Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic [W:212]

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

You prefer beastiality but chose to be straight? How often do animals "have" you?

Click to expand...

Go ask you mother, and while you're at it, give the old mare a swift kick in her arse and tell her to get supper on the table right quick. Now that's a good lad.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

Yes, it does.

What did they choose to do that turned them gay? If you chose to do the same, you'd be gay? Are their warnings about stuff that can make you gay? I've never seen such a label.

Click to expand...

Don't know. Don't care. Doesn't matter.

We need only recognize that the possibilty exists to understand that "I didn't choose" doesn't necessarily mean there was no choice in the matter. There are lots of outcomes that people don't choose that are nonetheless a product of behavior.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

Don't know. Don't care. Doesn't matter.

We need only recognize that the possibilty exists to understand that "I didn't choose" doesn't necessarily mean there was no choice in the matter. There are lots of outcomes that people don't choose that are nonetheless a product of behavior.

Click to expand...

What kind of behavior makes someone turn gay? I need to know because I like being straight and really have no interest in becoming a discriminated against gender.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

Yes, exactly... just because someone didn't 'choose' something doesn't mean that they didn't have any choice in the matter.

I don't know of anyone that 'chooses' to get cancer, but I do know a lot of people that smoke.

Click to expand...

Yo, Taylor...

So are you saying that sexual orientation isn't an immutable characteristic? I realize that there's such a thing as environmental sexual orientation, which is more along the line of a choice rather that sexual orientation being a circumstance of birth. Why does choice have to be involved with sexual orientation?

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

What kind of behavior makes someone turn gay? I need to know because I like being straight and really have no interest in becoming a discriminated against gender.

Click to expand...

If you're not already gay and don't want to be gay, I don't think you have to worry about becoming gay.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

If you're not already gay and don't want to be gay, I don't think you have to worry about becoming gay.

Click to expand...

I need to worry about it! You say people can turn gay by certain behaviors and I don't wanna turn gay, those people are demonized and discriminated against!

Please, help me to not become a social pariah!

Once, when I was a kid, my mother made me stretch out her new heels so I'm worried that I'm already on the way. Save me!

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

I need to worry about it! You say people can turn gay by certain behaviors and I don't wanna turn gay, those people are demonized and discriminated against!

Please, help me to not become a social pariah!

Once, when I was a kid, my mother made me stretch out her new heels so I'm worried that I'm already on the way. Save me!

Click to expand...

It's all part of the homosexual "agenda". Soon we'll all be gay and interior design will reach new heights of good taste. Somehow that's a threat to certain portions of our population. I can't tell is it's the prospect of gay sex or better style

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Removable Mind said:

Yo, Taylor...

So are you saying that sexual orientation isn't an immutable characteristic?

Click to expand...

Not at all... I'm just saying that the "people don't choose to be gay" argument tells us almost nothing with respect to nature/nurture. We most certainly cannot conclude that people were born gay simply because they didn't choose to be gay, as is often implied.

I should also point out that immutable characteristics can also be behavioral in origin. There are many examples of "critical periods" in development where behavior at a particular stage will irreversibly affect you for the remainder of your life.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

I need to worry about it! You say people can turn gay by certain behaviors

Click to expand...

No, I only said it was possible. Maybe it would be better to worry about your critical thinking skills than "turning gay?"

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

head of joaquin said:

It's all part of the homosexual "agenda". Soon we'll all be gay and interior design will reach new heights of good taste. Somehow that's a threat to certain portions of our population. I can't tell is it's the prospect of gay sex or better style

Click to expand...

I'm pretty ok with that. I mean, if I turned gay then I suppose I wouldn't mind being gay. And if everyone is gay then I will not be demonized and discriminated against.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

No, I only said it was possible. Maybe it would be better to worry about your critical thinking skills than "turning gay?"

Click to expand...

Possible how??

In addition to wearing heels once, I also wore my wife's panties once (on a military jump) (lost a bet). Am I at risk??

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

I need to worry about it! You say people can turn gay by certain behaviors and I don't wanna turn gay, those people are demonized and discriminated against!

Please, help me to not become a social pariah!

Once, when I was a kid, my mother made me stretch out her new heels so I'm worried that I'm already on the way. Save me!

Click to expand...

You're gay now?

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ChrisL said:

You're gay now?

Click to expand...

I might be turning gay! Taylor said that certain behaviors can cause it. I wore heels once and panties once, and I'm concerned that I'm well on the way. But he will not tell me exactly what behaviors can cause it. And so, I fear that I will be unable to avoid other things that will ultimately result in me being demonized and discriminated against.

But he doesn't care about me. He refuses to help me avoid turning gay.

It's a cold world.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

I might be turning gay! Taylor said that certain behaviors can cause it. I wore heels once and panties once, and I'm concerned that I'm well on the way. But he will not tell me exactly what behaviors can cause it. And so, I fear that I will be unable to avoid other things that will ultimately result in me being demonized and discriminated against.

But he doesn't care about me. He refuses to help me avoid turning gay.

It's a cold world.

Click to expand...

Maybe I can help? If not, there are always other alternatives. :mrgreen:

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

Possible how??

In addition to wearing heels once, I also wore my wife's panties once (on a military jump) (lost a bet). Am I at risk??

Click to expand...

That question has been answered and explained. If you don't understand it, you either don't want to understand it or are incapable of understanding it. Either way, I can't really help you, sorry.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

That question has been answered and explained.

Click to expand...

You have not answered or explained what behaviors can turn someone gay. Is it ok if I re-arrange the furniture?

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

ecofarm said:

You have not answered or explained what behaviors can turn someone gay. Is it ok if I re-arrange the furniture?

Click to expand...

As I answered and explained earlier, it's irrelevant to the point that was made.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

As I answered and explained earlier, it's irrelevant to the point that was made.

Click to expand...

The point is not made unless you can support it with some kind of detail.

I cut my own hair and sometimes my friends'. I use clippers though, not scissors. Should I worry about that?

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

Not at all... I'm just saying that the "people don't choose to be gay" argument tells us almost nothing with respect to nature/nurture. We most certainly cannot conclude that people were born gay simply because they didn't choose to be gay, as is often implied.

I should also point out that immutable characteristics can also be behavioral in origin. There are many examples of "critical periods" in development where behavior at a particular stage will irreversibly affect you for the remainder of your life.

Click to expand...

Nature/Nurture is complicated...and leaves science without some answers...so far. But when people want to state that they are rightfully able to claim that sexual orientation...other than heterosexuality.... is a choice, which gives them reason enough to support their bigotry. Well, its arrogant, along with ignorant to say, "Just because I made it up doesn't mean its not true.

I think there's enough scientific information that provides us with preponderance of evidence, which will ultimately side with sexual orientation being primarily prenatal development. which is indeed immutable. An I did use the term "environmental sexual orientation", which isn't a developmental devise. In other words, isn't formed within the state of prenatal development...at all.

I don't pretend to have all the answers, but for people who are hell bent on believing sexual orientation is like a handy behavioral switch that's simply been tripped by choice..and that it is completely out of the loop of natural prenatal development (other than heterosexuality)...hmmmmm...welp, that takes us to a lot of people who live in quite a moral conundrum inside their own heads.

People who are bigots...don't really need an excuse to be one...or even be willing to accept hardcore evidence, which would refute their wrongful beliefs. You and I both know it wouldn't make them believe differently. Perhaps being a bigot is an immutable characteristic as well??

Life goes on, Taylor. Regardless of whether or not sexual orientation is immutable or a choice. It's not grounds for bigotry.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Removable Mind said:

Nature/Nurture is complicated...and leaves science without some answers...so far. But when people want to state that they are rightfully able to claim that sexual orientation...other than heterosexuality.... is a choice, which gives them reason enough to support their bigotry. Well, its arrogant, along with ignorant to say, "Just because I made it up doesn't mean its not true.

I think there's enough scientific information that provides us with preponderance of evidence, which will ultimately side with sexual orientation being primarily prenatal development. which is indeed immutable. An I did use the term "environmental sexual orientation", which isn't a developmental devise. In other words, isn't formed within the state of prenatal development...at all.

Click to expand...

Yes, I understood what you said. I wasn't trying to correct/contradict, I was just pointing out that even if the cause were entirely behavioral, that doesn't necessarily mean that you could reverse things later on.

I suppose I disagree with the present state of the science (and for all we know there may be multiple mechanisms) - but we'll get there. Until that time, I believe it important to leave all options on the table, whether or not it's politically corr., because, that's what good science demands.

I understand your point on bigotry... that sort of thing really bothers me when directed at individuals, but not so much when directed at groups - mostly because there's a lot of it that goes around on both sides. Anywhere, really, where one group feels threatened by another.

Sorry to be terse - reading this back it doesn't have the tone that I'd like it to have, unfortunately (and with much frustration) 'm having to respond via cell phone.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Ontologuy said:

False, obviously.

The number of people whining in no way negates the whining from being simply that: whining.

Continue to feign dumbnesss in the matter if you wish -- that's just another form of whining about obvious realities that fly in the face of your pre-conceived ideological agenda.

Click to expand...

Still no evidence, eh? Where is that email? Where are those quotes? I know that you will never admit just how badly you have been defeated, and how completely your position has been proven wrong. As I have told you, my job is just to keep pointing it out and challenging you to prove what you have said (while you fail to do so) so no one believes your misinformation.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Ontologuy said:

Yep .. Dr. Rice and his team's silence on the challenge to deny that their etiological presentation makes homosexuality obviously a birth defect .. .. is golden.

Click to expand...

Since they never concluded or stated that homosexuality is a birth defect, nothing you said above is credible. Of course, you could provide the quotes that prove your position... if they actually existed.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Hicup said:

I've been saying this forever here at DP.. The narrative (And they all pat themselves on the back for it) being that we (straight people) did not choose our sexuality is a non sequitur. I've argued from the pedophilia point of view as well suggesting that there are a lot more potential pedophiles than there are homosexuals, and that is usually enough to send them packing and I see it worked for you as well. Secondly, I'd point out that "most" homophiles frame the question wrongly anyway. When someone says that homosexuality is a choice, they are not necessarily stating that the choice is a conscious one. The choice comes in many forms and is what I believe to be directly related to what environment you place yourself in and under what conditions that occurs. granted, my take is more anecdotal, and not provably factual, but it stands to reason that, homosexuality appears to be more about confluence, as opposed to any single set of criterion, example, conscious choice, genetic etc..


Tim-

Click to expand...

Hence, so is heterosexuality.

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

CaptainCourtesy said:

Hence, so is heterosexuality.

Click to expand...

With a few notable exceptions, I don't think we would argue otherwise. The choices are not equally weighted in terms of the support they will receive from natural biology, after all - though an individual may receive different genotypical indicators - the sexual model of reproduction is one evolutionary one. That is not a forbidding rule (it does not hinder alternate sexual expression), but it is a drawing one (it does insist on a certain portion, and gives greater weight to, a particular expression).

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Taylor said:

Not at all... I'm just saying that the "people don't choose to be gay" argument tells us almost nothing with respect to nature/nurture. We most certainly cannot conclude that people were born gay simply because they didn't choose to be gay, as is often implied.

I should also point out that immutable characteristics can also be behavioral in origin. There are many examples of "critical periods" in development where behavior at a particular stage will irreversibly affect you for the remainder of your life.

Click to expand...

Exactly, and anyone that understands how the prefrontal cortex works in prepubescent and immature kids is all you need to understand how our environment, in large part, (if not entirely) directs our neurological development as we grow into adults. So, when someone tries to frame the debate saying that "can you turn gay, or can someone not be gay", they are referring to people who are typically adults and have a mature prefrontal cortex already. Science has shown us that it is pretty near impossible to change behaviors as adults. Old dog new tricks come to mind? The "risk" of turning gay is well decided way before we are adults. The "choice" is in where we live, who we associate with, and our attitudes to our peers. Like I said, and I want to be clear as to prevent the homophiles from misrepresenting my argument, I have no verifiable proof of any causal nature of homosexuality, but I do stand by opinion with scientific fact that our prefrontal cortex is at the center of how it manifests in humans. How all behaviors and our being are manifest in this region of the brain.


Tim-