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Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic [W:212]

Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Lysander said:
"Tolerance is the virtue of a man without convictions."
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You just called Voltaire a man without convictions.

Are you going to say the same thing for incest? Beastiality? Polygamy?
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Incest has documented genetic problems. And we've seen this from humans to mice. Polygamy, as long as all parties agree to it without duress, heck why not? Just adjust the tax laws to accommodate and we're good. As for Beastiality, how is that even related to this?

I know everyone's works the same point being can't have a child the normal way man/woman without having sex...being gay means you aren't doing it the normal way so they must adopt or get a woman to carry 1 of the men's seed and not the other...
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Why does the capacity to produce children matter?
Why does it matter at all if it's genetic?
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Bronson said:
Animals are not gay. There is no homosexual instinct in animals.

Animals engage in such behavior for a variety of different reasons such as dominance. Not because of sexual attraction.



It doesn't occur in nature. Animals are not gay. Animals do not have a homosexual instinct. Animals do not engage in homosexual behavior in the wild because of sexual attraction, or love, ect. Confused stimuli, dominance, ect are the reasons.
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Are you saying that humans are not natural?
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Grand Mal said:
Which 14 words would that be, Lysander? Is the first 'We' and the 14th 'children'?
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He's a white supremacist. And before an unaware moderator dings me for "personal attacks," they can google "14 words" and find for themselves.

Do Not. Do. This. At. Work.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Deuce said:
He's a white supremacist. And before an unaware moderator dings me for "personal attacks," they can google "14 words" and find for themselves.

Do Not. Do. This. At. Work.
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Well that was educational. Hard to believe any one would actually advertise that.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Deuce said:
He's a white supremacist.
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I know. I know what the '14 words' means.
 
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Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Thing is, it not being genetic is irrelevant in the light of the fact that gays pretty much deserve the same rights as heterosexuals. If America cares to live up to its' creed.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Lysander said:
Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic | OrthodoxNet.com Blog
Hm. Here I thought it was genetic.Either way its not natural.
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Everything there is from Neil Whitehead, an anti-gay researcher who's misinformation is touted by NARTH and stormfront... two organizations who's misrepresentation and ignorance on homosexuality is well founded. The information you provided in your link does NOT draw the conclusion that you think. All it does is demonstrate that sexual orientation is not caused by one factor... something researchers have been saying for ages. It does NOT prove that homosexuality is not genetic.

Oh, and we know that homosexuality is natural, so you are wrong about that, too.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Lysander said:
Its not natural. The natural course of nature is to make children/young whatever you want to call it. Can't do it with homosexuality.
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Ah. Another one who doesn't understand the difference between procreation and sexual orientation. These are two different concepts.

Point negated.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Bronson said:
There is no scientific evidence that homosexuality is genetic

There is no gay gene
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Your argument has already been proven ignorant and illogical in another thread. PROVE there is no gay gene.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Bronson said:
Nope

In the wild when a male mounts a male, it's to assert dominance, power and control. There is no homosexual instinct in animals.

Animals engage in sexual activity because of scents. Like a female dog in heat for example can be detected by other dogs by the smell. Even female dogs in heat have tried to mount female dogs in heat. Chemical reactions to outside stimuli. To try and project human motivations and behaviors onto animals is bad science.



Heterosexuality propagates the species. To claim that heterosexuality is not genetic is anti science. There is no genetic proof that people are born gay. We're born with reproductive organs in order to reproduce. Didn't you ever take science in grade school?
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As I have said before, Bronson, you don't seem to understand the difference between procreation and sexual orientation. But enlighten us... describe the difference.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Bronson said:
There is no homosexual instinct in animals. I didn't realize liberals were so anti science.

I knew someone would bring up the gay penguins. You realize that they are now ex-gay penguins right?

SF Zoo's Same Sex Penguin Couple Splits Up | www.ktvu.com

So if we're going to use "gay animals" as evidence that homosexuality is "natural" then we can conclude that homosexuality can be "cured". Not only that, since we're using irrational animal behavior to justify human morality now is cannibalism a moral and civil right now too? After all, animals eat their young and engage in cannibalism.



No it doesn't. Animals aren't mounting other animals because of human feelings and motivations. Animals react irrationally to outside stimuli. There is no homosexual instinct in animals.
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Please tell us what a heterosexual or homosexual instinct is. And remember... since procreation is NOT the same as a sexual orientation, you cannot use it.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Bronson said:
There is no gay gene.
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Prove it, Bronson. You keep saying this, but you have offered nothing to prove your position. That makes your position irrelevant and inconsequential.

Your belief that such a gene exists is pure religious dogma. This study even hammers that point home even harder. Identical twins have identical DNA. If there was a gay gene there would consistent data to show that was a possibility. The scientific data and evidence point to the exact opposite however.
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This shows how little you know about genetics. Just because twins have identical DNA doesn't mean that they have the same number of COPYS of those DNA. Scientists have found small subtle differences in the genetics of twins.

So, as usual, you are wrong. Twins are NOT completely identical.

For more information on this, here is a link:

Identical Twins' DNA Varies | LiveScience

Male/female coupling is natural. It has specific social and biological purposes. It's propagates the species. Homosexuality is abnormal. Occurs in less than 5% (less than 2% most likely) and is associated with psychological abnormalities in humans. Homosexuality was classified as a mental disorder in the DSM criteria until it was removed for political purposes. Animals engage in those types of irrational homosexual behaviors because of dominance and conflicting and confusing outside stimuli.
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1) You STILL don't understand the difference between procreation and sexual orientation.
2) Homosexuality was removed from the DSM when activists assisted in getting relevant research seen. YOUR position has been thoroughly trashed by me and has been shown to be not credible.
3) Animals have been shown to exhibit both heterosexual and homosexual behavior. Tell us the difference between sexual orientation and sexual behavior.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Bronson said:
There is no gay gene
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Prove it.

This study further proves that. If homosexuality is psychological (and it is) it can be cured.
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The study is not credible and proves nothing. Homosexuality is not psychological, and treating it is unethical and would result in one being delicensed.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Ontologuy said:
This correlates with the recent scientific presentation (see below) that homosexuality is epigenetic in etiology, not genetic, two completely different etiologies.
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All of your information on the topic has been thoroughly debunked and shown to not be credible, simply because all of your evidence has nothing to do with your position.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Bronson said:
There are 5 people all giving me the same response so I'll just focus on this one

There are 2 major strawmen in your arguments

1) There is no gay gene. Evidence has just been found through a scientific study of identical twins (same DNA) that further supports this hypothesis. It is strong and compelling evidence. I find it absolutely amazing that you would dare claim someone doesn't understand genetics while completely ignoring the genetic data contained within the study.
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This information has been debunked since we know that a) there is not ONE thing that causes sexual orientation, and b) we now know that the DNA of identical twins is slightly different. You have been proven to be incorrect.

Nobody in this thread wants to talk about the study and for good reason. It's further evidence that homosexuality is a psychological disorder. That homosexuality can be cured. Human beings are born with productive organs that have specific biological purposes. Beyond emotion and not wanting to hurt gay people's feelings, homosexual sex isn't natural. Claiming it's natural because animals do it (for reasons that have nothing to do with love, sexual attraction ect) is a very poor argument. Animals also engage in cannibalism.
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Homosexuality has been proven to not be a psychological disorder. If had read the Hooker study you would know that. Since it is not a psychological disorder, the word "cure" is irrelevant. And of course it's natural. It occurs in nature.

2) Animals have an instinct to procreate. Biologically they have productive organs which serves a specific purpose. Heterosexuality as a condition is natural. A human beings inability to behave as a heterosexual (as this study further points to) is purely psychological. A condition that can be cured so the human being once again be one with it's nature.
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STILL don't know the difference between procreation and sexual orientation, do you?

I'm not going to keep repeating myself. If you want to talk about what the study specifically says, I'll be happy to do that. The science says there is no gay gene. Identical Twin DNA testing confirms this.
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1) The science does not say this.
2) Twin studies do not confirm this.
3) Twin DNA is slightly different.

In other words, you entire argument has failed and has been shown to be not credible. So, Bronson, you cannot claim that there is no gay gene, because you have not proven that, you cannot use the twin study argument since we know that twin DNA differs, you cannot use the natural argument, since we know that it occurs in nature, you cannot use the "homosexuality is a psychological disorder" because of the Hooker study, and you cannot use animal issues because you don't understand the difference between procreation and sexual orientation. Based on this, I have no idea what you are actually going to use in your argument, since all of your points have been debunked.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Texmex said:
And I'll take what God says about it over what anyone else, doctor or not, says!
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It is good to know that you reject science and facts. We can take that into consideration with regards to everything you post.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Lysander said:
I am a racist? Did I say that somewhere or are you just using that good ole talking out of ass thing again?
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Tell us about your signature.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Lysander said:
Then that would make them bisexual not gay. Sheesh.Oh and yes I know women can be gay. I knew a "lesbian" its funny she decided she was a lesbian AFTER she had 2 kids with a guy...quite amusing..
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Ah. You ALSO don't know the difference between sexual behavior and sexual orientation. Take a stab at it and tell us.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Deuce said:
He's a white supremacist. And before an unaware moderator dings me for "personal attacks," they can google "14 words" and find for themselves.

Do Not. Do. This. At. Work.
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I noticed it earlier. I'd like HIM to tell us what it means and represents.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Lysander said:
Either way its not natural.
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Welcome to the world of EPIC FAILURE.

Bad news for you is you're on the losing side of intelligent society.
Good news for you is you're not alone.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Orthodox.net seems to be an Orthodox Christianity site. A religious site.

It may be weighing more on the studies that shows that being gay is not natural compared to studies that show that being gay is natural. Doing so might be consistent on their perceptive lenses and intolerance on anything different to dogma.

Looking at the 14 studies themselves would have been a better solution for analysis. Later though those 14 should be matched with the rest of the findings for more solid premises of conclusion.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

That's interesting, because a quick google search turned up studies that show just the opposite. That homosexuality does have a genetic component.

Gay Men in Twin Study - NYTimes.com

The Importance of Twin Studies

It's almost as if Orthodox.net has an agenda and isn't reporting the information factually.
 
Re: Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

jmotivator said:
So, by your definition, homosexual sex among humans is unnatural.








You are just playing games now, right? You aren't this dense in real life, are you?
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No....it's pretty easy to understand. I'm not the one being dense here.

Better yet...why don't you find me a definition where man made cities and skyscrappers are considered natural.
 
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Identical Twin Studies Prove Homosexuality is Not Genetic

Redress said:
Well that was educational. Hard to believe any one would actually advertise that.
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Here's an interesting historical tidbit. Lysander was the Spartan admiral who ended the Peloponnesian War with his defeat of the Athenian fleet.

The Spartans, a tough militaristic bunch, widely practiced homosexuality. Oh excuse me bisexuality since they also married women.
 
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