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Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

No one is praying to her though...

Yeah, they are, when they address their prayers to her. Many people ask Mary to plead their case before the Father, and they do it by addressing their prayers to her injust such a manner as I have indicated. Here is another example:


Holy Mary, mother fair,
Filled with love for God,
Pray for us in all our needs.
Pray for us today.
 
IMO, religion and government should be kept as far apart as possible.....Religion has been creeping into government for quite some time now...Congress, especially the House, seems to think that it is fine to create bills based on their religious beliefs... Prayer in government encourages this practice....
 
By the way - anyone who wants to pray before the meeting is welcome to -they can pray silently to themselves at any point before the meeting starts; or they can go off premise and pray as a group on the sidewalk.

I don't think you understand the concept of being able to practice your religion the way you want. Saying that you can only make a prayer silently to yourself or off the premises isn't exactly freedom of religion.
 
I don't think you understand the concept of being able to practice your religion the way you want. Saying that you can only make a prayer silently to yourself or off the premises isn't exactly freedom of religion.

So, if I don't believe in praying for guidance, but only for gods will to be done, can I hold up the meeting to offer my own prayer acceptable to me? Does everyone get to do this?
 
Yeah, they are, when they address their prayers to her. Many people ask Mary to plead their case before the Father, and they do it by addressing their prayers to her injust such a manner as I have indicated. Here is another example:


Holy Mary, mother fair,
Filled with love for God,
Pray for us in all our needs.
Pray for us today.

I am sorry but you are mistaken. If I asked you to pray for me would I be praying to you? No. It's a Communion of Saints thing...
 
Good- this isn't a theocracy- keep your religion to yourself!




They are certainly welcome to their religion but we are not going to let them shove their wacky ideas down our throats and turn the USA into a theocracy.




"Man has created God in his own image: Intolerant, sexist, homophobic and violent." ~ Marie
 
I am sorry but you are mistaken. If I asked you to pray for me would I be praying to you? No. It's a Communion of Saints thing...

Many reject what you say and consider this to be praying to Mary.
 
I am sorry but you are mistaken. If I asked you to pray for me would I be praying to you? No. It's a Communion of Saints thing...




If I ever pray for you, You probably won't like what I pray for.
 
Many reject what you say and consider this to be praying to Mary.

I am aware of this, which is why I took the time to correct the error.
 
I am aware of this, which is why I took the time to correct the error.

Your opinion about whether it is an error or not is irrelevant because it misses the point. Each sect prays differently, and some sects pray in ways that are unacceptable to other sects. No matter how the prayer is constructed, it will be unbiblical to some sects.

The fact that you want to argue (oh, I am sorry, "correct" me) about the nature of such prayers is evidence in and of itself that there is a problem here.
 
Your opinion about whether it is an error or not is irrelevant because it misses the point. Each sect prays differently, and some sects pray in ways that are unacceptable to other sects. No matter how the prayer is constructed, it will be unbiblical to some sects.

The fact that you want to argue (oh, I am sorry, "correct" me) about the nature of such prayers is evidence in and of itself that there is a problem here.

I'm sorry this isn't my opinion it is the position and teaching of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, you know the sect who uses the Hail Mary almost in the exclusive. Considering that it is made up of biblical verses I don't see how they(those other "sects") would be able to say it is "unbiblical".

Is there a problem with me clarifying a misconception? If there is it is yours, not mine.
 
I'm sorry this isn't my opinion it is the position and teaching of the Magisterium of the Catholic Church, you know the sect who uses the Hail Mary almost in the exclusive. Considering that it is made up of biblical verses I don't see how they(those other "sects") would be able to say it is "unbiblical".

Is there a problem with me clarifying a misconception? If there is it is yours, not mine.

They don't agree with you about the meaning of those verses. The fact that we are talking theology is the evidence of the problem, and the fact that you think you are "clearing things up" is all the evidence I need to make my point. It doesn't matter who is right about those verses and who is wrong, or who is right about the nature of addressing Mary and who s wrong. Under the laws of the US, we should not end up with the government having to involve itself in choosing in any manner whatsoever which single group's (or set of groups) theology it will accommodate.

The fact that it was so incredibly easy to turn this discussion into a theological one is proof of the land mines that exist with tearing away at the wall of separation. So many claim that separation is not possible. Those same people had better hope they are wrong, because once all vestiges of the wall are gone we will see the real battles begin, and all of those battles will be theological.
 
They don't agree with you about the meaning of those verses. The fact that we are talking theology is the evidence of the problem, and the fact that you think you are "clearing things up" is all the evidence I need to make my point. It doesn't matter who is right about those verses and who is wrong, or who is right about the nature of addressing Mary and who s wrong. Under the laws of the US, we should not end up with the government having to involve itself in choosing in any manner whatsoever which single group's (or set of groups) theology it will accommodate.

The fact that it was so incredibly easy to turn this discussion into a theological one is proof of the land mines that exist with tearing away at the wall of separation. So many claim that separation is not possible. Those same people had better hope they are wrong, because once all vestiges of the wall are gone we will see the real battles begin, and all of those battles will be theological.


If they're not Catholic, I don't care what they agree to. And even then, personally, don't care, care about the right position of what the Magisterium says it is, because, well, that's what it is.

I think people have this misconception about the 1st Amendment and Sep of C&S. For one, no single group is asking for accommodation by the government, the government is at all levels made up by the people. The people whose right it is to not have the government, that is, other people prohibit them from the free exercise of religion. Don't you see the very thing you are trying repress under on the grounds of the 1st Amendment is the very thing, for this very reason why it is protected under the 1st Amendment.
 
What exactly about this is forcing you to take part?

When you do it in a public meeting where everyone has to participate then you have to take part. It is not that the meeting is going on while the religious people go off and pray, everyone has to take part even if they are not going to pray. If you want to go off and pray and take all the other religious people to go pray that is perfectly fine. The meeting has nothing to do with prayer and it should not include prayer as part of it's minutes. They have a job to do and it is not about praying. They should do it on their time and not on our dime. I would be perfectly fine if all the religious people showed up 15 minutes early on their time to have a religious prayer before the meeting. They should do that, but not as a part of the meeting where everyone is part of it whether they want to be or not.
Why should anyone care if you are inconvenienced by someone practicing their freedom?

It is not their job. You are there to do something, and it is not to pray. If you want to pray at work then you should be a priest or get a job for the church. If you want to pray on your breaks, go right ahead. No one is stopping them from practicing their right to pray. That is an outlandish lie by you, and shame on you for thinking I would fall for that load of BS. No one is being prevented from freely practicing their religion on their time.
Is that supposed to be a good reason to restrict their freedom?

Work is not a time where we have declared you are free to act in any way you want to. You are representing something, and if you do not want to do that job you every right in the world to quit. If you have to pray and your job is in the way you can quit. This is not a gulag where you have to work. Also, no one is preventing them from praying right before the meeting. They can pray before they come in if it is important to them. They just cannot pray when they are doing work. Hell, even then they could ignore the proceedings and pray to themselves if they so desired. So you are lieing about things and you need to stop pretending these people have been banned from practicing their religion, which is not true in the slightest. They have every liberty to pray every moment of the day if they chose to. However, if they chose to be employed they have chosen to do a job which does not involve prayer. I have seen nothing that says for the rest of their free time they cannot pray until their hands are worn and bloody.
 
When you do it in a public meeting where everyone has to participate then you have to take part. It is not that the meeting is going on while the religious people go off and pray, everyone has to take part even if they are not going to pray.

If you are not forced to take part in the religious happenings taking place than you are just at the same location where they are occurring. Therefore, you are not forced into anything religious against your will and your argument is seemingly invalid.
 
Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings

IMO, religion and government should be kept as far apart as possible.....Religion has been creeping into government for quite some time now...Congress, especially the House, seems to think that it is fine to create bills based on their religious beliefs... Prayer in government encourages this practice....

And they dare wonder why they loose the moderates at election time.
 
If you are not forced to take part in the religious happenings taking place than you are just at the same location where they are occurring. Therefore, you are not forced into anything religious against your will and your argument is seemingly invalid.

but when you do it as part of the meeting then everyone has to be there and take part. I want that part of my life, and I do not want to spend it sitting there waiting for you to pray. That is you and for your time. Show up early or stay late and pray. Do not put it on other people to do it because you add it to a public meeting. Yes, i have no problem with the courts kicking religion out of public meetings. They should, it is important, and it is a good thing to tell the religious to pray on their own time. State time is not god time.
 
Read more @: Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings | The Raw Story

A big win for civil liberties. All members should be treated equally and government bodies should not open sessions with a prayer. This is a win for a cornerstone on the Separation of Church and State.

No it's a big loss for civil liberties.

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof ; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

If praying before a council meeting is NOT LAW then members can pray if they want to. Prohibiting them from praying would violate the First Amendment....

Is - "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion" too difficult to understand?
 
but when you do it as part of the meeting then everyone has to be there and take part. I want that part of my life, and I do not want to spend it sitting there waiting for you to pray. That is you and for your time. Show up early or stay late and pray. Do not put it on other people to do it because you add it to a public meeting. Yes, i have no problem with the courts kicking religion out of public meetings. They should, it is important, and it is a good thing to tell the religious to pray on their own time. State time is not god time.

waaaahhhh! I already know all to well you don't want to sit at the same location as someone praying before everyone gets to work. Why should they have to show up early just so you don't have to be in the same room as someone praying? Get over it.

Oh the humanity of having to deal with other people having a prayer. What has the world come to where people pray?
 
IMO, religion and government should be kept as far apart as possible.....Religion has been creeping into government for quite some time now...Congress, especially the House, seems to think that it is fine to create bills based on their religious beliefs... Prayer in government encourages this practice....

You may as well say one must be an atheist to hold a government position....

The First Amendment states that government cannot force individuals by law to adhere to any specific religion, it also states that government cannot impede an individual by law from practicing religion..

The government is not an individual and an individual is not the government - two different ideas. The government is a collection of individuals whom naturally are entitled to civil liberties, one of them being the First Amendment, hence are free to pray anytime they want. Preventing them from doing such would be a violation of those individuals civil rights.
 
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but when you do it as part of the meeting then everyone has to be there and take part. I want that part of my life, and I do not want to spend it sitting there waiting for you to pray. That is you and for your time. Show up early or stay late and pray. Do not put it on other people to do it because you add it to a public meeting. Yes, i have no problem with the courts kicking religion out of public meetings. They should, it is important, and it is a good thing to tell the religious to pray on their own time. State time is not god time.

You don't have to pray..... You're more than welcome to sit there with your fingers up your butt.

Praying is a civil liberty protected by the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights. If you don't like it then get a job where people don't pray before work.
 
waaaahhhh! I already know all to well you don't want to sit at the same location as someone praying before everyone gets to work. Why should they have to show up early just so you don't have to be in the same room as someone praying? Get over it.

Because the prayer is part of their free time and not a part of the job. Why are we paying for them to pray on our dime? Why am i being forced to sit there and watch? Here is the problem, if they do it on their time and show up early no one is inconvenienced for something they do not want to be a part of. They can pray to god as they wish, and i do not need to be a part of it. Everyone gets what they want. You feel that for some reason people who are not religious, or people who are religious and do not practice that particular faith should be forced to be a part of christian prayer time. Should you have to wait for muslims to get their mats out and pray to the east? Should you have to sit through a buddhist meditation? Should you have to wait for wiccans to have a ceremony to the goddess?

This is a load of crap because you and every other religious person knows that people have to be forced to pray. That is why you want it at schools and in public meetings. You want those people to have to take a moment to give respect to your god.
Oh the humanity of having to deal with other people having a prayer. What has the world come to where people pray?

Feel free to do it on your own time and I will deal with it. Do not include me in your BS. You are lying and making stuff up that people do not want to deal with you praying. They simply do not want to pray with you, and perhaps you should figure that out because supposedly the christian god doesn't like it when you lie.
 
You don't have to pray..... You're more than welcome to sit there with your fingers up your butt.

Praying is a civil liberty protected by the First Amendment of the Bill of Rights. If you don't like it then get a job where people don't pray before work.

This is a state job which should not involve forced prayers before work. No one is interefering with someone's liberty to pray, they are just saying you do not have the power to force it on others. You are as libertarian as any fascist, and you are also lying.
 
This is a state job which should not involve forced prayers before work. No one is interefering with someone's liberty to pray, they are just saying you do not have the power to force it on others. You are as libertarian as any fascist, and you are also lying.

You don't have to pray and sitting around while others pray is NOT forcing you to pray...

You may as well claim that someone forced you to eat a sandwich because someone else pulled out a sandwich and began to eat it.

If someone is getting their ass beat in front of you are you forced to join in??

If someone is drinking in front of you are you forced to drink?

If someone is smoking in front of you are you forced to smoke?

If someone is watching Fox News in front of you are you forced to agree with Fox News..

Are you really this helpless???

Of course I'm a libertarian - I understand that I don't have to partake in an activity that I don't agree with if I don't want to however, respect those that do.
 
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