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Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

Knowledge=power said:
So then, by your terms, a Muslim, Buddhist, Jain, Jew, or even an Atheist, could come into your church and open the sermon with a prayer from their religion?
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Actually they could. It would be up to the church and its congregation to decide whether or not they would be welcome. Not so with government meetings. Government supposedly serves all its constituents equally.

There are two answers. No prayers or everybody gets their turn. Do you really want dozens of religions to pray publically before each meeting?
 
apdst said:
It's forbidden to be even remotely crtical of politically correct groups.
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Yes, we know that conservatives are the most victimized group in history. Maybe if you practiced what you preached about getting over the victim complex....
 
jimbo said:
Actually they could. It would be up to the church and its congregation to decide whether or not they would be welcome. Not so with government meetings. Government supposedly serves all its constituents equally.

There are two answers. No prayers or everybody gets their turn. Do you really want dozens of religions to pray publically before each meeting?
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They could also start with a moment of silence to pray to whatever god anyone chooses to. For some reason, that's not good enough.
 
rocket88 said:
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They could also start with a moment of silence to pray to whatever god anyone chooses to. For some reason, that's not good enough.
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Apparently,there are some people here who not only think that is good enough,but they seem to think that the taxpayers should pay politicians for being religious in public.
 
Josie said:
As a public school teacher, if a few of us get together every morning to pray for our kids, are we endorsing a religion?
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No, but if you hold assemblies or pray during the class, it is endorsing a religion in the eyes of the students and/or their parents, and that is wrong.
 
Josie said:
As a public school teacher, if a few of us get together every morning to pray for our kids, are we endorsing a religion?
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it doesn't matter actually ... what matters is if you lead students in prayer or if new teachers feel pressured to pray with you ...

remember, a group of students at some school formed a Bible study group and wanted to meet after school in a classroom. The school said no. The ACLU fought on their behalf and they got permission. This was a club like any other and if other clubs got to use classrooms after school, then they should too ... if you want to pray with your teacher friends, with no pressure on other teachers to follow suit, go ahead .
 
Peter Grimm said:
This is where your worldview fails. There are two forces in this world, good and evil. Satanists embody evil, violence, hatred, etc.

The world would be a better place without that kind of thing.
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To you. But Satanists, for the most part, do not do things that harm others or even break laws. They are simply a religion that believes differently than you do.
 
rocket88 said:
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They could also start with a moment of silence to pray to whatever god anyone chooses to. For some reason, that's not good enough.
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That too. Even atheists like a little quiet time, especially just prior to a long, boring night.
 
Josie said:
You all know that the federal Capitol building was used as a church building back in the day, right?
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They also used to ban black people from the premises. Maybe the past isn't something we should go back to.
 
greyhat said:
I sure do! Great guy! (Not being sarcastic btw) Just not a god to some.

I would totally fight for your and anyone else's right to pray to their god(s), the issue is when it is forced on others or endorsed by gov officials.
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For a city council meeting no one is forced to attend or even pay attention to the proceedings much less what is being said so you can take that misconception and throw it out the window. Heck, even council members are not required to attend.
 
TheNextEra said:
No, I said PRAYING is endorsing a religion. Did I say you couldn't endorse religion in a building legally? No. I said you can't force children to listen to your prayers. Pay attention, you're falling behind on this one.
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Since when is praying endorsing a religion? In any scenario?

When I was in school I never once had to even say the Pledge of Allegiance nor participate in any of the school events like Valentines day or Christmas or anything else. My folks, and by default me (considering my age) were Jehova's Witness's and my folks forbid me from participating in any of those things that went against the JW religion. And I was never forced to participate by the teachers. My folks were quite aware that I would be exposed to things that went against their religion but never once complained about it. Reason was that they were responsible parents and took it upon themselves to "correct" me letting me know that despite the school having these events or saying the pledge of allegiance was "wrong". IE they had Self Responsibility. Something that many seem to lack now a days.
 
iliveonramen said:
I think a better question is...why exactly do people feel the need to pray publicly in front of others? It's weird to me.
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Why do people feel the need to do anything publicly? Could be any number of reasons. Much of it having absolutely no hidden meaning or agenda.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Since when is praying endorsing a religion? In any scenario?

When I was in school I never once had to even say the Pledge of Allegiance nor participate in any of the school events like Valentines day or Christmas or anything else. My folks, and by default me (considering my age) were Jehova's Witness's and my folks forbid me from participating in any of those things that went against the JW religion. And I was never forced to participate by the teachers. My folks were quite aware that I would be exposed to things that went against their religion but never once complained about it. Reason was that they were responsible parents and took it upon themselves to "correct" me letting me know that despite the school having these events or saying the pledge of allegiance was "wrong". IE they had Self Responsibility. Something that many seem to lack now a days.
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Why should I,as a tax payer,pay a politician to pray during a government function?
 
Verthaine said:
Apparently,there are some people here who not only think that is good enough,but they seem to think that the taxpayers should pay politicians for being religious in public.
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Psst...a little bit of reality check for you....politicians do it ALL the time. Why do you think DOMA was passed? DADT? Anti-abortion laws? Many politicians that are religious vote for or against those various laws (and speak out for or against) that come up based on thier little perceptions of what they believe the bible says about each of those.

Indeed anyone that would claim that such is not the case would have to either be as dumb as a box of rocks or so naive that they must have been living under a rock to think otherwise.
 
roguenuke said:
To you. But Satanists, for the most part, do not do things that harm others or even break laws. They are simply a religion that believes differently than you do.
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well said .. Christians should be careful about accusing others of violence, hatred, etc., given the history of Christianity ...

but tell me more about Satanists ... They believe in what and why, etc.?
 
iliveonramen said:
I think a better question is...why exactly do people feel the need to pray publicly in front of others? It's weird to me.
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People do all sorts of weird things in public.
 
Kal'Stang said:
Not my parents...as noted in a previous post.
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Some students and/or parents disagree with you. I personally wouldn't care up to the point where a teacher tried to teach my child something about religion or push her/his religion on my child. But I still looked in disdain at the Bible verse plastered on the door of the school my son will be attending next month (I figure though it is almost certainly going to be removed prior to them getting back to school and was probably from one of the church services held there on some Sundays).
 
Kal'Stang said:
Why do people feel the need to do anything publicly? Could be any number of reasons. Much of it having absolutely no hidden meaning or agenda.
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You'll have to be specific. The whole point of prayer is you talking to God. It's not a spectator sport. God doesn't listen to prayers based on how many are praying at the same time.
 
windowdressing said:
well said .. Christians should be careful about accusing others of violence, hatred, etc., given the history of Christianity ...

but tell me more about Satanists ... They believe in what and why, etc.?
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From what I understand, they believe in the baser instincts of man being what drives us and that being okay. But like many religions, there are diverse beliefs within the whole. We actually have a Satanic Bible in our home (along with a couple of Bibles, a book of Mormon, a Koran, and some other religious texts). It isn't a philosophy I personally ascribe to, but it seems to be anything from worshiping Satan (and sometimes this means some sort of odd or even cruel rituals, other times it is merely believing that he was bullied by/treated by God wrongly) to using Satan as a symbol of believing that we are our own gods.
 
Ikari said:
People do all sorts of weird things in public.
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Sure...but prayer is a personal thing. Doing it in front of people or in the public arena doesn't serve a purpose. If I went outside in front of people and started randomly...I dunno picking up dog **** and eating it I'm obviously doing it in front of people because I want an audience. It obviously have some need to be recognized and need attention.

I don't see how public prayer isn't just individuals needing some recognition like "HEY GUYS I'M RELIGIOUS!"
 
Verthaine said:
Why should I,as a tax payer,pay a politician to pray during a government function?
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Horrible arguement. Politicians are not paid an hourly rate. They are payed via a salary. Which means that if you want to claim that you are paying them to "pray" when they pray at a council meeting then you also have to admit that you are praying when they are not at any offical function but instead in their own church. You are also paying them to sleep at night. You are paying them to take a dump or piss. You are paying them eat at a restaurant with their spouses and children with no official function. And many many many other things.

So if we went by your arguement then you have a so called "right" to force that politician to not ever pray, not ever go to a personal church, not ever donate to a religious charity group etc etc.

Just because taxpayers pay a politicians salary does not give the taxpayers a right to dictate to them how to live their lives or what to say in public or at functions. Being a politician does not strip you of any Rights at any time or place.
 
iliveonramen said:
You'll have to be specific. The whole point of prayer is you talking to God. It's not a spectator sport. God doesn't listen to prayers based on how many are praying at the same time.
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Praying is not just an individual thing, it can also be communal. And God listens to ALL prayers, including ones that are given by groups.
 
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