Lois Lerner’s price for testimony: Immunity

OpportunityCost · Jul 3, 2013

rocket88 said:
I'm saying we can't say for sure one way or the other based on the evidence so far. Person A knowing =/= Person B knowing.

Which is more or less exactly what I meant. Leave the folder on the desk, leave the room for 10 minutes, come back, take the folder and leave.

Plausibly deniable sort of way. Lets put it this way---if you were the Chief Counsel for the White House and there was a possible problem that was going to look like political targeting with the IRS---wouldnt you tell your boss about it? Or would you just "handle" it. Im betting you would push that one to the front office unless you were the guy who initiated the program.

Master PO · Jul 3, 2013

Fisher said:
She has invoked her 5th Amendment rights.

If you want the truth then immunity will be appropriate. The political hostility that leads people to twist people's words and engage in trickery are the reason people are like this. "Well early you testified that the file was big and now you are saying it is large. Which is it, big or large and why are you changing your story?"

that is in question, when you invoke your right, you state that purpose and only that purpose, and dont go into a statement, ...........that you are innocent, and have done nothing wrong.

its the same as saying i get to give you my defense, ..........but you cant ask me any questions.

humbolt · Jul 3, 2013

rocket88 said:
Well that's because your expectations are low...:2razz:

Heh. Maybe. I think it could be performance related.

Moot · Jul 3, 2013

It's rather curious that not a single conservative group was denied by the IRS. Not one.

"...The Treasury Inspector General for Tax Administration's audit found (page 14) that "For the 296 potential political cases we reviewed, as of December 17, 2012, 108 applications had been approved, 28 were withdrawn by the applicant, none had been denied, and 160 cases were open from 206 to 1,138 calendar days (some crossing two election cycles)."[14] Bloomberg News reported on May 14, 2013 that "None of the Republican groups have said their applications were rejected....
IRS Sent Same Letter to Democrats That Fed Tea Party Row - Bloomberg

2013 IRS scandal - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

At this point, it's just another GOP political witch hunt. Funny thing is, it's the Bush appointees that are getting caught in the crossfire.

humbolt · Jul 3, 2013

Moot said:
At this point, it's just another GOP political witch hunt. Funny thing is, it's the Bush appointees that are getting caught in the crossfire.

But it's the democrats who all have carrots on their noses. Lois is simply claiming now that someone in the administration put the carrot on her nose, but she got better when she knew she'd have to testify.

tommytunes · Jul 3, 2013

Maggie

I thought i heard the immunity thing also ,see my post above.

Bronson · Jul 3, 2013

rocket88 said:
I have not now, nor have I ever defended the actions of the IRS, except in the minds of Conservatives who say "Uhh...he doesn't think Darrel Issa is a Saint. He's defending them!"

Their actions were wrong, but that is not what interests Issa or his committee. That is not why the hearings are being held, and that is not why you are beating their drum for them.

Laughable. This is not about Issa. This is about the IRS under the Obama Administration acting like the Gestapo. Your logic would be like the Nazis claiming that any investigation into the burning of synagogues wouldn't be credible if the investigation was done by Jews.

"I don't condone what the IRS, but they are a victim of teh ebil Issa or something"

Your excuses are pathetic and a smokescreen. Do you think the IRS was concerned that the Obama Administration was going to crack down on them and hold them accountable for specifically targeting Americans for their political beliefs? Yea, I don't think so. You don't care about the truth. You want this swept under the rug. It's obvious.

Fisher · Jul 3, 2013

ernst barkmann said:
that is in question, when you invoke your right, you state that purpose and only that purpose, and dont go into a statement, ...........that you are innocent, and have done nothing wrong.

its the same as saying i get to give you my defense, ..........but you cant ask me any questions.

No people can stop a police interrogation and invoke their rights whenever they want. It isn't like because they answer a question that they have magically lost their rights. The difference is when it happens in the courtroom as opposed to out of court and a Congressional hearing room is not a court room so the courtroom testimony rules do not apply.

In the end this is all theater. The Congressmen want to get her to say something that can be cut into a soundbite that will be followed by them prancing and posing for the cameras. If they wanted the truth they could bring back the special prosecutors or have offered her immunity going in. They wanted her to invoke her rights on TV, which she was smart for doing, because it creates the illusion that there is criminal behavior going on. That she was smart enough to not let herself be ripped to shreds by a bunch of hacks who could give a crap about the truth is to her credit. In case you have not noticed, every Representative's time consists of them asking a couple short answer questions and then yammering on endlessly on behalf of their side of the aisle--either praising somebody or condemning somebody. These things are a waste of taxpayer money if there is a TV camera in the room.

Moot · Jul 3, 2013

humbolt said:
But it's the democrats who all have carrots on their noses. Lois is simply claiming now that someone in the administration put the carrot on her nose, but she got better when she knew she'd have to testify.

Interesting. So what and where did Lerner claim someone in the adminstration "put a carrot on her nose"...so to speak?

Why would Lerner spill the beans before she got her "immunity" deal?

Master PO · Jul 3, 2013

Fisher said:
No people can stop a police interrogation and invoke their rights whenever they want. It isn't like because they answer a question that they have magically lost their rights. The difference is when it happens in the courtroom as opposed to out of court and a Congressional hearing room is not a court room so the courtroom testimony rules do not apply.

In the end this is all theater. The Congressmen want to get her to say something that can be cut into a soundbite that will be followed by them prancing and posing for the cameras. If they wanted the truth they could bring back the special prosecutors or have offered her immunity going in. They wanted her to invoke her rights on TV, which she was smart for doing, because it creates the illusion that there is criminal behavior going on. That she was smart enough to not let herself be ripped to shreds by a bunch of hacks who could give a crap about the truth is to her credit. In case you have not noticed, every Representative's time consists of them asking a couple short answer questions and then yammering on endlessly on behalf of their side of the aisle--either praising somebody or condemning somebody. These things are a waste of taxpayer money if there is a TV camera in the room.

well i listen to a constitutional judge on the issue, and he stated there is validity on both sides of the isle....but he did state it leaned against the woman in question, becuase of more rulings against what she did..

Moot · Jul 3, 2013

Bronson said:
Laughable. This is not about Issa. This is about the IRS under the Obama Administration acting like the Gestapo. Your logic would be like the Nazis claiming that any investigation into the burning of synagogues wouldn't be credible if the investigation was done by Jews.

"I don't condone what the IRS, but they are a victim of teh ebil Issa or something"

Your excuses are pathetic and a smokescreen. Do you think the IRS was concerned that the Obama Administration was going to crack down on them and hold them accountable for specifically targeting Americans for their political beliefs? Yea, I don't think so. You don't care about the truth. You want this swept under the rug. It's obvious.

How many people have the IRS killed? Are they moving people into Fema camps? Frankly, I think your comments about the Gestapo, Nazis and synagogues is not only insulting to Jews but to everyone who fought in WW2.

Bronson · Jul 3, 2013

Moot said:
How many people have the IRS killed? Are they moving people into Fema camps? Frankly, I think your comments about the Gestapo, Nazis and synagogues is not only insulting to Jews but to everyone who fought in WW2.

Americans are being targeted, intimidated and harassed for their political beliefs. That's Fascism.

Frankly, you can take your opinion and shove it

humbolt · Jul 3, 2013

Moot said:
Interesting. So what and where did Lerner claim someone in the adminstration "put a carrot on her nose"...so to speak?

Why would Lerner spill the beans before she got her "immunity" deal?

Ah, the humorless left. Never watched any Monty Python, huh? You were the one rambling on about witches. Here's the better question: Why does Lerner need immunity in the first place? She made a statement claiming she did nothing wrong. I guess she was lying. Imagine that.

apdst · Jul 3, 2013

MaggieD said:
It's my understanding that a court ruled that, since she gave a statement, she effectively waived those rights. ??

She's trying to keep her ass out of jail. She would screw a snake, at this point, if she thought it might help. :rofl

apdst · Jul 3, 2013

Moot said:
Interesting. So what and where did Lerner claim someone in the adminstration "put a carrot on her nose"...so to speak?

Why would Lerner spill the beans before she got her "immunity" deal?

But...but...but...Lois said that there was no wrong doing. Why would she want immunity all of a sudden?

rocket88 · Jul 3, 2013

Bronson said:

You would know what a strawman looks like. Most of your arguments are based on this image of the leftist that you got from someone else (I'd say it was yours, but you're clearly incapable of independent thought)

Laughable. This is not about Issa. This is about the IRS under the Obama Administration acting like the Gestapo. Your logic would be like the Nazis claiming that any investigation into the burning of synagogues wouldn't be credible if the investigation was done by Jews.

Thank God, I was wondering when this thread would be Godwin-ized. I don't think that holocaust survivors would necessarily have made the most neutral observers there, but that's not really the point is it.

Do you trust the Republicans to care about the truth? Simple question. Do you trust the government?

"I don't condone what the IRS, but they are a victim of teh ebil Issa or something"

They're not victims, but a political investigation done by politicians does not make for faith that the truth will come out.

Your excuses are pathetic and a smokescreen. Do you think the IRS was concerned that the Obama Administration was going to crack down on them and hold them accountable for specifically targeting Americans for their political beliefs? Yea, I don't think so. You don't care about the truth. You want this swept under the rug. It's obvious.

What's obvious is that you want to lynch Obama now, short of any proof. Do you think that House Republicans give a rat's ass about the truth? Yea, I don't think so. Unlike some, I don't trust the government regardless of party affiliations.

rocket88 · Jul 3, 2013

Fisher said:
In the end this is all theater. The Congressmen want to get her to say something that can be cut into a soundbite that will be followed by them prancing and posing for the cameras. If they wanted the truth they could bring back the special prosecutors or have offered her immunity going in. They wanted her to invoke her rights on TV, which she was smart for doing, because it creates the illusion that there is criminal behavior going on. That she was smart enough to not let herself be ripped to shreds by a bunch of hacks who could give a crap about the truth is to her credit. In case you have not noticed, every Representative's time consists of them asking a couple short answer questions and then yammering on endlessly on behalf of their side of the aisle--either praising somebody or condemning somebody. These things are a waste of taxpayer money if there is a TV camera in the room.

Stop making excuses for the IRS. It's obvious that you just want to sweep this under the rug so it doesn't hurt your Messiah.

(Did I do that right?)

rocket88 · Jul 3, 2013

humbolt said:
Ah, the humorless left. Never watched any Monty Python, huh? You were the one rambling on about witches. Here's the better question: Why does Lerner need immunity in the first place? She made a statement claiming she did nothing wrong. I guess she was lying. Imagine that.

She turned him into a newt.

He never got better.

rocket88 · Jul 3, 2013

Bronson said:
Americans are being targeted, intimidated and harassed for their political beliefs. That's Fascism.

Frankly, you can take your opinion and shove it

Sorry, it's not even close to the holocaust.

Bronson · Jul 3, 2013

rocket88 said:
You would know what a strawman looks like. Most of your arguments are based on this image of the leftist that you got from someone else (I'd say it was yours, but you're clearly incapable of independent thought)

History is what Leftists and Collectivists look like. Authoritarian and Tyrannical.

Thank God, I was wondering when this thread would be Godwin-ized. I don't think that holocaust survivors would necessarily have made the most neutral observers there, but that's not really the point is it.

Godwin's Law doesn't apply if the shoe fits. Try again. You're wearing out that card faster than the race card. Americans are being targeted for their beliefs. Government is being used as a tool for harassment and intimidation.

Do you trust the Republicans to care about the truth? Simple question. Do you trust the government?

Do you trust the Government to run your HC? Do you trust the Government with more than 2.2T in tax money collected every year. Your hypocrisy is once again on full display. Liberals think the Government can run our lives but God forbid Congress do it's job and investigate corruption right?

They're not victims, but a political investigation done by politicians does not make for faith that the truth will come out.

You're hiding behind the "it's political" smokescreen because you don't want anyone that investigates or criticizes Obama to be perceived as credible.

What's obvious is that you want to lynch Obama now, short of any proof. Do you think that House Republicans give a rat's ass about the truth? Yea, I don't think so. Unlike some, I don't trust the government regardless of party affiliations.

Case in point

Oh so now I want to "lynch" Obama! Sorry, the only people that lynched blacks in our history were left wing KKK Democrats. Try again.

rocket88 said:
View attachment 67149835

Sorry, it's not even close to the holocaust.

Fascism is Fascism. Americans are being purposely targeted for their beliefs and harassed and intimidated. Nobody is claiming people are going to be marched off into the ovens tomorrow. You're engaging in a strawman fallacy.

Do you think the definition of fascism = Jews in ovens? Is that your interpretation of what Fascism means? Yes or No

apdst · Jul 3, 2013

rocket88 said:
View attachment 67149835

Sorry, it's not even close to the holocaust.

The symbolism is perfect, however.

Fisher · Jul 3, 2013

rocket88 said:
Stop making excuses for the IRS. It's obvious that you just want to sweep this under the rug so it doesn't hurt your Messiah.

(Did I do that right?)

Not really. I'll give you a C-. You should have replaced "IRS" with "Obama's Star Chamber" and half the time i type "Messiah" auto-correct changes it to "Ronald Reagan" so I go with "Kenyan Fertility God".

Bronson · Jul 3, 2013

apdst said:
The symbolism is perfect, however.

Apprently the IRS has to kill someone now before they can be criticized and investigated for acting like the Gestapo and targeting Americans for their beliefs according to the Left

rocket88 · Jul 3, 2013

Bronson said:
History is what Leftists and Collectivists look like. Authoritarian and Tyrannical.

Just don't talk about right wingers, because then your not interested in playing anymore. I'm not interested in playing your Bull**** games. Get real or get lost.

Godwin's Law doesn't apply if the shoe fits. Try again. You're wearing out that card faster than the race card. Americans are being targeted for their beliefs. Government is being used as a tool for harassment and intimidation.

I'm afraid Godwin's law does apply. You don't get to define the rules and make the rest of us play along. I know that's a favorite righty trick, but that don't fly here. If you think this compares to the holocaust, you have absolutely no perspective. Which is what I have come to expect from the right.

I don't play the race card, you do (see below)

Do you trust the Government to run your HC? Do you trust the Government with more than 2.2T in tax money collected every year. Your hypocrisy is once again on full display. Liberals think the Government can run our lives but God forbid Congress do it's job and investigate corruption right?

I don't trust the government to do anything. You're the one who trusts the government here. Trying for yet another strawman, I see. Typical.

[/QUOTE]

Case in point

Oh so now I want to "lynch" Obama! Sorry, the only people that lynched blacks in our history were left wing KKK Democrats. Try again.

You're the one who turned this into Obama's race. Must be a dogwhistle thing. Keep playing that race card, it'll work for you someday.

Oh, and the KKK was conservative. History's a bitch. Not surprisingly, you wouldn't know history if it hit you across the face.

Fascism is Fascism. Americans are being purposely targeted for their beliefs and harassed and intimidated. Nobody is claiming people are going to be marched off into the ovens tomorrow. You're engaging in a strawman fallacy.

I'm engaging in a strawman fallacy? You're the one who can't address anything I actually said because to do so you would have to stray from your Con talking points.

Do you think the definition of fascism = Jews in ovens? Is that your interpretation of what Fascism means? Yes or No

Do you think this is like the holocaust? Yes or no.

rocket88 · Jul 3, 2013

apdst said:
The symbolism is perfect, however.

Just when you thought the stupidity couldn't get any worse....THIS IS JUST LIKE THE HOLOCAUST!

Lois Lerner’s price for testimony: Immunity

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