• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

The Constitution says this....." Article 13 Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. "

It does not say it is illegal to pray, nor are there any words alluding to 'separation of church and state' which is a catch phrase invented by liberals who swear it is stated in the Constitution.


Progressives interpret "abridging" as non-compliance.

Get the right judge (one of those judges that were backed by labor unions) and you get your ruling...

Why?

Because progressives are more concerned bout what government can give them than what they can give the nation as a productive citizen.
 
The problem for you "Libertarians" who are so forthrightly defending the right of some small town pols to babble about their religious beliefs is that these clowns ARE trying to establish a "state religion"

A state religion? What

Since Republicans swept the North Carolina state government, from the statehouse to the House and Senate, the tilt right has been unmistakable. But the latest move out of Raleigh has even a lot of die-hard conservatives shaking their heads. Two representatives from Rowan County have submitted a resolution that would give North Carolina, its counties and towns the right to establish an official religion.

You know you’ve stepped over religious and constitutional boundaries when evangelist Franklin Graham thinks you’ve gone too far.

That was April of this year and the proposal got shot down but approximately one-third of Americans are in favour of Christianity being established as the official religion of the United States.
 
Prove it.
Ok.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ...."
When Jefferson wrote about this he stated in a letter to another church (i forgot the name), "I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State. Adhering to this expression of the supreme will of the nation in behalf of the rights of conscience"



One day, the legislators were free to pray, the next day that freedom is somewhat restricted. You can argue the merits of putting restraints on religion all you want, but you insult my intelligence by trying to frame intervention and restriction as being something other than a removal of freedom.
No one is saying that cant pray. They cannot pray as everyday business on the record as official "business" as the stat legislator.
 
Why are you denying that socialists exist in the United States and many progressives are sympathetic?

You act like it's a lie that socialists exist because guys like Glenn Beck understand the prerequisites of a socialist based revolution...

It's not exactly like this is the first time socialists have attempted to coup a government - people who enjoy history generally understand the social conditions preceding a coup - you "liberals" call it "progress."

Oh god... The socialists have come into this now. :lamo
 
You may as well say one must be an atheist to hold a government position....

The First Amendment states that government cannot force individuals by law to adhere to any specific religion, it also states that government cannot impede an individual by law from practicing religion..

The government is not an individual and an individual is not the government - two different ideas. The government is a collection of individuals whom naturally are entitled to civil liberties, one of them being the First Amendment, hence are free to pray anytime they want. Preventing them from doing such would be a violation of those individuals civil rights.




I have the right to speak, but I can't show up at a government meeting and just start talking; I have the right to smoke, but I cannot show up in a government office and light up; I have the right to have a beer, but I can't pop the lid in a government office.....It is your right to pray--but do it at home, in church, in your car, but not in a government office....
 
:shrug: - I won't apologize for people can't keep their religions at home and church.

:shrug: I won't apologize for people praying in public just because you have personal problems you need to work through.
 
I have the right to speak, but I can't show up at a government meeting and just start talking; I have the right to smoke, but I cannot show up in a government office and light up; I have the right to have a beer, but I can't pop the lid in a government office.....It is your right to pray--but do it at home, in church, in your car, but not in a government office....

At least you asked..

NO...
 
There is no concept...

"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"

What is so ****ing hard to understand about those two sentences?

That **** is easier to interpret than a Dr. Seuss entry.

All it means is that theocracies are banned and people can worship how, when and wherever they please.

That's all it means....

It doesn't mean that elected officials cant pray, or that bibles should be banned from public libraries or that a group cant pray before a town hall meeting.... It means none of that....

It's so easy to interpret, yet it comes up in courts time and again. Turns out we just needed to put you on the Supreme Court :roll:

Theocracy and establishment of a state religion are not the same thing. Of course the whole thing is just a communist plot anyway..:roll:
 
It's so easy to interpret, yet it comes up in courts time and again. Turns out we just needed to put you on the Supreme Court :roll:

Theocracy and establishment of a state religion are not the same thing. Of course the whole thing is just a communist plot anyway..:roll:

You do realize that you're arguing the First vs the Tenth Amendment right?

I think you want the Bill of Rights to contradict itself but don't want to deal with the bull**** if it doesn't.
 
Why are you denying that socialists exist in the United States and many progressives are sympathetic?

You act like it's a lie that socialists exist because guys like Glenn Beck understand the prerequisites of a socialist based revolution...

It's not exactly like this is the first time socialists have attempted to coup a government - people who enjoy history generally understand the social conditions preceding a coup - you "liberals" call it "progress."

No, it's stupid because it's telling the other side what they "really" believe. I could write a book saying that when a fascist revolution comes, it'll be from people who read Ayn Rand and think they understand the Constitution better than every Supreme Court justice there ever was.

Now deny it. Maybe I'm just a genius who "understands the principles of a fascist based revolution."
 
It's so easy to interpret, yet it comes up in courts time and again. Turns out we just needed to put you on the Supreme Court :roll:

Theocracy and establishment of a state religion are not the same thing. Of course the whole thing is just a communist plot anyway..:roll:

"maybe" you belong in a Russian gulag?
 
Ok.
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion...

For all of those that might have impaired reading comprehension, please read the underlined several times over and over until it sinks in.

It doesn't say they shouldn't pray before the session, if they choose. It doesn't say kids can't pray in school. It says congress can't pass a law establishing a Church of America, similar to the Church of England.

If you know your history, you'd know why. In jolly old England, there was an established religion (the Church of England was the official church of the land, and it was, during several periods in English history, illegal to practice any other religion or be a member of any other church).

The point of the American law was to prevent such a thing from happening here, so that we could enjoy the freedom to practice our own religion without the government forcing one on us.

Nowadays, the meaning of the law has been skewed beyond recognition, and rather than establish a freedom to worship as one wishes (as was the law's intent), the government uses the law to stifle religious expression and to force secularism on everyone.

Not that it matters. The constitution is NOT the law of the land, the Supreme Court's INTERPRETATION of the constitution is. We all know people interpret things along party lines.... and the Supreme Court has proven no different. There is no check nor balance to that kind of power.
 
No, it's stupid because it's telling the other side what they "really" believe. I could write a book saying that when a fascist revolution comes, it'll be from people who read Ayn Rand and think they understand the Constitution better than every Supreme Court justice there ever was.

Let "it" believe whatever promotes their confidence.
 
Last edited:
It's so easy to interpret, yet it comes up in courts time and again. Turns out we just needed to put you on the Supreme Court :roll:

Theocracy and establishment of a state religion are not the same thing. Of course the whole thing is just a communist plot anyway..:roll:

Ha, you're worried about prayer while 9 clowns "interpret" a Dr. Seuss book.....
 
"maybe" you belong in a Russian gulag?

Moderator's Warning:
Maybe you should stop making personal attacks and just stick to the topic.
 
You seriously don't understand that the first amendment voids intrusion of religion into governments as well as separates government from enforcing a religion as it would violate the very notion of a first amendment? Seriously? Lol, spare me your McCarthyist blog. Freedom from religion is older than the 1960s.

Praying is neither "intrusion" nor "enforcement"

Its just "adherence" by the individuals involved.
 
The problem here is that Christians in particular feel the need to pray in groups or out loud for some reason.
So WTF do you care? Ignore it. People who listen to stupid ass rap music feel the need to blast it so loud everyone can hear it within a half mile down the road for some reason....... What do people do? IGNORE IT.

There is no need to involve everyone in the room when you feel the need to pray.
There is no need to involve everyone in a half square mile in someone's choice of music either.
There is no need to say the words out loud. If one is truly comfortable with his religion, a silent prayer is more than satisfactory.
And you don't dictate to others how they will adhere to their religion. That would be prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
The need to do it at a public gathering is just prideful show and an attempt to be heard for whatever asinine reason.
That is how you feel it because you are an anti-christian crusader.

I give two ****s about Christianity, Jesus, "Holy Mary" or any of that crap..... but they have just as much right to pray before a meeting, and christians in general have the right to pray out loud if they so wish.
 
It doesn't matter. Less you can demonstrate some amount of significant decline in productivity or quality, it's a null factor. No one is being forced to pay for prayer if an employee prays at work. There are far greater inefficiencies which dominate the work place than prayer and it's at worst a null factor. Though it could have positive effects by making for happier employees.

As for this case here, it also doesn't matter. They can have any prayer they want so long as they realize that as government they cannot act on laws of gods.

Woot Woot...

More stuff Ikari and I actually agree on.
 
Back
Top Bottom