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Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

You know this because someone said it was? Evaluate why you're so willing to believe it.

But also address the rest of my quote. Comprehend what is being said. One person isn't the entire problem.

The moral of this thread seems to be that Heterosexuals will seek out the truth, Gays will seek out the truth, but liberals will continue their beliefs no matter what facts are presented.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

The moral of this thread seems to be that Heterosexuals will seek out the truth, Gays will seek out the truth, but liberals will continue their beliefs no matter what facts are presented.

Then you're not listen nor seeking the truth. Few have said there is no reason to question, but have merely pointed out howe quickly you're willing to believe.


I've also pointed out how meaningless it is either way. He was still beat to death, and gays still face violence for no other reason than being gay.

So, put on your big girl panties and try not to be so sensitive. You're likely OK even if the original story stays true. ;)
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

I've also pointed out how meaningless it is either way. He was still beat to death, and gays still face violence for no other reason than being gay.

dr.jpg
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...


Odd you pick something that was accurate. The form wasn't real, but even the secretary said it did accurately reflect the situation. Still, I would have ask for more there as well. What are you asking for here?

However focus on this point:

The point here is that if it were proven to be not as portrayed, the real problem of violence against gays would still exist. Do you really argue otherwise?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

Odd you pick something that was accurate. The form wasn't real, but even the secretary said it did accurately reflect the situation.

You and Dan Rather are just about the only people left on Earth clinging to that.

What are you asking for here?

Who says I'm "asking" for anything. I'm just pointing out that you're doing what you have to in order to cling to something which turned out to be bogus, just as Dan Rather did.

However focus on this point:

The point here is that if it were proven to be not as portrayed, the real problem of violence against gays would still exist. Do you really argue otherwise?

That ISN'T the point; that's merely the point you'd prefer to focus on, and I am not required to indulge it.

The actual point is that a heinous crime was purported to be something it wasn't in order to push a political agenda during a Presidential campaign, as a smear on one of the candidates. I would say that itself is pretty hateful toward the victim, what with using his brutal murder as an inaccurate political football.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

You and Dan Rather are just about the only people left on Earth clinging to that.



Who says I'm "asking" for anything. I'm just pointing out that you're doing what you have to in order to cling to something which turned out to be bogus, just as Dan Rather did.



That ISN'T the point; that's merely the point you'd prefer to focus on, and I am not required to indulge it.

The actual point is that a heinous crime was purported to be something it wasn't in order to push a political agenda during a Presidential campaign, as a smear on one of the candidates. I would say that itself is pretty hateful toward the victim, what with using his brutal murder as an inaccurate political football.

You don't know that it wasn't. You're just overly willing to accept this. Nothing more.

And no, no one of significant changes Rather's point. The NYT's made the same case without the document. This doesn't mean Rather wasn't wrong for his actions. But, don't pretend they mean something they don't. And don't do the same thing here, pretending that anything has been proven.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

You don't know that it wasn't. You're just overly willing to accept this. Nothing more.

:roll:

I'm speaking within the context of your assertion that it doesn't matter.

You want to believe it doesn't, but it does, no matter what you'd like to shift "the point" to being.

And no, no one of significant changes Rather's point. The NYT's made the same case without the document. This doesn't mean Rather wasn't wrong for his actions. But, don't pretend they mean something they don't. And don't do the same thing here, pretending that anything has been proven.

It's up to the accuser to do the proving. Hint: trying to so with forged documents does not accomplish this, and that's the most charitable thing which could be said about it.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

Let this be a good lesson for anyone thinking of taking up dealing meth. Meth users will rob their own mother for that next fix. It's not a leap to envision them killing a befriended frail weakling for his stash.

Tim-
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

You know this because someone said it was? Evaluate why you're so willing to believe it.

Ok, so you still believe that a couple of redneck homophobes beat him to death....I'll give you this, once you buy into the liberal meme, you really go all in.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

:roll:

I'm speaking within the context of your assertion that it doesn't matter.

You want to believe it doesn't, but it does, no matter what you'd like to shift "the point" to being.



It's up to the accuser to do the proving. Hint: trying to so with forged documents does not accomplish this, and that's the most charitable thing which could be said about it.

In the larger view, no it doesn't matter. Homosexuals don't face violence because of what happened to one young man. And they still face even if the wasn't quite correct. So, not, to that issue it doesn't really matter.

Yes, no one said Rather was right to do what he did, either or purpose or accident. The point s there WAS other evidence. Nit only from Rather, but others.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

Ok, so you still believe that a couple of redneck homophobes beat him to death....I'll give you this, once you buy into the liberal meme, you really go all in.

Believe? I'm not faith based on this type of thing. Two young men were convicted. That's a fact. Motives are seldom simple. But you're the one willing to leap over everything, on yet another issue, without solid proof, merely because you WANT it to be true. It's not me doing this.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

Believe? I'm not faith based on this type of thing. Two young men were convicted. That's a fact. Motives are seldom simple. But you're the one willing to leap over everything, on yet another issue, without solid proof, merely because you WANT it to be true. It's not me doing this.

Best move on, J-Mac. When people know what you want to be true then there is little room for debate.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

Best move on, J-Mac. When people know what you want to be true then there is little room for debate.

If it weren't true, you both wouldn't be so sure. The second you guys hear the slightest thing, you leap in all the way. And you you never get tired of being wrong. ;)
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Either way, gay people ARE killed and beaten up for being gay, aren't they? I mean, years ago while riding around at night with guy friends (I was very young...you know how you hang out...and my boyfriend was there)...anyway, there were times where the guys (not my boyfriend) would joke about how they went gay bashing or were going to go gay bashing. They were talking about hunting down gays and beating them up. It's considered sport by some young men.

Skinheads and such like to ride around and hunt for minorities to beat up or kill.

This is not an uncommon thing. I'm surprised you aren't aware of it. There was even a video recently of a guy in drag in Russian getting beaten up by non-gay males.

But I don't know much about the Shepherd case, really. Don't know why there would be a gag order for a criminal case.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Either way, gay people ARE killed and beaten up for being gay, aren't they?

Today? Not so much no....I am sure if you want to say that a gay person somewhere was beaten up because they were gay you could probably do so, but then again, I could say that somewhere a straight guy was beaten up by gays because they were straight also, its just that neither of us have no proof of this....Isn't using broad generalized statements fun?

I mean, years ago while riding around at night with guy friends (I was very young...you know how you hang out...and my boyfriend was there)...anyway, there were times where the guys (not my boyfriend) would joke about how they went gay bashing or were going to go gay bashing. They were talking about hunting down gays and beating them up. It's considered sport by some young men.

Oh, years ago eh? un huh....And how old were you crazy kids? 15? I think either they or you were talking out of another orifice...Further, anecdotal evidence means nothing other than your personal experience anyway, it certainly proves nothing, much less the motives on why Matthew Shepard was killed.

Skinheads and such like to ride around and hunt for minorities to beat up or kill.

Wow, you would think listening to you that it is a common occurrence...I can't remember the last time I heard about it in the news....In fact, I have heard of more cases in the news of young black men attacking white men based on skin color than I have instances of 'gay bashing' lately....Yours is an appeal to emotion, and as such a fail.

This is not an uncommon thing. I'm surprised you aren't aware of it. There was even a video recently of a guy in drag in Russian getting beaten up by non-gay males.

Why? because you say so..? Nah, it is not common, nor is the example you give even in this country....Let's stick to the topic shall we?

But I don't know much about the Shepherd case, really. Don't know why there would be a gag order for a criminal case.

So, you don't know much about the topic of the thread, but you just felt that you just had to jump in and give your own (I think totally made up) anecdotes, and assumptions, and false narratives? Tell you what, there are 27 pages of posts, start at the beginning, and read both sides, and you will have a pretty good idea, then come on back...Oh and don't forget to actually read the articles presented as they will give you an insight...
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

I wonder if 9/11 truthers and Shepard truthers are the same people?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

There's a reason there's a law against "hate crimes." It isn't based on anecdotal evidence. You are placing too much importance on one incident and extrapolating it to mean something it doesn't. What happened in one case doesn't really matter much, when hate crimes exist. If you believe the book, which may not be true, after all.

So, the KKK didn't kill black people...skinheads don't kill hispanics.....men don't rape and beat up women regularly.....all these things are just anecdotes, in your opinion. Okay, well, head in sand is an appropriate description of you. I think you have something against gay people, minorities, women, and other people who have been the victims of others because of what they are. Why else would you want to take such a hard stance that an obvious truth doesn't exist? Did you believe George Bush's tale that the sky was green, too? (Iraq WMDs)
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

There's a reason there's a law against "hate crimes." It isn't based on anecdotal evidence. You are placing too much importance on one incident and extrapolating it to mean something it doesn't. What happened in one case doesn't really matter much, when hate crimes exist. If you believe the book, which may not be true, after all.

So, the KKK didn't kill black people...skinheads don't kill hispanics.....men don't rape and beat up women regularly.....all these things are just anecdotes, in your opinion. Okay, well, head in sand is an appropriate description of you. I think you have something against gay people, minorities, women, and other people who have been the victims of others because of what they are. Why else would you want to take such a hard stance that an obvious truth doesn't exist? Did you believe George Bush's tale that the sky was green, too? (Iraq WMDs)

So we have to believe the original Mathew Shepherd story or we hate Gays, women, Blacks, etc.?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

Ok, so you still believe that a couple of redneck homophobes beat him to death....I'll give you this, once you buy into the liberal meme, you really go all in.

There is no doubt that the perps are homophobes.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

I heard the author last night on the radio talking about his book, and an interesting thing is that he made mention that he was already under attack from people that just a week ago were calling him a friend....Then he told the interviewer that the ironic thing is that the people attacking him know he is a liberal minded person too....!

Another political tactic being revealed here. The power of narrative, and what to do when exposed....They will either

1. attack personally, and viciously

or

2. remain totally silent and continue on with the lie.

Allow me a slight correction, por favor.

I heard the author last night on the radio talking about his book, and an interesting thing is that he made mention that he was already under attack from people that just a week ago were calling him a friend....Then he told the interviewer that the ironic thing is that the people attacking him know he is a liberal minded person too....!

Another political tactic being revealed here. The power of narrative, and what to do when exposed....They will either

1. attack personally, and viciously

and

2. continue on with the lie.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

There's a reason there's a law against "hate crimes." It isn't based on anecdotal evidence. You are placing too much importance on one incident and extrapolating it to mean something it doesn't. What happened in one case doesn't really matter much, when hate crimes exist. If you believe the book, which may not be true, after all.

So, the KKK didn't kill black people...skinheads don't kill hispanics.....men don't rape and beat up women regularly.....all these things are just anecdotes, in your opinion. Okay, well, head in sand is an appropriate description of you. I think you have something against gay people, minorities, women, and other people who have been the victims of others because of what they are. Why else would you want to take such a hard stance that an obvious truth doesn't exist? Did you believe George Bush's tale that the sky was green, too? (Iraq WMDs)

You left out a lot of different types of victims in your post. Perhaps a refresher at the Thought Police Institute is in order for you.
 
Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

There is no doubt that the perps are homophobes.

You're lying again. That's all you do is lie.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Either way, gay people ARE killed and beaten up for being gay, aren't they? I mean, years ago while riding around at night with guy friends (I was very young...you know how you hang out...and my boyfriend was there)...anyway, there were times where the guys (not my boyfriend) would joke about how they went gay bashing or were going to go gay bashing. They were talking about hunting down gays and beating them up. It's considered sport by some young men.

Skinheads and such like to ride around and hunt for minorities to beat up or kill.

This is not an uncommon thing. I'm surprised you aren't aware of it. There was even a video recently of a guy in drag in Russian getting beaten up by non-gay males.

But I don't know much about the Shepherd case, really. Don't know why there would be a gag order for a criminal case.

I'm surprised you don't know much about the Shepherd case [bolding mine]:

The Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act, also known as the Matthew Shepard Act, is an American Act of Congress, passed on October 22, 2009,[1] and signed into law by President Barack Obama on October 28, 2009,[2] as a rider to the National Defense Authorization Act for 2010 (H.R. 2647). Conceived as a response to the murders of Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr., the measure expands the 1969 United States federal hate-crime law to include crimes motivated by a victim's actual or perceived gender, sexual orientation, gender identity, or disability. Matthew Shepard and James Byrd, Jr. Hate Crimes Prevention Act - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

I don't think that gays being beaten up has ever been a commonplace, but I do remember Paul Broussard, who was murdered by a bunch of high school boys who wanted to "beat up some queers" in 1991. It's 2013. At least in my community, "fag-bashing" doesn't go on, and I don't imagine that it does in most cities. The gay people I love and work with too are ordinary people like me who are settled and successful, and their orientation isn't even an issue, only an "is" among many other far more interesting and important facets of who they are.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

In the larger view, no it doesn't matter. Homosexuals don't face violence because of what happened to one young man. And they still face even if the wasn't quite correct. So, not, to that issue it doesn't really matter.

:roll:

That is merely the subject-change you wish to be "the point." We've already been over this.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez C...

:roll:

That is merely the subject-change you wish to be "the point." We've already been over this.

No, it relates directly to the discussion.

1) there is not enough evidence to verify this story.

2) even if true, it has no bearing on the larger issue.

Now, you can form a rebuttal if you want or are capable, but both comments are on point.
 
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