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Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

Guy Incognito said:
If I were one of these guys defending Snowden, I'd just be embarrassed at this point.
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They would and should, but won't because they'll remain biased even in the face of logic.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

I think that all this "Fear" about whistleblowers is because the futurists recognize the problems of secrecy as Martial Law is implemented as a result of economic collapse.

I would think that at least 30 percent of the civil servants within Federal, State and Local governments would not be too pleased with Martial Law and they would want to leak information as to deployments and other actions and plans against the civilian population.

This "Insider Threat" must be dealt with prior to Martial Law being implemented.

Calm

Archive Reference: On Topic
U.S. Martial Law : Civil Unrest : Occupy Wall Street Movement : The War At Home
Articles and Commentaries by various writers and media pundits.
2000 - October 13, 2005
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...w-OccupyMovement-01-2000--October13-2005.html
October 14, 2005 ---January 31, 2007
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...vement-02-October14-2005--January31-2007.html
January 26, 2007 --- June 03, 2008
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...yMovement-03-January26-2007--June03-2008.html
June 03, 2008 --- March 04, 2009
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...upyMovement-04-June03-2008--March04-2009.html
March 16, 2009 --- January 29, 2010
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...Movement-05-March16-2009--January29-2010.html
January 29, 2009 --- December 20, 2010
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...ement-06-January29-2009--December20-2010.html
January 10, 2011 --- May 15, 2011
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...pyMovement-07-January10-2011--May15-2011.html
October 09, 2011 --- October 30, 2011
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...yMovement-October09-2011--October30-2011.html
November 23, 2011 --- February 06, 2012
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...ment-09-November23-2011--February06-2012.html
February 06, 2012 --- August 08, 2012
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...vement-10-February06-2012--August08-2012.html
September 07, 2012 --- April 19, 2013
http://www.dotandcalm.com/calm-arch...ent-11-September07-2012--December10-2012.html
 
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Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Guy Incognito said:
I am not twisting your words at all.
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Yes, you were. You claimed that I made whistleblowing of govt spying the equivalent of whistleblowing on genocide. You stated you cannot think of a single extreme reason for oathbreaking. I gave you one.


If certain extreme circumstances like genocide can justify oath-breaking that is no excuse whatsoever for Snowden, who betrayed his oath over an attenuated bit of constitutional minutiae.
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The freedoms of Americans > than one man's oath.

Even granting that these searches were unconstitutional (I do not) the mere fact that a law is unconstitutional does not carry the same moral weight as a genocide.
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Never said they were the same moral weight.


What is going on here? The government is seizing some of Verizon's property for a search. If Verizon doesn't like it then they have standing I go to court and fight it, yet they never did. No individual rights are violates any more than when Verizon eels that same data to advertisers. This is absolutely nothing, even if there were no warrants. And, oh yeah, there WERE warrants; so this js REALLY nothing. But even if there were no warrants this is still nothing to get worked up obver. Comparing it to the holocaust is a disservice to real moral tragedies.
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Warrants mean almost nothing thanks to the Patriot Act. But besides that, warrants aren't the issue as the govt collected information on billions of calls. Did they issue warrants for billions of calls? And if this is simply an issue of Verizon handing of its own property then why should a warrant be required in the first place?
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Guy Incognito said:
Defecting to Venezuela after leaking clAssified national security secrets while claiming to care about the interests of the USA can be characterized as nothing other than an act of cowardice.
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Dude, please keep up with the news. At this time he has not defected to Venezuela. I pointed this out to you a few days ago but you continue to push false information.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Guy Incognito said:
That's a great point. He's defecting to Venezuela to protest US infringements of liberty.
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Please stop pushing false information.

Apparently the US is so unfree he has to leak classified information in protest and then flee, but somehow he's just fine with the level of freedom Venezuela. That's the definition of a hypocrite.
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He is seeking asylum, not seeking a 'freer' nation than the US.

If I were one of these guys defending Snowden, I'd just be embarrassed at this point.
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I am embarrassed for you espousing false information.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Slyfox696 said:
"Doing something right"...Snowden didn't do something indisputably "right", he did something indisputably illegal.
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I am not arguing that what he did wasn't illegal.


Some people feel he should be celebrated as a hero and others think he should be considered a traitor who put American lives in danger. So who gets to make that determination of what's right and what's not?
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Everyone makes their own determinations. Duh. I have determined that what Snowden did was right, despite being illegal and therefore I support him. How many people do we celebrate throughout history who did things illegally?

Are your morals flexible enough to bend in all directions, depending upon whether or not you agree with the act?
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My morals are pretty strong. Not flexible at all.

First of all, Edward Snowden very clearly knew he did something which was, at least on some levels, wrong.
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You can argue the "right" far outshone the "wrong", and I wouldn't necessarily disagree with you on that, but there was still a level of wrongness in his actions.
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He knew it was illegal. I would not say he believed it was "wrong" otherwise he would not have given up his six figure job. You seem to have difficulty separating the definitions of right/wrong vs legal/illegal.

Second of all, if we're just going to arbitrarily assign cowardice based upon whether we agree with the action, then if we take the example of a person who murders a child because he/she claims the child was possessed, then that person does not feel they did wrong and thus, using your theory, could not be considered a coward when they fled.
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Whether someone is a 'coward' is indeed a matter of opinion. Would you call someone a coward for fleeing genocide committed by the government?

Finally, the problem I have with your argument is if each person gets to decide for themselves whether the fleeing action was cowardly, then why are you essentially arguing with me that Snowden is a coward?
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So if someone has an opinion then that means everyone else has that same opinion? Love your logic.

At the end of the day, if a person truly believes they are doing the right thing, then they shouldn't run from the thing they did. It's hard for me to believe you're a man standing on principles when you break the law, if you are running from facing the consequences of said principle. I MIGHT give some credence to the argument of running so one can continue the fight, but Snowden's fleeing does not continue his fight, if anything, it diminishes it (as I explained earlier in the thread).
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If I believe that a man's actions were just, and he runs away to avoid an unfair trial then no I do not believe he/she is a coward.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Geoist said:
Please stop pushing false information.



He is seeking asylum, not seeking a 'freer' nation than the US.



I am embarrassed for you espousing false information.
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Bull****. A request for asylum to Venezuela to escape US justice is the same as defecting.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

greyhat said:
They would and should, but won't because they'll remain biased even in the face of logic.
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Ah, so you're another one who thinks Einstein should have stayed and faced Nazi justice in Germany?
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Guy Incognito said:
Bull****. A request for asylum to Venezuela to escape US justice is the same as defecting.
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He hasn't defected. I agree he should be cuaght and prosecuted, but he hasn't defected by the very definition of it.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

Geoist said:
Ah, so you're another one who thinks Einstein should have stayed and faced Nazi justice in Germany?
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Nobody thinks that. Einstein was a victim fleeing to a free country to escape illegitimate persecution for his religion. Snowden is a criminal fleeing to an unfree country to escape legitimate prosecution for his crime of leaking classified information.

Big difference, for anybody intellectually honest enough to see it.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

TheNextEra said:
He hasn't defected. I agree he should be cuaght and prosecuted, but he hasn't defected by the very definition of it.
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Yes he has, by the mere act of seeking Asylum with Venezuela to escape US justice he is a defector.
 
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Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Geoist said:
To defect TO a country one must take up residence in that country.

de·fect
1. To disown allegiance to one's country and take up residence in another
defection - definition of defection by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.
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How dishonest can you get! Did you see the second sense of the word, just beneAth the one you selective quotes? Are you incompetent or lying?
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

Guy Incognito said:
Nobody thinks that.
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Really? Read the following:
Slyfox696 said:
Did he knowingly choose to break laws and then run away? Then yes.
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Post #290 for context (bottom of page 29).



Snowden is a criminal fleeing to an unfree country to escape legitimate prosecution for his crime of leaking classified information.
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I don't believe the prosecution is legitimate as I think the program was unconstitutional. Snowden is a whistleblower and should be protected as such.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Guy Incognito said:
How dishonest can you get! Did you see the second sense of the word, just beneAth the one you selective quotes? Are you incompetent or lying?
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Crow calling the raven black?

You clearly stated that Snowden defected TO Venezuela. You are obviously wrong.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:

Guy Incognito said:
That's a great point. He's defecting to Venezuela to protest US infringements of liberty.
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To claim that he has defected to Venezuela is about as accurate as saying he has defected to Mars.
 
Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

Geoist said:
Ah, so you're another one who thinks Einstein should have stayed and faced Nazi justice in Germany?
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I don't recall ever saying that; for someone who's busting balls around here for putting out false info, you seem to be forgetting yourself when ditching out advice...

I think that regardless of the evidence and common sense, those who view Snowden as a hero will never budge on how they see him. Their bias towards the government or rules etc will hinder logic
 
Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

Geoist said:
Really? Read the following:
Post #290 for context (bottom of page 29).





I don't believe the prosecution is legitimate as I think the program was unconstitutional. Snowden is a whistleblower and should be protected as such.
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What whistleblower protocol did he follow? The answer: NONE therefore you can't claim those protections under the law. What YOU think, well that's up to you...
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

greyhat said:
I think that regardless of the evidence and common sense, those who view Snowden as a hero will never budge on how they see him. Their bias towards the government or rules etc will hinder logic
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Funny.

Change 'hero' to 'traitor' AND add 'blindly following' in between 'towards' and 'the'...and that is exactly how I think about people like you.


Have a nice day.
 
Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

DA60 said:
Funny.

Change 'hero' to 'traitor' AND add 'blindly following' in between 'towards' and 'the'...and that is exactly how I think about people like you.


Have a nice day.
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I wouldn't even waste a brain cell to belittle you. You seem to have a good grip on showcasing yourself as well..you.

Snowden was, is, and will continue to be a coward for not standing on his principles and staying to fight. He ran like a coward and will die like one.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

greyhat said:
I wouldn't even waste a brain cell to belittle you. You seem to have a good grip on showcasing yourself as well..you.

Snowden was, is, and will continue to be a coward for not standing on his principles and staying to fight. He ran like a coward and will die like one.
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There was no "fight", there was being hushed up and thrown in solitary confinement for a few years to be subjected to psychological torture without a trial just like Manning.
 
Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

Khayembii Communique said:
There was no "fight", there was being hushed up and thrown in solitary confinement for a few years to be subjected to psychological torture without a trial just like Manning.
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Com'on r u serious? Manning has been held under military rules for he is a soldier. Snowden is no whistleblower for he failed to follow protocol; he broke his oath of secrecy, non-disclosure agreements and violated federal laws-afterwards he did not stand and fight the charges but rather fled the country with stolen government documents. Now he is asking for asylum to run from his actions- that's cowardly!
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

greyhat said:
I don't recall ever saying that; for someone who's busting balls around here for putting out false info, you seem to be forgetting yourself when ditching out advice...
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It was a question. As I pointed out, some seem to think that.

I think that regardless of the evidence and common sense, those who view Snowden as a hero will never budge on how they see him.
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Well if it turns out the man is a child molester my view of him certainly will change. On this issue, though, I'm pretty set.

Their bias towards the government or rules etc will hinder logic
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While I am a big critic of most government policies I do recognize a need for national security, taxes, and certain programs. I just believe we are headed down a dark road when it comes to our 'anti-terrorism' policies, especially at home.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

greyhat said:
What whistleblower protocol did he follow? The answer: NONE therefore you can't claim those protections under the law. What YOU think, well that's up to you...
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There is no whistleblower protocol for people in his position. We already debunked that myth a few pages back.
 
Re: Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[

Geoist said:
There is no whistleblower protocol for people in his position. We already debunked that myth a few pages back.
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Snowden, by definition, IS a whistleblower.

'whis·tle·blow·er or whis·tle-blow·er or whistle blower (hwsl-blr, ws-)
n.
One who reveals wrongdoing within an organization to the public or to those in positions of authority:'

whistleblower - definition of whistleblower by the Free Online Dictionary, Thesaurus and Encyclopedia.


He's also a hero and thank goodness he did what he did.
 
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