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Putin uses NYT Op-Ed to warn US against Syria strike

DDD said:
Except that Assad is the terror? He shot his civilians, schoolchildren and their weeping parents?

You have faith in Putin I see? His speech got to you did it not?
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First off. Your Assad claim is unsubstantiated. Secondly, I've been listening to president Putin since the beginning of the Syrian crisis and he has credibility.
 
DDD said:
Did it not occurred to you by now that perhaps Obama is certain that Assad did it but cannot use the sources to back up his claims because the sources work for Assad's inner circle?!?!?!
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And you know that how?
 
DDD said:
Well it has not fallen here. Where are these "many of you" at?
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You don't read much op-ed in American publications, that I understand, but there are people expressing similar opinions right here on this board.
 
DDD said:
So you know that there is covert work. Why is it difficult to believe that Assad's inner circle had been compromised by this covert work then? The President Obama knows something about chems and pins it on Assad for some so sure for such reasons perhaps?

If Obama tells why he is so certain you can be rest assured what would happen to Assad's inner circle convert! I can tell you this much though: Your beloved and concerned Putin (Amazing what media would have you believe) will not shelter the one like he did to Snowden, nor would he spread flowers on a shiny red carpet for the one within Assad's circle to jolly walk in slow motion low gravity moves neither!
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I have no idea what that gibberish meant.
 
DDD said:
I think for Putin assuming the role of USA's President and having to address USA's people is disrespectful enough.



Required because Russia can veto it. In the meanwhile civilians die from dictators that Russians support. There has to be a way around this and the USA uses it.



Because those nations use brute force against civilians.



Al-Qaeda, Al-Nusra, and some other independent groups are declared terrorists. The rebels themselves are fighting for freedom against Assad's regime.



Exactly, just pile up what the USA did, put a different tone to it, and you have a vision that USA is the bully instead! It is not Assad that shoots civilians or that orders chemical weapon attacks on them that it is the bully. Nah, that is normal. Wanting to intervene for humane causes and support human's rights as well as other United Nation's red lines is in fact bullying - is what Putin's propaganda there is all about.

You see there is plenty of stuff to argue with these. Starting from, why do you fall for rival propaganda as easily? I mean I could understand putting both perspectives into the table and analyze and critically evaluate the two sources. But what you have done throughout this thread is only point out moves from the Russian's perspective! Why is that?
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I can see you are unaware of the history of US atrocities, and haven't seen or else ignored all my posts on the Syria topic in a couple dozen threads so far.
 
DDD said:
Except that Assad is the terror? He shot his civilians, schoolchildren and their weeping parents?

You have faith in Putin I see? His speech got to you did it not?
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The civilian toll is the result of both parties' conduct. From the UN report released on September 11:

Government and pro-government forces have continued to conduct widespread attacks on the civilian population, committing murder, torture, rape and enforced disappearance as crimes against humanity. They have laid siege to neighbourhoods and subjected them to indiscriminate shelling. Government forces have committed gross violations of human rights and the war crimes of torture, hostage-taking, murder, execution without due process, rape, attacking protected objects and pillage.

Anti-government armed groups have committed war crimes, including murder, execution without due process, torture, hostage-taking and attacking protected objects. They have besieged and indiscriminately shelled civilian neighbourhoods.

Anti-government and Kurdish armed groups have recruited and used child soldiers in hostilities.

The perpetrators of these violations and crimes, on all sides, act in defiance of international law.
 
Montecresto said:
I'm on the side of the entire civilian population in the ME.
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Why would Putin care about them out of the blue? He has never carried about what happens to civilians while he supported previous leaders such as for instance Milloschevich? Why would he care of civilians now?
 
donsutherland1 said:
The civilian toll is the result of both parties' conduct. From the UN report released on September 11:

Government and pro-government forces have continued to conduct widespread attacks on the civilian population, committing murder, torture, rape and enforced disappearance as crimes against humanity. They have laid siege to neighbourhoods and subjected them to indiscriminate shelling. Government forces have committed gross violations of human rights and the war crimes of torture, hostage-taking, murder, execution without due process, rape, attacking protected objects and pillage.

Anti-government armed groups have committed war crimes, including murder, execution without due process, torture, hostage-taking and attacking protected objects. They have besieged and indiscriminately shelled civilian neighbourhoods.

Anti-government and Kurdish armed groups have recruited and used child soldiers in hostilities.

The perpetrators of these violations and crimes, on all sides, act in defiance of international law.
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The statement "both sides have committed atrocities" is always vague and aimed at pushing the curious parties away from the conflict. You see no one wants to hear details after such a statement. It is assumed that casualties are taken on both sides equally, 50%.

This is nearly never the case! If Assad systematically conducts atrocities to say thousands of civilians, and the rebels retaliate by killing only 1, the statement that "both sides committed atrocities" could still hold. If the reverse is to occur then the statement still holds.

What should be done is see which party is victimized most, and it is always the civilians! It is those that should be supported, their oppressors kicked (on any side they may come), empowered into a throne democratically, and then the ones who did atrocities to be indicted to a proper legal court. Never fall for the statement "well the two sides have blood on their hands" for it always undermines the amount, the methods, the details, that were used.
 
DDD said:
Why would Putin care about them out of the blue? He has never carried about what happens to civilians while he supported previous leaders such as for instance Milloschevich? Why would he care of civilians now?
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I didn't say Putin. You asked which side am I on.
 
DDD said:
This is the exact question Putin made. If there are facts they should be presented right? Well some could cost you good sources and hence should not!
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That's also an easy out for the government that has no proof.
 
DDD said:
You present perspectives that favors him far more than the reverse may be the case!
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Well again, on the Syria issue, the US is wrong, and has been on the wrong side from the beginning.
 
DDD said:
The statement "both sides have committed atrocities" is always vague and aimed at pushing the curious parties away from the conflict. You see no one wants to hear details after such a statement. It is assumed that casualties are taken on both sides equally, 50%.
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That's not the case and I never made any such claims. The UN reports state that the Assad government is responsible for more of the civilian casualties. No one knows whether that's simply because the government has greater capacity to inflict such casualties or if that's by choice. What is known from the UN reports is that neither side has paid much attention to civilian protection obligations enshrined in numerous international law instruments.

What should be done is see which party is victimized most, and it is always the civilians!
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The civilians are the victims in the brutal sectarian conflict. The warring parties are not.

The only practical approaches for dealing with this reality are to try to reduce the intensity of the conflict by cutting arms supplies to the warring parties (not likely, as too many outside parties are invested in the conflict) or negotiating a ceasefire (questionable, but perhaps the best option in the near-term). Later, some kind of longer-term political settlement could be pursued.
 
Montecresto said:
Why in the world would you call me a liberal? People who fear you, fear you! Do you respect anyone you fear. Respect is earned, and you don't earn respect by twisting on people's ears. You have a fantasy.
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That is the only respect a large percentage of this planet understands. That's what you don't understand.

Many cultures find our ways pathetically weak. They entirely reject our Oprah-induced ideas of what "respect" is.

If you can kick their ass, they respect you. If you can't, they don't.
 
DDD said:
I blame your media for this!!! They have been laying down and doing only newsworthy reports to the laypeople there!! They should gear up and do newsworthy reports to the interests of the whole country instead!!
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Unfortunately, our politicians and media now cater to the majority of our nation, which is made up of 5th-grade-educated lemmings that do what they're told. That's where the voting base is nowdays.

Liberals have been successful at infiltrating our media, academia, "research", and court systems.

Our own president studied our Constitution intently, not to uphold it, but to find ways around it and to destroy it.

We're in a bad place that I'm not sure can be turned. Thus, China and Russia will both overtake us eventually, I'm afraid, in a century or less.
 
Erod said:
That is the only respect a large percentage of this planet understands. That's what you don't understand.

Many cultures find our ways pathetically weak. They entirely reject our Oprah-induced ideas of what "respect" is.

If you can kick their ass, they respect you. If you can't, they don't.
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I consider that an absolutely pathetic assessment of how the world views America, but I understand your opinion belongs to you.
 
Montecresto said:
I consider that an absolutely pathetic assessment of how the world views America, but I understand your opinion belongs to you.
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No, that is how the world views the world. Your values are shared almost nowhere. Your sensibilities are your weakness in the eyes of the vast majority of the world population.
 
donsutherland1 said:
That's not the case and I never made any such claims. The UN reports state that the Assad government is responsible for more of the civilian casualties.
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Thereby it should be brought down to justice. It is also logistically more probable to deal with the side that committed atrocities of a lesser amount after the right people govern the country democratically.
 
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