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Amercans suspicious of NSA's recent comments

CanadaJohn said:
Apparently not. And what makes you think it's limited to phone lines?
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It was never limited. The NSA has been monitoring communications since the Patriot Act. If people didn't know, they weren't paying attention and they're stupid for not giving a **** when the scandal first hit in the early 2000's. It was already revealed long ago that the NSA had contracts with major telecommunication companies, namely AT&T. I'm starting to feel like I'm one of very few people here who remembers any of this. It made headlines all over the US, and wasn't even that long ago FFS.
 
Surtr said:
It was never limited. The NSA has been monitoring communications since the Patriot Act. If people didn't know, they weren't paying attention and they're stupid for not giving a **** when the scandal first hit in the early 2000's. It was already revealed long ago that the NSA had contracts with major telecommunication companies, namely AT&T. I'm starting to feel like I'm one of very few people here who remembers any of this. It made headlines all over the US, and wasn't even that long ago FFS.
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I think "tererun" hit the nail on the head. It has been a failure of the Major Media to properly and accurately inform the masses. This goes back to the fact that our major media is infiltrated with Intelligence Agency plants to make sure they can adjust the National viewpoints. Let them infest foreign news Media and leave us alone. How do we change these things and get the gov't to concentrate on the real enemies of the people, not the potential enemies of the Corporations?
 
tererun said:
I would not say that. i would say americans were presented with the idea that the NSA would only be tapping people who were considered a threat. Most people have a faith that they are off the radar for being either really small time, or not criminal at all. This gives them the sort of idea that whoever gets hit made a mistake and was either associating with or participating as some sort of criminal. It was even presented to them that a "court" would be presiding over the warrants just like normal. They also have this view that if wronged they would carry the rights of a citizen which would protect them from the illegally seized information being used improperly against them. I agree they were wrong and really stupid to think that is the case, but most people are not investigators or even well educated on politics.


I don't really consider myself on the well educated side of politics when compared to real investigative reporters, people who participate in the system, or even many ameteur political geeks. Still, most people i have talked to get their information from MSM which is terrible. They are relying on the investigative reporters of the MSM to do their fact finding for them, and they barely realize the MSM is so hand in hand with the liars now. Even the people who make good arguments against the MSM have been made to look like tinfoil hat loonies by certain MSM media hacks who toss around crazy conspiracies with facts they wish to discredit. So how are the people who have no clue about how bad things are, no desire to find out, and no time to do the research if they did supposed to get the information they need when their trusted sources are part of the problem? Most people are not bright, and so they trust places like the news.

this one is up to the people to get the word out because the news cannot be trusted on any side. they may fight over certain things, but they are circling all the wagons around Snowden needing to be silenced. The people were lied to by the news, and are still being lied to. Of course the politicians lied, it is their job, but people still believe them for some strange reason.
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Ignorance is not an excuse, especially in this day and age where an unlimited wealth of knowledge is readily available at the click of a mouse. This was also reported on. Heavily. It was a huge scandal, and nobody seems to remember it for absolutely no reason. Like it never happened. Maybe tv really does make people retarded, because I remember when the NSA wiretaps, and the deal they had with AT&T was a huge scandal that pissed off the entire nation. Now it's like the **** never happened. And these are the people Snowden destroyed his ****ing life over. At least we know he'll be forgotten by August.
 
DaveFagan said:
I think "tererun" hit the nail on the head. It has been a failure of the Major Media to properly and accurately inform the masses. This goes back to the fact that our major media is infiltrated with Intelligence Agency plants to make sure they can adjust the National viewpoints. Let them infest foreign news Media and leave us alone. How do we change these things and get the gov't to concentrate on the real enemies of the people, not the potential enemies of the Corporations?
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Except that they DID report it. It was HUGE. If people want to know more, they can research it. It is the individual's responsibility to seek further information. I know the average American is a lazy fat piece of **** that has to be spoon-fed every god damned thing imaginable, but this level of ignorance is inexcusable. Mother ****ers need to do some god damned independent research for once in their lives.
 
Surtr said:
The NSA wiretapping scandal began in 2001. It had even been revealed that the NSA had a contract with several large telecommunications companies that allowed the monitoring and tracking of calls without wiretaps. This has been ongoing for 12 years, and nothing new was revealed. Americans just have pathetically short memory spans.
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Is it amnesia, or simply ignorance?

NYT kept the NSA warrantless searches COVERED UP for more than a year. James Risen's work.

AT & Treason was happy to oblige the assault on the Fourth Amendment.

I think it was complete ignorance for many, but you're right that our selective amnesia also played a role.
 
Henry David said:
Is it amnesia, or simply ignorance?

NYT kept the NSA warrantless searches COVERED UP for more than a year. James Risen's work.

AT & Treason was happy to oblige the assault on the Fourth Amendment.

I think it was complete ignorance for many, but you're right that our selective amnesia also played a role.
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I honestly don't know what it is, but as much as they tried to cover it up, it still came out. Just like the Ports of Dubai scandal that came up, people forgot about that in a week. Starting to think that memory eraser gadget from Men in Black is a real thing.
 
Surtr said:
It was never limited. The NSA has been monitoring communications since the Patriot Act. If people didn't know, they weren't paying attention and they're stupid for not giving a **** when the scandal first hit in the early 2000's. It was already revealed long ago that the NSA had contracts with major telecommunication companies, namely AT&T. I'm starting to feel like I'm one of very few people here who remembers any of this. It made headlines all over the US, and wasn't even that long ago FFS.
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I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details? If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details?
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Education and knowledge are a personal responsibility. The worst part is that this event was reported on, and Americans apparently didn't care enough to remember it, so now that we're reminded of what we should have already known, it's a brand new outrage, same as the last forgotten outrage. If the People don't care enough to know what's going on, they reap the consequences of their apathy, and we collectively deserve every bit of it.

If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
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This problem goes back well beyond Obama, even before the Patriot Act. The problem is that we're a nation of spoiled, fat children who expect o have everything handed to us. the government bends over backwards to accommodate that, and in doing so, violates the Constitution, and every sense of human decency to make sure Uncle Sam's hundreds of millions of little babies get what they want. It's a continuous cycle of enabling, and it's not something to be proud of. It's a cancer that needs to be cut out and incinerated. This country is sick and dying, and nobody in this country seems to give a ****, and long as they can get what's in it for them.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details? If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
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CJ, the problem is that many people do expect our elected officials to know what they are voting on! Unfortunately, the average man on the street is not one who follows happenings in DC, and our representatives are counting on that! It makes their jobs easier if they don't have to have their staff read that pesky boring stuff, which is why things are as they are, IMO. This can't go on forever, though, but it's so messy now that it will doubtless be too late for easy changes when someone decides to honestly tackle this! I shudder to contemplate the level of screaming that will be heard then! :shock: :blastem:
 
Surtr said:
Education and knowledge are a personal responsibility. The worst part is that this event was reported on, and Americans apparently didn't care enough to remember it, so now that we're reminded of what we should have already known, it's a brand new outrage, same as the last forgotten outrage. If the People don't care enough to know what's going on, they reap the consequences of their apathy, and we collectively deserve every bit of it.


This problem goes back well beyond Obama, even before the Patriot Act. The problem is that we're a nation of spoiled, fat children who expect o have everything handed to us. the government bends over backwards to accommodate that, and in doing so, violates the Constitution, and every sense of human decency to make sure Uncle Sam's hundreds of millions of little babies get what they want. It's a continuous cycle of enabling, and it's not something to be proud of. It's a cancer that needs to be cut out and incinerated. This country is sick and dying, and nobody in this country seems to give a ****, and long as they can get what's in it for them.
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I don't agree that the extent of government collection of communications data by the NSA was reported on previously. There was, to my recollection, concern that the FISA court was perhaps being used inappropriately by Bush, but that was never proven and congress worked towards more controls and information related to FISA court matters. In the latest revelations, it's not a matter of the FISA courts being abused, it's the FISA court being initially ignored because the NSA isn't listening in, originally, their just scooping up all communications activity between anyone in the US and someone outside the US.

As I said, the American people may be supportive of these actions, if they were made aware of them and the rationale for them. The administration, like many before it, doesn't trust the American people to agree with them so they don't share information. If you believe this administration is the "most transparent in history", you deserve to be in the dark.
 
CanadaJohn said:
I don't doubt your take on this - I would just say, if the average member of Congress isn't expected to read and know the details about pieces of legislation they adopt, how the hell do you expect the average American to read and know the details? If government wants the people to support them in such endeavors, and I believe the people do, it requires the government to be honest and upfront with them. That's the main problem here - the supposedly most transparent administration in American history is anything but.
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Easy there, John. Don't inject too much common sense into the thread. I'm not sure the participants can take it.
 
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