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Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

tererun said:
You can do whatever you want, but do it on your own time. Doing it on my time is requiring me to participate. No one is preventing any of those people to take moments out of their day to pray, and they should do it on their time. This is the problem with people like you, you want everyone else to be inconvenienced because of your prayers. We do not need it, nor to be bothered wasting time watching you do it because you are bothered because we have more free time than you.
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Who is requiring you to be there?
So you have been forced or required to attend Rowan County, North Carolina county council meetings I presume?
 
Mr.Nick said:
No one is being forced to listen to a prayer because no one is being forced to be at the meeting to begin with. You're at that meeting out of your own free will - not because someone forced you.
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Utter nonsense. Any time you have an issue before the board, be it a major zoning case or a request for an additional trash pickup day, you are required to be at least represented. Those opposing also have a right to be heard. If you want to make your case, you will be there.

On the other hand, no one is telling you not to pray, just not to make the prayer official.
 
shrubnose said:
They are certainly welcome to their religion but we are not going to let them shove their wacky ideas down our throats and turn the USA into a theocracy.
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WTF do you care.... your in Europe.

Besides, a council praying together before a meeting is FAR from "turning the USA into a theocracy"
 
jimbo said:
Utter nonsense. Any time you have an issue before the board, be it a major zoning case or a request for an additional trash pickup day, you are required to be at least represented. Those opposing also have a right to be heard. If you want to make your case, you will be there.

On the other hand, no one is telling you not to pray, just not to make the prayer official.
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Well then I suppose an individual is going to have to weigh what issue is more important to them. Being in the presence of prayer or arguing their boggle with the town board.

I've never heard of an "official prayer." I don't think prayers can be "official."
 
Henrin said:
Yeah, we wouldn't want to harm your ears. After all, that is a pretty serious offense.
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:shrug: - I won't apologize for people can't keep their religions at home and church.
 
Caine said:
WTF do you care.... your in Europe.

Besides, a council praying together before a meeting is FAR from "turning the USA into a theocracy"
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I think the first sentence of our First Amendment outright bans a theocracy. "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion,"
 
Mr.Nick said:
I don't want to be exposed to homosexuality therefore I don't go to gay communities.....
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I don't want to be part in religious activity while at a government function, therefor, I'm keeping my government secular.
 
tererun said:
but when you do it as part of the meeting then everyone has to be there and take part. I want that part of my life, and I do not want to spend it sitting there waiting for you to pray. That is you and for your time. Show up early or stay late and pray. Do not put it on other people to do it because you add it to a public meeting. Yes, i have no problem with the courts kicking religion out of public meetings. They should, it is important, and it is a good thing to tell the religious to pray on their own time. State time is not god time.
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WHO IS THIS EVERYONE THAT IS REQUIRED TO BE THERE?????!?!?!?!?!?

And... Why is it "important" ?? Nobody has yet shown one example of how this harms anyone.

Another question.... do you know anything about Rowan County, North Carolina? Have you ever been there?
 
Hatuey said:
:shrug: - I won't apologize for people can't keep their religions at home and church.
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Oh shut up.....

I bet if I said "I won't apologize for people that can't keep their sexuality at home or in their bedroom" your head would explode.
 
TheNextEra said:
Not a bitch for me, if the majority don't care than they are allowed to. I may not think they "should" do it, but I'm not saying they "can't" do it unless the state or the voters say something about it. Now a private business is different. An employer has the right not to pay someone for prayer should they decide to.
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There's a majority of people in this county that oppose saying a prayer at the opening of the county meeting?
 
Hatuey said:
I don't want to be part in religious activity while at a government function, therefor, I'm keeping my government secular.
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You can fantasize about your ideal government all you want but we're talking about reality here.
 
Mr.Nick said:
Oh shut up.....

I bet if I said "I won't apologize for people that can't keep their sexuality at home or in their bedroom" your head would explode.
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Most people keep their sexuality at home. It's prudes who want to ban it even at home.
 
rocket88 said:
The Constitution does not say "separation of church and state," but it quite clearly forbids the establishment of a state religion. So while it doesn't say it in a positive, it forbids the negative.

There is also no law that states it's legal not to murder someone, but there are many that forbid the opposite of not murdering someone.
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Saying a prayer prior to a county meeting isn't establishing a state religion.
 
Mr.Nick said:
You can fantasize about your ideal government all you want but we're talking about reality here.
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Lol, our government is secular whether you like it or not. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have made it impossible to create a theocracy. Seriously, do you understand the inherent contradiction between saying the government can't give preference to one religion over another and then say the government isn't secular? Why make theocracies impossible if it's religious? Good will? Slip of the tongue?
 
tererun said:
Because the prayer is part of their free time and not a part of the job.
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I fail to see anything in the first amendment that says you can only pray on your free time. In FACT... saying people can only pray on their free time would be restricting the free exercise of religion.

Why are we paying for them to pray on our dime?
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So you live in Rowan County, North Carolina??????

Why am i being forced to sit there and watch?
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Are you a council member of Rowan County, North Carolina?
Here is the problem,
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Yes, the problem is you fail to understand anything
They can pray to god as they wish, and i do not need to be a part of it.
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No. You don't have to be a part of it. When someone is having a conversation near me, I do not HAVE to be a part of it either. Just sit there and quit eavesdropping on them.
Everyone gets what they want.
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No. YOU get what YOU want... restricting their freedoms.
You feel that for some reason people who are not religious, or people who are religious and do not practice that particular faith should be forced to be a part of christian prayer time.
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Nobody is forcing them.
Should you have to wait for muslims to get their mats out and pray to the east? Should you have to sit through a buddhist meditation? Should you have to wait for wiccans to have a ceremony to the goddess?
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Sure if that is what the local council wants to do before a meeting.

This is a load of crap because you and every other religious person knows that people have to be forced to pray.
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NOBODY IS FORCING YOU TO PRAY.... ART THOU DEAF?

That is why you want it at schools and in public meetings. You want those people to have to take a moment to give respect to your god.
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No..... I want people to have the opportunity to respect their god, if they wish.
 
Hatuey said:
Most people keep their sexuality at home. It's prudes who want to ban it even at home.
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I don't want to ban it - hell, I could care less if the announce it in the streets however, I don't go to their communities or events because I don't agree with their lifestyle.

Furthermore some gays can be pretty belligerent about their sexuality for no reason whatsoever.
 
tererun said:
This is a state job which should not involve forced prayers before work. No one is interefering with someone's liberty to pray, they are just saying you do not have the power to force it on others. You are as libertarian as any fascist, and you are also lying.
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Showing yet again that you fail to understand anything.

This is not a State Job.
 
apdst said:
Saying a prayer prior to a county meeting isn't establishing a state religion.
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School prayer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

In two landmark decisions, Engel v. Vitale (1962) and Abington School District v. Schempp (1963), the US Supreme Court established what is now the current prohibition on state-sponsored prayer in schools. While the Engel decision held that the promulgation of an official state-school prayer stood in violation of the First Amendment’s Establishment Clause (thus overruling the New York Courts’ decisions), Abington held that Bible readings and other (state) school-sponsored religious activities were prohibited.[5] Following these two cases came the Court's decision in Lemon v. Kurtzman (1971), a ruling that established the Lemon test for religious activities within schools. The Lemon test states that in order to be constitutional under the Establishment Clause of the First Amendment any practice sponsored within state run schools (or other public, state sponsored activities) must adhere to the following three criteria:[6]

....

While the Establishment Clause proscribes the state-sponsorship of religion, the Free Exercise Clause forbids state interference in individual religious exercise. Where a state entity moves to accommodate the right to individual religious expression under the latter clause, opponents of that "expression" may cite such accommodation as state "promotion" of one religious activity over another.[9]
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Darn SCOTUS!
 
TheNextEra said:
There are limits as well to the first amendment. I don't think this should be a federal court case, but I do believe this should be a state case (if the state wants to pursue it) in which the state gets to decide if they should PAY people to pray on state time.

This is being done as "official" state business, so if the state wants to pay people to pray on their dime, that is their choice. However, it is the state's choice on the matter and shouldn't be a federal issue IMO.
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The state isn't paying anyone here.......
 
Mr.Nick said:
I don't want to ban it - hell, I could care less if the announce it in the streets however, I don't go to their communities or events because I don't agree with their lifestyle.

Furthermore some gays can be pretty belligerent about their sexuality for no reason whatsoever.
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So then you made a strawman argument. Nobody is going to a county meeting and watching men make out or lesbians eating each other out. Nobody is having you watch gay demonstrations of sexuality at county meetings or otherwise. So why even bring it up? Oh, you have nothing else to argue.
 
Hatuey said:
If you're not doing it in an official school function, no. You're not. If you're doing it an official function, yes, you are. You don't get paid to preach. You get paid to teach.
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That logic is ****ing retarded.


You also don't get paid to take a ****. No bowel movements allowed at work!
 
Hatuey said:
Lol, our government is secular whether you like it or not. If it wasn't, it wouldn't have made it impossible to create a theocracy. Seriously, do you understand the inherent contradiction between saying the government can't give preference to one religion over another and then say the government isn't secular? Why make theocracies impossible if it's religious? Good will? Slip of the tongue?
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Yes our government is secular, that doesn't mean individuals with civil liberties are forced to be secular - even if they are part of government...

Using your flawed logic and ignorance of civil liberties only an atheist is legally qualified to run and obtain pubic office.

The First Amendment bans religion from becoming LAW - the First Amendment also protects an individuals right to religious freedom.

It's really not that hard to understand.
 
Caine said:
That logic is ****ing retarded.

You also don't get paid to take a ****. No bowel movements allowed at work!
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Actually, I'm practically my own boss. So, I get paid to do whatever I really want. Which is why I don't drive around harassing kids for smoking weed.
 
Hatuey said:
So then you made a strawman argument. Nobody is going to a county meeting and watching men make out or lesbians eating each other out. Nobody is having you watch gay demonstrations of sexuality at county meetings or otherwise. So why even bring it up? Oh, you have nothing else to argue.
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No one is making you say a prayer and no one is forcing you to be at a meeting - you're only there of your own free will....

Get it?
 
Henry David said:
This is a big deal because it is very rare in this country when a court comes down on the side of the US Constitution.

Mostly, courts just rule in favor of the government.

As a supporter of Americans United for Separation of Church and State, I'm very happy with this ruling.
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The court didn't come down on the side of the U.S. Constitution.

In allowing the council to pray openly, what law is being made respecting the establishment of religion?

If anything it is prohibiting the free exercise thereof.
 
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