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Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claims In

Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
You are lying here....Again from the article...


Cal Rerucha said on 20/20 “it was a murder that was driven by drugs.”
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You are taking his quote out of context, which is dishonest

The prosecutor is referring to the fact that the murderer was high on meth. He was not referring to the motive
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
So, it would seem that a liberal journalist, Stephen Jimenez is coming out with this, and the liberal machine is not happy with him....It brings up a serious look into how progressive liberals construct 'narratives' though, and how to understand how they are rarely based in truth.

Thoughts?
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OK, the CONvoluted argument here is classic spin. The link is Huffpost, not a CONservative bastion of thought, so that leans against the liberal agenda crap.

The murder took place in that liberal bastion of Wyoming... :roll: Why- freaking- oming!!!!!!

The trial, not 'progressive liberals' built the narrative, so more CON crap.

in a very CON state, the very CON court system created the 'facts' that were made public.... this isn't some 'progressive construct'.

Sure some hate the new version, like some hate the Obama Birth Certificate or insist 9-11 was an inside job, but when HuffPo is your source you just seem silly trying to make this a progressive construct... :doh
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

sangha said:
The Advocate doesn't agree with Jimenez. They call the murder a "hate crime"
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Another lie... From the article...

"McKinney presents himself as a “straight hustler” turning tricks for money or drugs, but others characterize him as bisexual. A former lover of Shepard’s confirms that Shepard and McKinney had sex while doing drugs..."

So what's the hate crime? A bi sexual killing a homosexual?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
Another lie... From the article...

"McKinney presents himself as a “straight hustler” turning tricks for money or drugs, but others characterize him as bisexual. A former lover of Shepard’s confirms that Shepard and McKinney had sex while doing drugs..."

So what's the hate crime? A bi sexual killing a homosexual?
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From the article

That is, of course, a kind of hate crime — just not as straightforward as the one we’ve embraced all these years.
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Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

lizzie said:
I just find it hard to believe that his sexual preference alone was the motivating factor. That's just a little hard for me to grasp. Intentional murder is a crime of passion, and for most people to commit it, I believe there are very likely to be extenuating factors at play.
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For any given case I'd agree with that. But to have one case out there that isn't wouldn't surprise me at all. No idea if this is one or the other though.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

sangha said:
From the article
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Weak dude....Real weak....GLAAD, and the LGBT movement latched on to this from the start, screaming from the mountain tops about how this was done by redneck, bigot, roughians, bored, and out to attack a gay guy that they were threatened by for coming on to them, that is now the false narrative exposed. And you latch on to the Advocate saving a little face by trying to assert that the bisexual, fellow drug user, and occasional lover of Shepard who was convicted of killing him, did so because he was totally gay, and McKinney liked girls too? :laughat: Sangha
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
Weak dude....Real weak....GLAAD, and the LGBT movement latched on to this from the start, screaming from the mountain tops about how this was done by redneck, bigot, roughians, bored, and out to attack a gay guy that they were threatened by for coming on to them, that is now the false narrative exposed. And you latch on to the Advocate saving a little face by trying to assert that the bisexual, fellow drug user, and occasional lover of Shepard who was convicted of killing him, did so because he was totally gay, and McKinney liked girls too? :laughat: Sangha
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Yeah, how dare people believe the confession of the murderer over an anonymous letter? :lamo
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

notquiteright said:
OK, the CONvoluted argument here is classic spin. The link is Huffpost, not a CONservative bastion of thought, so that leans against the liberal agenda crap.

The murder took place in that liberal bastion of Wyoming... :roll: Why- freaking- oming!!!!!!

The trial, not 'progressive liberals' built the narrative, so more CON crap.

in a very CON state, the very CON court system created the 'facts' that were made public.... this isn't some 'progressive construct'.

Sure some hate the new version, like some hate the Obama Birth Certificate or insist 9-11 was an inside job, but when HuffPo is your source you just seem silly trying to make this a progressive construct... :doh
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:lamo I don't think you got enough cliche in there.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

sangha said:
Yeah, how dare people believe the confession of the murderer over an anonymous letter? :lamo
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Give it up dude, you are exposed on this one.....:lamo
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
Weak dude....Real weak....GLAAD, and the LGBT movement latched on to this from the start, screaming from the mountain tops about how this was done by redneck, bigot, roughians, bored, and out to attack a gay guy that they were threatened by for coming on to them, that is now the false narrative exposed. And you latch on to the Advocate saving a little face by trying to assert that the bisexual, fellow drug user, and occasional lover of Shepard who was convicted of killing him, did so because he was totally gay, and McKinney liked girls too? :laughat: Sangha
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Oh spare me.. The author is probably starving... and trying to make a buck.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
Weak dude....Real weak....GLAAD, and the LGBT movement latched on to this from the start, screaming from the mountain tops about how this was done by redneck, bigot, roughians, bored, and out to attack a gay guy that they were threatened by for coming on to them, that is now the false narrative exposed. And you latch on to the Advocate saving a little face by trying to assert that the bisexual, fellow drug user, and occasional lover of Shepard who was convicted of killing him, did so because he was totally gay, and McKinney liked girls too? :laughat: Sangha
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These highly strung people are really defensive about defending the myth, aren't they?

The truth has become less important than the narrative.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
Oh, so attacking me personally solve the question right? :roll:
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Hardly an attack, more a playful dig and I wrote it because I did feel it could help "solve the question" of you holding the opinion that a particular tactic is more or less common based on a person's perceived political viewpoint. On that basis, I thought the fact you were kind of using the tactic yourself was relevant.

j-mac said:
And the fact that a 'gay publication' the Advocate seem to agree with Jimenez, and the Prosecutor says that the murder was driven by drugs should all be ignored right?
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I didn't say anyone else should be ignored (quite the opposite it anything). My only point was that people who write this kind of book will often give a more extreme or controversial conclusion more credit that it maybe deserves because that will sell more books. The conclusion might be accurate for all I know but the fact this book was written doesn't, in itself, make it any more likely.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

HonestJoe said:
Hardly an attack, more a playful dig and I wrote it because I did feel it could help "solve the question" of you holding the opinion that a particular tactic is more or less common based on a person's perceived political viewpoint. On that basis, I thought the fact you were kind of using the tactic yourself was relevant.

I didn't say anyone else should be ignored (quite the opposite it anything). My only point was that people who write this kind of book will often give a more extreme or controversial conclusion more credit that it maybe deserves because that will sell more books. The conclusion might be accurate for all I know but the fact this book was written doesn't, in itself, make it any more likely.
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Did you express the same skepticism when it was first reported in the news, books and movies that Mathew Shepherd was murdered only because he was Gay?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Grant said:
These highly strung people are really defensive about defending the myth, aren't they?

The truth has become less important than the narrative.
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Oh I know, I have one rather comically using terms like "surrender" (As if), another claiming it is all just a sensational tactic to sell books, (even though the author himself is a gay liberal and started to write the book with a different path for it in mind), and one personally attacking me, and stating that I am the one creating false narratives....

It really is OZ sometimes....
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
No, I think I'll post as I see things...If you don't like it, then don't join the thread...It really is that simple...
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If you wish to post simple-minded polemics,you are certainly free to do so.

I am just as free to comment on such, however, and this despite your telling me not to.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Sharona said:
Where is the evidence that Shepard sold meth or any drugs?
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Did you read the book?
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Gardener said:
If you wish to post simple-minded polemics,you are certainly free to do so.

I am just as free to comment on such, however, and this despite your telling me not to.
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Ooooh *raises hands* "simple minded polemics" eh? Oh you got me good on that one didn't you, oh so smart one....? I am not telling you to do, or not to do ****! It's up to you if you want to look like a typical pseudo intellectual liberal failing to follow, or comment on the discussion at hand, and instead choosing to attack me instead with your *ahem* 'simple minded polemics'.....;)
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Gardener said:
If you wish to post simple-minded polemics,you are certainly free to do so.

I am just as free to comment on such, however, and this despite your telling me not to.
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This isn't like you, Gardener.

J-Mac never told you not to post, he just said that if you didn't like it then you shouldn't join the thread. That seems reasonable enough.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Grant said:
This isn't like you, Gardener.

J-Mac never told you not to post, he just said that if you didn't like it then you shouldn't join the thread. That seems reasonable enough.
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When the little socialist type leftists do the same thing it annoys me every bit as much, Grant.

Why people cannot discuss an issue without the constant pot shots against "liberals" is beyond me. Sure, I realize the notion of being a conservative is sold as identity by the Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannitys of the world, but it's really not as if there are these two monolithic groups no matter how a person might want to simplify the world down to that level.

I happen to hold views that are liberal on some issues and more conservative on others. It is this game so many hacks play where they try to force everything into some grand bad liberal/good conservative schism (or the other way around) that reveals nothing but doggedness and conformity. Life is a whole lot more complicated than a cowboy movie despite the way various posters try to make it.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

Gardener said:
When the little socialist type leftists do the same thing it annoys me every bit as much, Grant.

Why people cannot discuss an issue without the constant pot shots against "liberals" is beyond me. Sure, I realize the notion of being a conservative is sold as identity by the Rush Limbaughs and Sean Hannitys of the world, but it's really not as if there are these two monolithic groups no matter how a person might want to simplify the world down to that level.

I happen to hold views that are liberal on some issues and more conservative on others. It is this game so many hacks play where they try to force everything into some grand bad liberal/good conservative schism (or the other way around) that reveals nothing but doggedness and conformity. Life is a whole lot more complicated than a cowboy movie despite the way various posters try to make it.
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I agree, Gardener, but on these debate boards we have to make our points quickly or people lose interest, which is why controversy is sometimes necessary initially to get others involved in order to eviscerate them with facts later. Very Machiavellian.

We really don't have time to enter into all the nuances of foreign policies, economic issues, etc. It's all sound bites here, in a way, and we have to play hard and fast in order to keep the ball moving or people lose interest. That's just the way it is and eventually everyone understands that that's the way the game is played.

We all read between the lines, I suppose, and I see you as a good and thoughtful man with a sense of humor-and see the same in J-Mac. That's the only reason I commented.
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
So, it would seem that a liberal journalist, Stephen Jimenez is coming out with this, and the liberal machine is not happy with him....It brings up a serious look into how progressive liberals construct 'narratives' though, and how to understand how they are rarely based in truth.

Thoughts?
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This was already done. Jimenez produced a 20/20 with the same allegations in 2004.

20/20 does not put forward a single piece of incontrovertible evidence to back its assertion that drugs were the central cause of Matthew Shepard's murder. Its case is based on conjecture, sensational repetition of unsubstantiated claims, and sources whose credibility is highly dubious at best.

The show relies on interviews with sources seriously lacking in credibility, including but not limited to: Doc O'Connor, Kristen Price, Elaine Baker and Aaron McKinney -- all of whom offer stories that are contradicted by others and/or by the public record. In Price's case, her newly invented story suggests she may have committed perjury as well. It is doubtful that any credible news organization would use such sources as the foundation of a story.

20/20 ignores critical facts to advance its claim that anti-gay bias played no role in Shepard's murder. The show fails to examine McKinney's confession to sheriffs' investigators, which was one of the key sources of information about the anti-gay bias element in the case. 20/20 also fails to acknowledge that the drug angle it presents as news received wide coverage in 1999 as part of McKinney's defense strategy and as part of a "Harper's" magazine story that explored many of the exact same themes.
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Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

j-mac said:
:lamo I don't think you got enough cliche in there.
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Well you had more than enough right wing whine and CONvoluted stinkin' thinkin' in yours... :2wave:
 
Re: Matthew Shepard Murdered By Bisexual Lover And Drug Dealer, Stephen Jimenez Claim

notquiteright said:
Well you had more than enough right wing whine and CONvoluted stinkin' thinkin' in yours... :2wave:
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That was pretty good, notquiteright, but it needs more cowbell.
 
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