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Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings [W:656]

davidtaylorjr said:
Engle V. Vitale was an overstep of the court, just like this is.
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Picture Islamic prayers at the start of every session of Congress. I bet you can't convince yourself you'd be ok with it.
 
Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings

Deuce said:
Picture Islamic prayers at the start of every session of Congress. I bet you can't convince yourself you'd be ok with it.
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You don't even have to use congress; imagine this in Dearborn, MI; a city with a fairly large population of Arab-Americans. Imagine the city council beginning with a prayer to Allah or Muhammad. People would go ape shyt; talks of Sharia Law and Islamists would go up ASAP!!
 
greyhat said:
You don't even have to use congress; imagine this in Dearborn, MI; a city with a fairly large population of Arab-Americans. Imagine the city council beginning with a prayer to Allah or Muhammad. People would go ape shyt; talks of Sharia Law and Islamists would go up ASAP!!
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Some of these people don't think Mosques should be allowed to be built in this country, but they have no problem with Christian prayers in government operations. Like the 1st amendment had a ****ing asterix in it.
 
greyhat said:
Yes it is; those two minutes make a world of difference. I would also add this prayer should be done outside of the governments' premises.
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And what harm is being done here exactly?
 
Deuce said:
Some of these people don't think Mosques should be allowed to be built in this country, but they have no problem with Christian prayers in government operations. Like the 1st amendment had a ****ing asterix in it.
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Where has anyone who has posted in this thread stated that mosques should not be built in this country?

Talk about a ****ing Skrawman.....
 
Deuce said:
Picture Islamic prayers at the start of every session of Congress. I bet you can't convince yourself you'd be ok with it.
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If the members of Congress were okay with it..... I give two ****s less.
 
So, if you approve of prayers at the beginning of a political bodies meeting, what do you think of the following? It happened in 2007

Hindu prayer in Senate draws religious protesters

- Three protesters disrupted a prayer by a Hindu chaplain on Thursday at the opening of a U.S. Senate hearing, calling it an abomination and shouting slogans about Jesus Christ.

It was the first time the daily prayer that opens Senate proceedings was said by a Hindu chaplain.

Capitol police said two women and one man were arrested and charged with causing a disruption in the public gallery of the Senate. The three started shouting when guest Chaplain Rajan Zed, a Hindu from Nevada, began his prayer.
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TheDemSocialist said:
Separation of church and state, not endorsing a religion.
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Which isn't in the constitution. Its a liberal judges interpretation of the 1st Amendment and Establishment Clause. I see no issue with someone praying prior to any meeting including using the name Jesus. What he should have done, however, is require that the prayer start 5 minutes (arbitrary time, just for the sake of debate) prior to the official meeting beginning. This provides no "captive audience" arguement andthe prayer is not done in any offical capacity. Its simply a citizen calling other citizens of like faith together for a prayer in a taxpayer funded building. Of course, if he did this, we would have had panty waists saying "I felt like if I wasn't there that I was late. I felt like I had to go."
 
A bit more on the "church services in the Capitol", a subject used by David Barton to promote his fantasy about the Christian Nation, as described by Margaret Bayard Smith

The First Forty Years of Washington Society:


"...I have called these Sunday assemblies in the capitol, a congregation, but the almost exclusive appropriation of that word to religious assemblies, prevents its being a descriptive term as applied in the present case, since the gay company who thronged the H. R. looked very little like a religious assembly. The occasion presented for display was not only a novel, but a favourable one for the youth, beauty and fashion of the city, Georgetown and environs. The members of Congress, gladly gave up their seats for such fair auditors, and either lounged in the lobbies, or round the fire places, or stood beside the ladies of their acquaintance. This sabbathday-resort became so fashionable, that the floor of the house offered insufficient space, the platform behind the Speaker's chair, and every spot where a chair could be wedged in was crowded with ladies in their gayest costume and their attendant beaux and who led them to their seats with the same gallantry as is exhibited in a ball room. Smiles, nods, whispers, nay sometimes tittering marked their recognition of each other, and beguiled the tedium of the service. Often, when cold, a lady would leave her seat and led by her attending beau would make her way through the crowd to one of the fire-places where she could laugh and talk at her ease. One of the officers of the house, followed by his attendant with a great bag over his shoulder, precisely at 12 o'clock, would make his way through the hall to the depository of letters to put them in the mail-bag, which sometimes had a most ludicrous effect, and always diverted attention from the preacher. The musick was as little in union with devotional feelings, as the place. The marine-band, were the performers. Their scarlet uniform, their various instruments, made quite a dazzling appearance in the gallery. The marches they played were good and inspiring, but in their attempts to accompany the psalm-singing of the congregation, they completely failed and after a while, the practice was discontinued, -- it was too ridiculous."
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MarineTpartier said:
Which isn't in the constitution. Its a liberal judges interpretation of the 1st Amendment and Establishment Clause.
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A fail to see how "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof" is not calling for a separation of church and state? And oh yea those dirty liberals are up to it again:lamo I mean i guess many conservative judges must be "lbierals" too and that dirty lib Jefferson: I contemplate with sovereign reverence that act of the whole American people which declared that their "legislature" should "make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof," thus building a wall of separation between church and State."
 
Peter Grimm said:
How is the government stepping in and telling people what they cannot do a win for any kind of liberties?

Mind blown.

This country is going to hell.
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How is a legislator opening up a session and on the record praying to a sect be considered liberty?
 
How is silencing religious speech at government meetings a win for civil liberties so long as anyone is allowed to do so?

The courts are becoming far too sensitive and many becoming far too butthurt over anything remotely religious.
 
Caine said:
Praying in someone else's presence is NOT a revocation of their civil liberties.
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Praying as official legislative business is... That is state authority endorsing a religion.
 
well, I'm one of those whom doesn't believe an opening prayer comes close to breaching the separation between church an state... and I'm having a tough time envisioning what evil would befall us if opening prayers were "allowed".

can anyone delineate the harm/evil this opening prayer has caused?.. be as specific as you can.
 
Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings

Thrilla said:
well, I'm one of those whom doesn't believe an opening prayer comes close to breaching the separation between church an state... and I'm having a tough time envisioning what evil would befall us if opening prayers were "allowed".

can anyone delineate the harm/evil this opening prayer has caused?.. be as specific as you can.
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It's not about any evil or harm- it's about a constitutionally established separation and the maintenance of it. It's a matter of principle.
 
Federal court halts Christian prayers at North Carolina county meetings

digsbe said:
How is silencing religious speech at government meetings a win for civil liberties so long as anyone is allowed to do so?

The courts are becoming far too sensitive and many becoming far too butthurt over anything remotely religious.
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Can't blame them.. Religion kills.

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Thrilla said:
well, I'm one of those whom doesn't believe an opening prayer comes close to breaching the separation between church an state... and I'm having a tough time envisioning what evil would befall us if opening prayers were "allowed".

can anyone delineate the harm/evil this opening prayer has caused?.. be as specific as you can.
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This a well known tactic of monotheists : Rationalizing why the insertion of their religious proclivities into all facet sof life is nonthreatening or "just makes sense"..............When in reality it is always threatening because none of their religious proclivities make any sense...........................
 
Thrilla said:
well, I'm one of those whom doesn't believe an opening prayer comes close to breaching the separation between church an state... and I'm having a tough time envisioning what evil would befall us if opening prayers were "allowed".

can anyone delineate the harm/evil this opening prayer has caused?.. be as specific as you can.
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You see, they really object when I sacrifice a goat which is of course the opening sequence of my prayer.... I don't know WHY people complain, why is it a big deal? it's just my prayer
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Praying as official legislative business is... That is state authority endorsing a religion.
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well, SCOTUS disagrees with you.. and has ruled as much.


the Supreme court has already ruled on such a case.... they found that paying a chaplain to give the opening prayers violated the Constitution... but found that opening prayers did not.
Marsh V Chambers is the case..

i'd be willing to take a look at what substantive information you have to back up your opinion, though..... got any?
 
Bonzai said:
This a well known tactic of monotheists : Rationalizing why the insertion of their religious proclivities into all facet sof life is nonthreatening or "just makes sense"..............When in reality it is always threatening because none of their religious proclivities make any sense...........................
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thanks for the odd opinion that doesn't address anything....
 
paddymcdougall said:
You see, they really object when I sacrifice a goat which is of course the opening sequence of my prayer.... I don't know WHY people complain, why is it a big deal? it's just my prayer
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is that really how you appeal for good tidings?.. by killing an animal?...such a violent religion you have there.

interesting... .what sort of ritual do you when you appeal for bad tidings?... wholesale slaughter of a herd?... knifing babies?

:lol:
 
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