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Iranian Official: Israel to Be ‘First Victim’ of U.S. Attack on Syria

fmw said:
What can I say. Most of the world thinks the U.S. is incompetent in foreign affairs. I do too but that's because we have decided to be the world's police force. That is a very hard thing to do. We should turn the job over to the rest of the world and them have a spin at it.
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That, I agree with.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I doubt Syria will do anything significant against Israel. Were Syria to do so, Israel has the capability to knock the Assad government out of power.
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So there's no need for us to get involved, then.
No more american blood for israel.

the jews hate us and call us "unclean" and Goyim".
The muzzies hate us and call us "infidels".

Let them work it out among themselves. We've interfered enough in the middle east. It's none of our business.
 
Montecresto said:
That is dependent on how involved Russia is willing to get involved. China/Iran, too. We see the potential for what Russia has already predicted, widespread chaos that Iraq and A-Stan would pale by comparison. Since Syria is no threat to us, do we want to risk that, just because we "think" regime change would be a good idea?
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My guess is that Syria won't fire any significant number of missiles at Israel. One probably can expect some kind of salvo from Syria's Hezbollah ally, but with growing instability in Lebanon between Hezbollah and anti-Assad elements, even that could be limited.
 
donsutherland1 said:
My guess is that Syria won't fire any significant number of missiles at Israel. One probably can expect some kind of salvo from Syria's Hezbollah ally, but with growing instability in Lebanon between Hezbollah and anti-Assad elements, even that could be limited.
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I don't necessarily disagree with that. But my point was that, we haven't seen the Russians this adamant for decades. Do we really want to risk that their threats are empty, that their predictions about the results of a US attack on Syria are baseless, just so that we can attack another country that hasn't harmed us? ANYBODY that supports this is insane!!
 
Montecresto said:
I don't necessarily disagree with that. But my point was that, we haven't seen the Russians this adamant for decades. Do we really want to risk that their threats are empty, that their predictions about the results of a US attack on Syria are baseless, just so that we can attack another country that hasn't harmed us? ANYBODY that supports this is insane!!
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The Soviet Union's collapse was accelerated because of overspending on their military to maintian parity with the U.S. buildup. Perhaps the Russians (and the Chinese) now see that by helping to keep things "stirred up" (while profiting from arms/nuclear sales to U.S. enemies) in other nations (supporting the Jihad?) will lead the U.S. to go down the same path - military overspending leading to economic decline.

The USSR was overly-focused on military build-up, neglecting domestic troubles that would play a major role in bringing down the USSR. This was largely due to the perceived need to keep pace with the massive U.S. military build up.
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Causes of the Collapse of the Soviet Union

In the middle 1980's about seventy percent of the industrial output of the Soviet Union was going to the military.
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The Economic Collapse of the Soviet Union

The immediate cause of the Soviet collapse was economic, as the Soviet Union lost the arms race and international competition with the West. The United States was able to profit from its imperialist exploitation of other countries, while socialism could only lose economically in that competition. By the end, the ruble collapsed as Soviet consumers turned to imports to satisfy their needs. They could not buy a good pair of leather boots or a good television set or a computer made in the Soviet Union, because all the boots and the electronics were swallowed up by military procurement. And, needless to say, there were no quality goods to export in order to balance imports.
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Collapse of Soviet Union
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The Soviet Union's collapse was accelerated because of overspending on their military to maintian parity with the U.S. buildup. Perhaps the Russians (and the Chinese) now see that by helping to keep things "stirred up" (while profiting from arms/nuclear sales to U.S. enemies) in other nations (supporting the Jihad?) will lead the U.S. to go down the same path - military overspending leading to economic decline.



Causes of the Collapse of the Soviet Union



The Economic Collapse of the Soviet Union



Collapse of Soviet Union
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Sure, that's a possible scenario. Another possible scenario is that Russia and China are genuinely tired of US imperialism/hegemony. Have you paid any attention to Russian/Chinese military expenditures in the last five years. The graph has shot straight up!
 
We'll see. Th EU papers reported that Putin has declared Russia will attack Saudi Arabia if the US attacks Syria. And what with all the saber rattling, Obama is kinda stuck. He HAS to act or he looks like an even BIGGER puss. But if he DOES act, who knows what the actual repercussions will be. Perhaps his best bet is not to bluff but to announce pretty loud and clear to Iran, Russia, and anyone else that their choice to attack others based on Syrian action would be extraordinarily unwise.
 
Montecresto said:
I don't necessarily disagree with that. But my point was that, we haven't seen the Russians this adamant for decades. Do we really want to risk that their threats are empty, that their predictions about the results of a US attack on Syria are baseless, just so that we can attack another country that hasn't harmed us? ANYBODY that supports this is insane!!
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What happens in Syria is a major headache for Russia. Unlike in Libya, Russia has some major interests in Syria. Any military action would demonstrate Russia's weakness to prevent such attacks. Russia feels its credibility is somewhat on the line. Given the interests involved and the balance of power, Russia will probably respond short of direct military intervention. Arms deliveries to Syria (perhaps at a scale to tilt the sectarian conflict decidedly in Assad's favor, sophisticated systems to make future military responses more costly, and possibly covert action), suspension of cooperation on Iran (maybe even full withdrawal from the international talks (P5+1 framework), and possible new arms deals with Tehran to make military strikes there more difficult are some options that are probably in the mix.

Finally, as I've stated in numerous threads, I do not support U.S. military intervention in Syria's civil war. Aside from the fact that no major U.S. interests are involved, neither party to the sectarian conflict has demonstrated much regard for civilian protections. No matter the outcome, Syria is not likely to pursue policies that are significantly more compatible with U.S. interests. The anti-Assad movement's continuing failure to outline future policy goals vis-à-vis U.S. interests over a more than two-year period since the conflict erupted speaks volumes. That the movement passed up ample opportunity to articulate its goals and aims is not, in my view, accidental. It is deliberate.
 
VanceMack said:
We'll see. Th EU papers reported that Putin has declared Russia will attack Saudi Arabia if the US attacks Syria. And what with all the saber rattling, Obama is kinda stuck. He HAS to act or he looks like an even BIGGER puss. But if he DOES act, who knows what the actual repercussions will be. Perhaps his best bet is not to bluff but to announce pretty loud and clear to Iran, Russia, and anyone else that their choice to attack others based on Syrian action would be extraordinarily unwise.
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Any papers making such claims are engaging in reckless journalism. Russia will not attack Saudi Arabia. Its interests simply don't justify such an attack and Russia is not an irrational actor. It very likely will take measures, but an attack on Saudi Arabia is not one of those measures, unless Russia were irrational (and it isn't).
 
Montecresto said:
Sure, that's a possible scenario. Another possible scenario is that Russia and China are genuinely tired of US imperialism/hegemony. Have you paid any attention to Russian/Chinese military expenditures in the last five years. The graph has shot straight up!
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...and they would participate with glee in any activity that (further) destabilizes the u.s.
 
VanceMack said:
We'll see. Th EU papers reported that Putin has declared Russia will attack Saudi Arabia if the US attacks Syria. And what with all the saber rattling, Obama is kinda stuck. He HAS to act or he looks like an even BIGGER puss. But if he DOES act, who knows what the actual repercussions will be. Perhaps his best bet is not to bluff but to announce pretty loud and clear to Iran, Russia, and anyone else that their choice to attack others based on Syrian action would be extraordinarily unwise.
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What? Where? When?
 
donsutherland1 said:
Any papers making such claims are engaging in reckless journalism. Russia will not attack Saudi Arabia. Its interests simply don't justify such an attack and Russia is not an irrational actor. It very likely will take measures, but an attack on Saudi Arabia is not one of those measures, unless Russia were irrational (and it isn't).
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Russia is using as its justification a reported threat made to Putin by a Saudi Prince "According to Kremlin sources familiar with this extraordinary “war order,” Putin became “enraged” after his early August meeting with Saudi Prince Bandar bin Sultan who warned that if Russia did not accept the defeat of Syria, Saudi Arabia would unleash Chechen terrorists under their control to cause mass death and chaos during the Winter Olympics scheduled to be held 7-23 February 2014 in Sochi, Russia."

Mind you...they will only attack if the 'west' attacks Syria.
 
donsutherland1 said:
What happens in Syria is a major headache for Russia. Unlike in Libya, Russia has some major interests in Syria. Any military action would demonstrate Russia's weakness to prevent such attacks. Russia feels its credibility is somewhat on the line. Given the interests involved and the balance of power, Russia will probably respond short of direct military intervention. Arms deliveries to Syria (perhaps at a scale to tilt the sectarian conflict decidedly in Assad's favor, sophisticated systems to make future military responses more costly, and possibly covert action), suspension of cooperation on Iran (maybe even full withdrawal from the international talks (P5+1 framework), and possible new arms deals with Tehran to make military strikes there more difficult are some options that are probably in the mix.

Finally, as I've stated in numerous threads, I do not support U.S. military intervention in Syria's civil war. Aside from the fact that no major U.S. interests are involved, neither party to the sectarian conflict has demonstrated much regard for civilian protections. No matter the outcome, Syria is not likely to pursue policies that are significantly more compatible with U.S. interests. The anti-Assad movement's continuing failure to outline future policy goals vis-à-vis U.S. interests over a more than two-year period since the conflict erupted speaks volumes. That the movement passed up ample opportunity to articulate its goals and aims is not, in my view, accidental. It is deliberate.
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I agree with all of that save one point. Assad has indeed made efforts to protect his civilians, that's why he has a 70% support amongst them. The terrorists, not so much. The civilian population is scared to death of them. The terrorist rebels have planted indiscriminating truck bombs, they have tied up civilians and shot them execution style, they have kidnapped UN officials and sniped UN inspectors and journalists and attacked and burnt Christian churches. Only the insane are supporting attacking the Assad government and giving more aid and support to the rebel terrorists.
 
Montecresto said:
Sure, that's a possible scenario. Another possible scenario is that Russia and China are genuinely tired of US imperialism/hegemony. Have you paid any attention to Russian/Chinese military expenditures in the last five years. The graph has shot straight up!
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Perhaps but one must also look at each nation's debt to GDP ratio.

United States Debt as a Percentage of GDP (1940-2012) | Visual.ly

China Government Debt To GDP | Actual Data | Forecasts | Calendar

Russia Government Debt To GDP | Actual Data | Forecasts | Calendar

While China and Russia are building up (saving?) the U.S. is busy currently fighting (spending?) in its "wars" on terror, poverty and drugs. The U.S. is spending a very large amount simply to replentish what it wastes in the ME - trillions over the last decade with precious little to show for it.

This may be simply the grasshopper and the ant parable playing out here.
 
Russia can be next after Syria - English pravda.ru

Despite the fact that the side responsible for the chemical attack has not been established yet (UN inspectors went to the suburbs of Damascus, where attack occurred), the United States and Britain have begun to build up their military presence in the region. Western politicians do not hesitate to announce their readiness for the military intervention in Syria. Washington and London have the support of Paris. Turkish Foreign Minister Ahmet Davutoglu said that his country would join any international coalition against the Syrian authorities, even if no agreement on the issue would be achieved in the UN Security Council.

"Russia still takes a principled position. It is shared by many countries, the UN Security Council, the modern superpower - China.
In the last 150 years, mankind has seen 12 crises of capitalism.
There are three ways out of these crises: revolution, dictatorship and war.
Modern capitalism looks for ways out of difficult situations with the help of military adventures. It was so in Iraq, in Afghanistan. In Libya, the French and the British are zealous, taking into consideration the fact that they have their own interests there."

"I do not exclude any version of events. But this is a great excuse to destabilize a huge region. It will lead to most serious consequences. The Americans feel uncomfortable to go there - they have not finished with two other bloody conflicts yet. They are looking for an excuse. The effrontery, with which they are trying to portray that it was the Syrian government that used chemical weapons, simply amazes me.

"We must remember that in today's world, the strong, smart and successful are respected. In the Mediterranean Sea, at the time when there was a war between Israel and Egypt, the Soviet government decided to prepare for a military action. The Americans called five hours later and said - take it back, and the war will stop. The war ended."


What makes Russia's Vityaz better than USA's Patriot? - English pravda.ru
Comparing their "Vityaz" to our "Patriot"...and theirs is better...They are laying the groundwork.

Western criticism of Russia getting more and more ridiculous.
Western criticism of Russia getting more and more ridiculous - English pravda.ru


First day of MAKS airshow sells 129 aircraft worth $7 billion - English pravda.ru
First day of MAKS airshow sells 129 aircraft worth $7 billion


During the first day of MAKS airshow in Zhukovsky, as many as 129 aircraft have been sold. The signed contracts were evaluated at about $ 7 billion.

The list of sold aircraft includes 77 Sukhoi Superjet-100 and 52 MC-21. The airplanes were sold to such companies as UTair, Ilyushin Finance, and Rosoboronexport. Sberbank Leasing signed a memorandum to establish a joint venture to promote the SSJ-100. VEB-Leasing has agreed to purchase 30 aircraft MC-21-300 in the amount of $ 2.5 billion.

The Russians are building up a case and showing they have the technology to back up what they say.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
The debt "ceiling" must be raised (again) and the one year anniversary of Benghazi is upon us, so it is time to get the focus shifted to "truely grave matters" in the world, the U.S. is at war and America must come together to fight this newest boogie man. We must put all partisan politics aside (give Obama much more borrowed money) to do battle with that most serious current threat to America (world peace?) - Syria. USA, USA, USA...
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Well.....we do have to get all those scandals out of the media. Bad PR and all.
 
donsutherland1 said:
My guess is that Syria won't fire any significant number of missiles at Israel. One probably can expect some kind of salvo from Syria's Hezbollah ally, but with growing instability in Lebanon between Hezbollah and anti-Assad elements, even that could be limited.
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Mornin DS. :2wave: I would think they would be more concerned with firing one of those P800 missiles at one of our ships. Especially if there is no Resolution by the UN Security Council. Then what can we do with no grounds to stand on.

Which in the meantime.....the Russians will sign the deal and then put the Military base in Egypt.
 
VanceMack said:
We'll see. Th EU papers reported that Putin has declared Russia will attack Saudi Arabia if the US attacks Syria. And what with all the saber rattling, Obama is kinda stuck. He HAS to act or he looks like an even BIGGER puss. But if he DOES act, who knows what the actual repercussions will be. Perhaps his best bet is not to bluff but to announce pretty loud and clear to Iran, Russia, and anyone else that their choice to attack others based on Syrian action would be extraordinarily unwise.
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Mornin VM. :2wave: Your kidding me. Russians said they will attack the Suad? :shock: This is in their papers? I already have a piece up saying Moscow is talking War. Originally it came from RT.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Perhaps but one must also look at each nation's debt to GDP ratio.

United States Debt as a Percentage of GDP (1940-2012) | Visual.ly

China Government Debt To GDP | Actual Data | Forecasts | Calendar

Russia Government Debt To GDP | Actual Data | Forecasts | Calendar

While China and Russia are building up (saving?) the U.S. is busy currently fighting (spending?) in its "wars" on terror, poverty and drugs. The U.S. is spending a very large amount simply to replentish what it wastes in the ME - trillions over the last decade with precious little to show for it.

This may be simply the grasshopper and the ant parable playing out here.
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Yep Ttwtt, and lets not forget here with the cruise missiles at 820k a pop. But then we will have to restock back to the level it is now. How many will be needed? Since the S300 can knock multiple cruise missiles out of the sky? Then they have the S200s. 240 of them ready to go within minutes.
 
donsutherland1 said:
I doubt Syria will do anything significant against Israel. Were Syria to do so, Israel has the capability to knock the Assad government out of power.
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Agreed, and it ain't even close, however, one thing that would help assad is an escalation in the region of any kind.


Tim-
 
MMC said:
Yep Ttwtt, and lets not forget here with the cruise missiles at 820k a pop. But then we will have to restock back to the level it is now. How many will be needed? Since the S300 can knock multiple cruise missiles out of the sky? Then they have the S200s. 240 of them ready to go within minutes.
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They may be expensive but just think how much safer we will be, as a nation, after blowing up stuff in Syria. ;)
 
MMC said:
Mornin VM. :2wave: Your kidding me. Russians said they will attack the Suad? :shock: This is in their papers? I already have a piece up saying Moscow is talking War. Originally it came from RT.
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Hiya MMC. Yep. I even saw an article from Pravda (durr...its listed on post 43) suggesting that after the US attacked Syria its likely they would attack Russia next. The USSR politburo is grinding and in motion!
 
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