fact is a baseball game was postponed, Congress went in to lockdown, any way about it these moves were made because people were terrified. Call it what it is and then try to figure out why it happened. Perhaps someone made a YouTube video he didn't like.
 
tech30528 said:
Interesting that this is not being looked at as terrorism. I think the term has become PC and led to suggest religious affiliation. But the fact is a baseball game was postponed, Congress went in to lockdown, any way about it these moves were made because people were terrified. Call it what it is and then try to figure out why it happened. Perhaps someone made a YouTube video he didn't like.
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That's not the term becoming PC. That's the opposite of the term becoming PC. "Terrorism" has been turned into "being violent while Muslim."
 
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