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Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
I'll repeat what I said to J-mac "I'm not accepting aynthing as fact" in this case as I haven't been invested in it since the gay rights movement is not dependent on this ONE case. I'm not for one side or another IN THIS CASE. I just find it funny that with ONE article all of a sudden people are claiming as "truth" their side and that all gay people should therefore not be trusted.
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And who do you see proclaiming "truth" as opposed to..."you know what...there just might be another side to this and everything you have been spoonfed just may have been a lie"
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

VanceMack said:
Not ALL...just the ones that have already come out and said...so what if it was all a lie...it doesnt change the fact that gay people suffer from 'hate crimes'. because...you know what/ it DOES change that 'fact'. What that would mean is that hate crime legislation was built on a lie. Its as corrupt as Al Sharpton defending the Tawana Brawley incident because, you know, somewhere out there SOME black girl was being abducted and raped by cops....
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It does change it? You mean gay people aren't targeted at all because they are gay? Really? You are going to take one case and then ignore everything else because of it?

I'm not saying every crime against a gay person is because they are gay, but there are definitely some cases where that has happened.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
So you're basing as "truth", the Advocate article? That's your rock solid proof that what you say is "truth"?
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No, not totally....This is an interesting development in that case, that makes for good debate on multiple fronts. Plus I think that the push back so obviously demonstrated by posters like you to even call contrary evidence to the narrative, evidence of a lie, is telling.

I am not trying to say I have a lock on the truth per se, but your constant objection to a term, rather than discuss the evidence I think points far more to an agenda on your side of the argument.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

VanceMack said:
And who do you see proclaiming "truth" as opposed to..."you know what...there just might be another side to this and everything you have been spoonfed just may have been a lie"
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J-mac was claiming that this version is the "truth". So I asked what he was basing it on.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
Yeah, and the anti-gay people are sooo tolerant and are such beautiful people right?
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"Anti" gay people? Nah...Im sure they are just as ugly as the intolerant pro gay ****heads. Now...lets talk about people that simply dont believe homosexuality is 'right' and dont think federal laws should be changed to mandate gay marriage laws. Do you classify them as "anti-gay"?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
No, not totally....This is an interesting development in that case, that makes for good debate on multiple fronts. Plus I think that the push back so obviously demonstrated by posters like you to even call contrary evidence to the narrative, evidence of a lie, is telling.

I am not trying to say I have a lock on the truth per se, but your constant objection to a term, rather than discuss the evidence I think points far more to an agenda on your side of the argument.
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But you claimed this as "truth", shall I post your comment again where you claim it as truth?

I'm waiting to see how this turns out personally. However, no matter the outcome it doesn't change anything with the gay rights movement or my support of it. I think gays should have the right to marry and I don't think someone should be fired because they are gay.

How should my support change if the article is right? Do you think people should just say "Well, they lied about this, so I guess they don't deserve any rights or protection." ?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
I'll repeat what I said to J-mac "I'm not accepting aynthing as fact" in this case as I haven't been invested in it since the gay rights movement is not dependent on this ONE case. I'm not for one side or another IN THIS CASE. I just find it funny that with ONE article all of a sudden people are claiming as "truth" their side and that all gay people should therefore not be trusted.
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No one has said that....That is a strawman argument by definition.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

VanceMack said:
"Anti" gay people? Nah...Im sure they are just as ugly as the intolerant pro gay ****heads. Now...lets talk about people that simply dont believe homosexuality is 'right' and dont think federal laws should be changed to mandate gay marriage laws. Do you classify them as "anti-gay"?
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I claim them as anti-SSM.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
J-mac was claiming that this version is the "truth". So I asked what he was basing it on.
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Well...if he based it on the book and other pro-gay rights groups review of the book then he would be judging based on the position of an author that happens to BE gay, interviewing hundreds of people, the admission of a prosecutor that said it was not about homosexuality but drugs, and on others opinions that have every reason to be biased against the book and yet arent. Now...Im not sure how we can describe that as 'fact' because we werent there, but thats a whole lot of factual evidence. As compared to...

your turn....
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
I claim them as anti-SSM.
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Good...so we arent "anti-gay"? Thats a relief.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

VanceMack said:
Good...so we arent "anti-gay"? Thats a relief.
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Not all people against SSM are anti-gay, but some yes. All Anti-gay people are against SSM, but not all people against SSM are anti-gay. That's just a fact right there.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
But you claimed this as "truth", shall I post your comment again where you claim it as truth?
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:roll: Good Lord TNE, post whatever you want. Maybe instead of posting what Jimenez writes about as "truth", you'd be more comfortable with me just calling you a liar, and claiming over and over that you are lying? There are some in here that do that too, but they are un credible, and do more harm to the argument I think don't you?

I'm waiting to see how this turns out personally. However, no matter the outcome it doesn't change anything with the gay rights movement or my support of it. I think gays should have the right to marry and I don't think someone should be fired because they are gay.
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Good, then we have some agreement on some part of this....Can't you see how if this narrative was built on a lie it would damage the movement?

How should my support change if the article is right? Do you think I should just say "Well, they lied about this, so I guess they don't deserve any rights or protection." ?
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Is that the only way you can see to approaching the matter? False dichotomy? Either or? and Strawman arguments? That sure is a lot of fallacy to approach things with you got going on there.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
Not all people against SSM are anti-gay, but some yes. All Anti-gay people are against SSM, but not all people against SSM are anti-gay. That's just a fact right there.
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ike I said...thats a relief. So...back to the intolerant types...would you say there are as a percentage more gays intolerant of antigay AND antiSSM types than there are as a percentage anti-gay types? And just what IS an 'anti-gay' type? As in...someone that doesnt agree with it but adopts the live, love and be happy mentality or someone that would stone all gays or somewhere in between?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
Can't you see how if this narrative was built on a lie it would damage the movement?
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Yet again, how would it damage it? Should people be against gays getting married or wanting protection from being fired if this article is correct? I don't see how it would change that.

The big picture is what I'm looking at and this article does not change that. The only thing it would change is this case.

Is that the only way you can see to approaching the matter? False dichotomy? Either or? and Strawman arguments? That sure is a lot of fallacy to approach things with you got going on there.
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Well how are people supposed to respond to this? Do you think it is going to change people's minds on gay rights? Don't see that happening.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

VanceMack said:
ike I said...thats a relief. So...back to the intolerant types...would you say there are as a percentage more gays intolerant of antigay AND antiSSM types than there are as a percentage anti-gay types? And just what IS an 'anti-gay' type? As in...someone that doesnt agree with it but adopts the live, love and be happy mentality or someone that would stone all gays or somewhere in between?
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Anything you or I say on the matter will be subjective, so not sure why you are asking such a question. I can give you my experience with the matter and I have seen more intolerance from the anti-gay crowd, but that is anecedal evidence so it's not going to sway you one way or another.

Anti-gay people (to me) are people that I consider that loathe homosexuals. Almost borderlining with "Tigger" mentality. That's why when speaking on SSM I typically label people for what they are anti-SSM if they are against it and not anti-gay.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

VanceMack said:
You do know that the prosecutor herself even came out and admitted the murder was about drugs and nothing else...right?

Like I said...even "The Advocate" is not so blindly convinced as you.
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That is a lie

The prosecutor said the murderer was high on meth when he committed the crime
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
That's all you got? Really? The narrative was absolutely set up by pro gay community to give legs to the lie.
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That is a lie

The narrative was created by the murderers confession
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

sangha said:
That is a lie

The narrative was created by the murderers confession
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Read the article.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
Did you even bother to read the Advocate article? Me thinks not with this statement.
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Did you?

The Avocate still calls it a hate crime
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
So you're basing as "truth", the Advocate article? That's your rock solid proof that what you say is "truth"?
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And he's misrepresenting the Advocate's article, which says that even if the book is right, it is still a hate crime.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

sangha said:
That is a lie

The prosecutor said the murderer was high on meth when he committed the crime
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You are just so cute with your "thats a lie" comments. :lamo

Even Cal Rerucha, the prosecutor who had pushed for the death sentence for McKinney and Henderson, would later concede on ABC’s 20/20 that “it was a murder that was driven by drugs.”
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
Anything you or I say on the matter will be subjective, so not sure why you are asking such a question. I can give you my experience with the matter and I have seen more intolerance from the anti-gay crowd, but that is anecedal evidence so it's not going to sway you one way or another.

Anti-gay people (to me) are people that I consider that loathe homosexuals. Almost borderlining with "Tigger" mentality. That's why when speaking on SSM I typically label people for what they are anti-SSM if they are against it and not anti-gay.
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OK...Im fine with the "tigger" anti-gay component. Now...how often have you seen pro gay individuals excuse and justify their across the board intolerance of anti-ssm types (people you accept as NOT anti-gay but rather people with a different belief system than yours) with cute little slogans like "I have no requirement to be tolerant of your bigotry!"? More than a few? Said it yourself maybe?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

sangha said:
Did you?

The Avocate still calls it a hate crime
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A 'self hate' crime...
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

TheNextEra said:
But you claimed this as "truth", shall I post your comment again where you claim it as truth?
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j-mac has posted multiple lies in this thread

He claimed he had the truth. Then he claimed he doesn't

He claims the advocate agrees with the author. They don't

He claims the prosecutor says the crime had nothing to do with Matthew being gay. He did not

He claimed the "hate crime meme" was invented by GLBT groups when it really came from the perps confession
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

How many times have FOX or MSNBC for that matter taken the "narrative" and construed it into national policy and laws governing our nation?


rocket88 said:
I didn't say that. Just that it's very common on either side of the Lib/Con spectrum - twist a few things to fit it into your political agenda and sell it to your minions. It's not a "Progressive Liberal" thing.
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