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Edward Snowden Asylum To Be Offered By Venezuela,President Nicolás Maduro Says[W:271]

yes indeed. Multiple attacks have been stopped using FISA data.

Do you have link(s) to unbiased, factual (not hearsay) proof that un-Constitutionally obtained data/information directly stopped 'multiple attacks'?

Yes or no, please?
 
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I'll take that as a 'no' to my question.

Noted.


Have a nice day.


Have a nice

for what it is worth here is a opinion from Daniel Ellsberg, who famously released the pentagon papers.

Yet when I surrendered to arrest in Boston, having given out my last copies of the papers the night before, I was released on personal recognizance bond the same day. Later, when my charges were increased from the original three counts to 12, carrying a possible 115-year sentence, my bond was increased to $50,000. But for the whole two years I was under indictment, I was free to speak to the media and at rallies and public lectures. I was, after all, part of a movement against an ongoing war. Helping to end that war was my preeminent concern. I couldn’t have done that abroad, and leaving the country never entered my mind.

There is no chance that experience could be reproduced today, let alone that a trial could be terminated by the revelation of White House actions against a defendant that were clearly criminal in Richard Nixon’s era — and figured in his resignation in the face of impeachment — but are today all regarded as legal (including an attempt to “incapacitate me totally”).

Daniel Ellsberg: NSA leaker Snowden made the right call - The Washington Post
 
Nothing to say but inaccurate personal abuse. Why am I not surprised.

Well, since every comment you make is a vitriolic attack on my country, what in the hell do you expect? As soon as I see your name, I know exactly what I'm going to read. You are as predictable as sunrise.
 
for what it is worth here is a opinion from Daniel Ellsberg, who famously released the pentagon papers.



Daniel Ellsberg: NSA leaker Snowden made the right call - The Washington Post

Ellsberg's comments are worth nothing to me, but at least he had the courage of his convictions. The current loser immediately high-tailed it for China and then Moscow. Just another two-bit traitor, seeking publicity and accolades from the Far Left and the Far Right, which he has, of course, received.
 
My previous posts on the subject already did. Prove you can stop trolling at least for one week.

So, apparently, the answer is you can't prove he is lying...as you accused him of.

Noted.

I've already answered your post many times in this thread before you even made this post. Try reading.

So, is that a 'yes' or a 'no', please?
 
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Ellsberg's comments are worth nothing to me, but at least he had the courage of his convictions. The current loser immediately high-tailed it for China and then Moscow. Just another two-bit traitor, seeking publicity and accolades from the Far Left and the Far Right, which he has, of course, received.

Indeed. Sad but true.

This is revealing a very ugly side of some of my fellow libertarians. It seems that there are many who oppose authority for its own sake, not out of principle but merely because they like rebellion. But a true Libertarian should loathe Snowden because fundamental to Liberty is Responsibility. So many libertarians forget that liberty is a double edged sword. It doesn't just mean doing what you please, it means taking personal responsibility for the harm you cause.
 
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Indeed. Sad but true.

This is revealing a very ugly side of some of my fellow libertarians. It seems that there are many who oppose authority for its own sake, not own of principle but merely because they lie rebellion. But a true Libertarian should loathe Snowden because fundamental to Liberty is Responsibility. So many libertarians forget that liberty is a double edged sword. It doesn't just mean doing what you please, it means taking personal responsibility for the harm you cause.

You mean like Ron Paul?

Ron Paul: NSA Whistleblower Snowden is a 'Hero' | Peace . Gold . Liberty
 
I'll take that as a 'no' to my question.

Noted.


Have a nice day.


Have a nice

You can assume anything you want. When you want an actual discussion, try reading what I wrote and actually formulating a response based on it instead of running away.
 
There is a difference in standing up for what you believe and tattling as you run away. I'll come back to Rosa Parks for the difference.

I guess that would make Albert Einstein and Saul cowards then.
 
I guess that would make Albert Einstein and Saul cowards then.

I am not sure which Saul you are talking about but Einstein was certainu an enemy to the Third Riech. I don't think that. Makes him a coward or a hypocrite since that is what he wanted to be. Snowden claims to be a patriot, yet he has betrayed the USA. He is no Einstein.
 
I am not sure which Saul you are talking about

Acts 9:25


Snowden claims to be a patriot, yet he has betrayed the USA. He is no Einstein.

How did he betray the USA? He has done Americans a favor by opening their eyes to the unconstitutional practices of our State.
 
Coward?
Can't say.
Stupid?
Yes, definitely !

If this was outed under the Bush Admin. I have a feeling you would be singing a different tune.
 
We call Snowden a criminal and condemn him because he broke the law, violated his oath and refused to work within the system.

We revere many people in history who did exactly that.
 
Indeed. Sad but true.

This is revealing a very ugly side of some of my fellow libertarians. It seems that there are many who oppose authority for its own sake, not out of principle but merely because they like rebellion.

The govt is in open rebellion against the Constitution. I have no respect for a govt that does not respect its own law.

But a true Libertarian should loathe Snowden because fundamental to Liberty is Responsibility. So many libertarians forget that liberty is a double edged sword. It doesn't just mean doing what you please, it means taking personal responsibility for the harm you cause.

What harm has Snowden caused?
 
Acts 9:25

Ok, well Paul stood up to his punishment to make is point. There is no comparison.

How did he betray the USA? He has done Americans a favor by opening their eyes to the unconstitutional practices of our State.
He revealed classified information, which is bad bough in itself. Then he defected to Venezuela. He did no favors to anybody. If something is supposedly unconstitutional there are proper channels through rule of law to deal with it, and whether it was constitutional or not is by no means certain. It was perfectly legally legitimate. It's not like Snowden was doing something heroic like standing up to real human rights violations like torture. He betrayed top secret information that caused grave harm to national security over misguided concerns about antiquated notions of privacy.

Invasion of privacy, bah! Talk about champagne problems.
 
The govt is in open rebellion against the Constitution. I have no respect for a govt that does not respect its own law.

Incorrect. these were warranted searches.

What harm has Snowden caused?
Untold harm to national security.
 
Ok, well Paul stood up to his punishment to make is point. There is no comparison.

He fled Damascus to avoid persecution. Snowden fled US to avoid persecution.

And I don't understand your point on Einstein. Yes, he was an enemy of Third Reich. The US govt considers Snowden an enemy too.


He revealed classified information, which is bad bough in itself.

I guess you think revealing the Pentagon Papers was bad too? No one but the govt was harmed by the revelation of this information... not that we didn't already know this stuff was going on.

Then he defected to Venezuela.

I know he was offered asylum from Venezuela, but I think he's still in Moscow. Anyways, he doesn't have many options since US took away his visa. Also, US has made economic threats against others.

He did no favors to anybody. If something is supposedly unconstitutional there are proper channels through rule of law to deal with it, and whether it was constitutional or not is by no means certain. It was perfectly legally legitimate.

I am surprised at you Guy. Normally I completely agree with you, especially your positions on taxation. But you are completely off here. The NSA program was a clear violation of the Fourth Amendment. That is not even debatable amongst libertarians.

It's not like Snowden was doing something heroic like standing up to real human rights violations like torture. He betrayed top secret information that caused grave harm to national security over misguided concerns about antiquated notions of privacy.

You are spouting govt propaganda here. No harm was caused to the American people through him confirming what was already known.


Invasion of privacy, bah! Talk about champagne problems.

A libertarian defending the Patriot Act. Talk about an oxymoron. ;)
 
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