• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

Caine said:
So the mere act of following your faith with a group of peers = pushing religion on others?

I fail to see how that is.
Click to expand...

There's a difference between a group of your peers (ie. a church) and a group of captive legislators, some of whom may not be part of your religious group. If you want to do it on your own, in private, knock yourself out. Once you start telling everyone in a group that they have to put up with your religion, that's another matter entirely.
 
ChrisL said:
And on the opposite end of the spectrum, maybe some people don't want to sit there and listen to stupid prayers that mean absolutely nothing to them. Why should they have to listen to a bunch of religious mumbo jumbo when they are there for a town meeting?
Click to expand...

There is nothing wrong with prayer. But what happens when a few Muslims kneel down on their prayer rugs?
People have differing views on prayer, and perhaps a few moments of silence would be appropriate.
 
Caine said:
WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH

PEOPLE ARE PRAYING!!!!1111!!!!! HOW DARE THEY!!!

THATS MY .000000001 CENT THAT WENT TOWARDS THAT TWO MINUTE PRAYER!!! I WANT IT BACK!!!!!!

WAHHHHHHHH

crying-baby-0509-lg.jpg
Click to expand...

Well maybe some people simply get tired of hearing all of you super religious folks proselytizing all the time, judging everyone else according to ridiculous religious standards, and being SOOOOO self-righteous.

God is probably sick of hearing you people too. :lol:
 
I understand the need to keep religion and government separate,but isn't there plenty of other things to bitch about politicians for than praying? The average income in my area is $100,000 and we still can't get our town council to fill in a pothole. Is Rowen County such a Utopia that people here can't find something else to bitch about?
 
Cephus said:
There's a difference between a group of your peers (ie. a church) and a group of captive legislators, some of whom may not be part of your religious group. If you want to do it on your own, in private, knock yourself out. Once you start telling everyone in a group that they have to put up with your religion, that's another matter entirely.
Click to expand...


"captive legislators"

You do realize "legislators" in any facade of the government are not required to be there - and at times many aren't? This includes simple municipal governments.

So now that we have established the fact that no one is FORCED to be there - that means people are only there on account of free will. So you can either listen to the prayer or not be there when the prayer is taking place. Sorry to explain that the majority will always overrule the minority in simple social situations like this.

Furthermore, anyone who would make a big deal about this has personality issues...
 
ChrisL said:
Well maybe some people simply get tired of hearing all of you super religious folks proselytizing all the time, judging everyone else according to ridiculous religious standards, and being SOOOOO self-righteous.

God is probably sick of hearing you people too. :lol:
Click to expand...

You're the one doing the judging here missy...

If you don't like prayer then don't go poking your beak around places where you can find prayer...

People like you look for trouble...
 
Mr.Nick said:
Furthermore, anyone who would make a big deal about this has personality issues...
Click to expand...

Anyone who believes in that religious crap has fantasy issues.
 
Mr.Nick said:
You're the one doing the judging here missy...

If you don't like prayer then don't go poking your beak around places where you can find prayer...

People like you look for trouble...
Click to expand...

No, people who go to town meetings are NOT looking for trouble. They just don't want to hear a bunch of religious people praying everywhere, and the shouldn't have to either. Super religious people are just plain annoying IMO. Pray to your damn self and spare us your hypocrisy.
 
lolabird said:
There is nothing wrong with prayer. But what happens when a few Muslims kneel down on their prayer rugs?
People have differing views on prayer, and perhaps a few moments of silence would be appropriate.
Click to expand...

No, progressives ONLY change their view on prayer then. Because Muslims are a minority and progressives are incapable of criticizing or questioning minorities.

Muslims have the same civil liberties and right to pray as any other US citizen however, Muslims don't pray like Christians so I wouldn't expect them to open a meeting with a prayer.
 
Mr.Nick said:
No, progressives ONLY change their view on prayer then. Because Muslims are a minority and progressives are incapable of criticizing or questioning minorities.

Muslims have the right to pray too however, Muslims don't pray like Christians so I wouldn't expect them to open a meeting with a prayer.
Click to expand...

Ha-ha!! You've got it backwards there buddy. It's you religious people who change your tune whenever another religion is involved that doesn't necessarily agree with your religion. You want to allow Christian prayer and not any other.

The whole situation is dumb. Just leave your prayers out of it. All it does is delay things. Then, we have more Muslim and other religious denominations, they're going to want to say their stupid prayers too. Then, the whole town meeting would be dominated by all of these useless prayers. It's so stupid.
 
ChrisL said:
No, people who go to town meetings are NOT looking for trouble. They just don't want to hear a bunch of religious people praying everywhere, and the shouldn't have to either. Super religious people are just plain annoying IMO. Pray to your damn self and spare us your hypocrisy.
Click to expand...

Nonsense - Town hall is exactly where wannabe pundits go to look for trouble.

Furthermore I don't give a **** if you want to hear prayer or not - prayer/religion is a protected civil liberty.

Besides, I'm sure there is plenty of nonsense spewed at town hall meetings that people don't want to hear however you don't see them attacking the idea of "free exchange of ideas."
 
Mr.Nick said:
Nonsense - Town hall is exactly where wannabe pundits go to look for trouble.

Furthermore I don't give a **** if you want to hear prayer or not - prayer/religion is a protected civil liberty.

Besides, I'm sure there is plenty of nonsense spewed at town hall meetings that people don't want to hear however you don't see them attacking the idea of "free exchange of ideas."
Click to expand...

Town hall meetings are not about religion. Period. Nobody cares about your religion or your religious beliefs and nobody wants to hear about it either. A lot of us don't want religion involved in our government or governmental proceedings/processes.
 
Ikari said:
Lots of people and groups push for the double standard. Though I don't quite see it in this case given the private nature of Churches.
Click to expand...

Claiming private status to avoid having people speak about religions other than theirs, and then labeling virtually all other platforms as public is the double standard.
 
ChrisL said:
Ha-ha!! You've got it backwards there buddy. It's you religious people who change your tune whenever another religion is involved that doesn't necessarily agree with your religion. You want to allow Christian prayer and not any other.

The whole situation is dumb. Just leave your prayers out of it. All it does is delay things. Then, we have more Muslim and other religious denominations, they're going to want to say their stupid prayers too. Then, the whole town meeting would be dominated by all of these useless prayers. It's so stupid.
Click to expand...

"You religious people"

Well I suppose I go to church however I'm a far cry from a "bible thumper."

I'm a libertarian and religion and prayer are protected under the First Amendment of the United States Bill of Rights and I will defend our Bill of Rights and civil liberties with my life if needed.

So I don't really give a **** about your politics or your reasoning as to why you're opposed - the simple fact you're minimizing and propagandizing the Bill of Rights is enough for me to set you straight..
 
apdst said:
I thought you were against pushing religion on others.
Click to expand...

I most certainly am.

My previous post served to illustrate how hypocritical your position is.
 
Mr.Nick said:
"You religious people"

Well I suppose I go to church however I'm a far cry from a "bible thumper."

I'm a libertarian and religion and prayer are protected under the First Amendment of the United States Bill of Rights and I will defend our Bill of Rights and civil liberties with my life if needed.

So I don't really give a **** about your politics or your reasoning as to why you're opposed - the simple fact you're minimizing and propagandizing the Bill of Rights is enough for me to set you straight..
Click to expand...

Not allowing prayer during a governmental proceeding is NOT violating anyone's civil liberties. That is retarded.

Besides, all of this prayer is just for show anyway, so that some self-righteous jerks can be like "oh, look at me, I'm praying. That makes me a good person." As if. Otherwise, they could just pray to themselves in silence.
 
jimbo said:
Actually they could. It would be up to the church and its congregation to decide whether or not they would be welcome. Not so with government meetings. Government supposedly serves all its constituents equally.

There are two answers. No prayers or everybody gets their turn. Do you really want dozens of religions to pray publically before each meeting?
Click to expand...

No. Which is why no one religion should speak at government meetings period.
 
ChrisL said:
Town hall meetings are not about religion. Period. Nobody cares about your religion or your religious beliefs and nobody wants to hear about it either. A lot of us don't want religion involved in our government or governmental proceedings/processes.
Click to expand...

Town hall meeting could be about religion - it just matters whats on the agenda.

"no one cares"

Really?

I think this thread would beg to differ..

Look, your opinion of what is "right and wrong" doesn't trump the Bill of Rights - as a matter of fact that's why we have a manifested Bill of Rights in the first place - so tyrants like you cant legislate freedom from others.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Town hall meeting could be about religion - it just matters whats on the agenda.

"no one cares"

Really?

I think this thread would beg to differ..

Look, your opinion of what is "right and wrong" doesn't trump the Bill of Rights - as a matter of fact that's why we have a manifested Bill of Rights in the first place - so tyrants like you cant legislate freedom from others.
Click to expand...

The only tyrants are the ones who want to force their religious views on everyone else.
 
Caine said:
So WTF do you care? Ignore it. People who listen to stupid ass rap music feel the need to blast it so loud everyone can hear it within a half mile down the road for some reason....... What do people do? IGNORE IT.

There is no need to involve everyone in a half square mile in someone's choice of music either.
And you don't dictate to others how they will adhere to their religion. That would be prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
That is how you feel it because you are an anti-christian crusader.

I give two ****s about Christianity, Jesus, "Holy Mary" or any of that crap..... but they have just as much right to pray before a meeting, and christians in general have the right to pray out loud if they so wish.
Click to expand...

A street and a government meeting are two entirely different landscapes.

At a meeting, you are taking advantage of a captive audience.

The very act of praying outloud is attention seeking. Prayer does not have to be verbalized or done publicly to be effective.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Nonsense - Town hall is exactly where wannabe pundits go to look for trouble.

Furthermore I don't give a **** if you want to hear prayer or not - prayer/religion is a protected civil liberty.

Besides, I'm sure there is plenty of nonsense spewed at town hall meetings that people don't want to hear however you don't see them attacking the idea of "free exchange of ideas."
Click to expand...

So just out of curiosity, do you attend town hall meetings or city council or school board (shudder) meetings? I ask because with the exception of the last, I have and do sometimes. What I've noticed is that those who are politically engaged on the local level are, irrespective of their positions, generally earnest, prepared, and respectful--definitely not "looking for trouble."
 
Knowledge=power said:
Claiming private status to avoid having people speak about religions other than theirs, and then labeling virtually all other platforms as public is the double standard.
Click to expand...

That or churches are private and outside and government buildings are public.
 
Caine said:
CHURCH? No.

If the County Council wanted to open with a Hindu prayer or Muslim or Jewish or whatnot, then they are free to do so.
Click to expand...

People don't go to churches and open the sermon with a rant about economics or government policies and agendas.

The two (church and state) are separate for a reason.
 
ChrisL said:
Not allowing prayer during a governmental proceeding is NOT violating anyone's civil liberties. That is retarded.

Besides, all of this prayer is just for show anyway, so that some self-righteous jerks can be like "oh, look at me, I'm praying. That makes me a good person." As if. Otherwise, they could just pray to themselves in silence.
Click to expand...

It's actually a blatant violation of the First Amendment...

Despite what you have been brainwashed with - "separation of church and state" does not exist..

"separation of church and state" is First Amendment propaganda drilled into the US public by communists.

If you show me anywhere in our founding documents wording that even implies "separation of church and state" I will pull a rabbit out my ass...
 
I imagine one day we might have to have multiple prayer sessions/religious services before any kind of government meetings so that the religious people can get it out of their systems. :roll:
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom