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The Disability Scam: A Great Government Freebie

winston53660 said:
Nice political fodder but there really is more to the story
Disability Rolls and the Makers/Takers/Fakers Nonsense | Jared Bernstein | On the Economy
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I'll see your opinion blog written by the Obama administration progressive policy wonk with a degree in social work.

And I'll raise you an acedemic paper written by a pair of Wharton and Michigan State University economics professors for the National Bureau of Economic Research that systematically dismantles Bernstein's opinion:

http://www.nber.org/chapters/c11119.pdf

Their findings, in a nutshell?

The rate of SSI disability claims is skyrocketing, in large part as a function of increased unemployment, an increase in the "kinds" of "disabilities" that SSID is paying on, and an increase in the dolar value of benefits being paid.

Guy loses his job, learns that he can claim disability for a "back injury" that is undetectable by any known method of medical testing or imaging and won't be refuted by the government, that he can knock back $20,000 a year in federal SSI entitlements, plus supplemental state disability payments in many cases, plus full coverage health insurance through Medicare (which he's automatically enrolled in after 24 months on disability), maybe a couple hundred dollars a month in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program entitlements (if the SSID determination isn't at or near the max).

And as a kicker the "disabled" may qualify for a lifetime supply of free (courtsey of Medicare) narcotic pain medications!!!

Pretty sweet deal, no?

Risky Thicket said:
Great article. Most people won't read it because it is more than a paragraph long, requires a bit of deductive reasoning and has a couple of charts. It also challenges preconceived and uninformed opinions. People hate that ****. Facts feck up an emotionally based opinion.
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I expect that a smart guy like you will be reading the paper and that we can expect you to rebut it in a substantive bais here shortly.

Be warned, it includes more than a few deceptive charts and a handful of paragraphs.
 
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I like how the assumption is that more people on disability means that everyone with disabilities is already covered and the additions are just people lying. Maybe more people are getting hurt. Maybe there were a lot of people who, despite actual disability, were previously denied and now that has been rectified. The right just seems obsessed with the idea of people gaming the system. That's behind all discussions of welfare, immigration, and voting.
 
ocean515 said:
You are aware the Act passed by unanimous vote of both Houses of Congress?
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Good morning, ocean515. :2wave:

As usual in government, long range planning was not included, that I am aware of.. Human nature being what it is, it was inevitable that the program would grow by leaps and bounds, and cost lots more than initially envisioned, as people became aware of a way to beat the system. Not everyone who has back pain is unable to work, but how to change the standards now? As an example, if we target the obese, there will probably be lawsuits claiming discrimination. What a mess because of short-sighted thinking! :argue:
 
We know many people who are on disability and/or public assistance who work full time as "contract labor" or in their own business to be paid in cash so they don't have to report it. I would be surprised if even 50% of non-senior aged adults on disability aren't working on a cash basis.
 
minnie616 said:
I was just giving an example that back pain from certain diseases such as severe spinal stenosis is not enough to qualify one for
SSDI unless they also have a number of other physical limitations such as those I described for physical labor.
Other tests would need to be done to see if the person could sit a desk long enough to do paperwork.
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You ever stop to ask the question if those tests are actually useful for making such a determination? Or maybe that the qualifying standards are too lax?
 
polgara said:
Good morning, ocean515. :2wave:

As usual in government, long range planning was not included, that I am aware of.. Human nature being what it is, it was inevitable that the program would grow by leaps and bounds, and cost lots more than initially envisioned, as people became aware of a way to beat the system. Not everyone who has back pain is unable to work, but how to change the standards now? As an example, if we target the obese, there will probably be lawsuits claiming discrimination. What a mess because of short-sighted thinking! :argue:
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Good day! :2wave:

I agree with you Polgara. It seems to me, with all the various programs around, and the relative cost of things, it's quite possible to ratchet down one's livings standards to a point where one only has to maintain a heart beat, and the rest will be taken care of.

As you wrote, one of those unforseen deals that government can't, or won't, consider when contemplating new legislation.

It is not within my soul to slide through life when I could be doing something more positive.
 
ReformCollege said:
I am. Which is sad.
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Oh, ok. Just checking. There are some who think the decline of the World was started by one man a little over 30 years ago

To the point, sad? Perhaps just a good idea that was short sighted, in light of the changes in society, and it's growing willingness to pass through life without much effort.
 
ocean515 said:
Oh, ok. Just checking. There are some who think the decline of the World was started by one man a little over 30 years ago

To the point, sad? Perhaps just a good idea that was short sighted, in light of the changes in society, and it's growing willingness to pass through life without much effort.
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I more so brought it up so it didn't turn into a "you're just doing anything you can to blame the Dem's" type of thing.
 
I place myself on complete disability when something I prefer not to do crops up.
 
soot said:
I'll see your opinion blog written by the Obama administration progressive policy wonk with a degree in social work.

And I'll raise you an acedemic paper written by a pair of Wharton and Michigan State University economics professors for the National Bureau of Economic Research that systematically dismantles Bernstein's opinion:

http://www.nber.org/chapters/c11119.pdf

Their findings, in a nutshell?

The rate of SSI disability claims is skyrocketing, in large part as a function of increased unemployment, an increase in the "kinds" of "disabilities" that SSID is paying on, and an increase in the dolar value of benefits being paid.

Guy loses his job, learns that he can claim disability for a "back injury" that is undetectable by any known method of medical testing or imaging and won't be refuted by the government, that he can knock back $20,000 a year in federal SSI entitlements, plus supplemental state disability payments in many cases, plus full coverage health insurance through Medicare (which he's automatically enrolled in after 24 months on disability), maybe a couple hundred dollars a month in Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program entitlements (if the SSID determination isn't at or near the max).

And as a kicker the "disabled" may qualify for a lifetime supply of free (courtsey of Medicare) narcotic pain medications!!!

Pretty sweet deal, no?



I expect that a smart guy like you will be reading the paper and that we can expect you to rebut it in a substantive bais here shortly.

Be warned, it includes more than a few deceptive charts and a handful of paragraphs.
Click to expand...

I'm working on reading it. Looks interesting. I see the it was published as economic research by University of Chicago press; Milton Friedman's Boys. In addition, the chapter was written (and comparative research was conducted) prior to the recession beginning in 2008. It will be interesting to see if that matters in the context of OP.
 
humbolt said:
I place myself on complete disability when something I prefer not to do crops up.
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So after you enjoy your ten minutes of disability, and everyone starts complaining about things not getting done, then what? Is there an 800 number to call for help? If so, please PM me that number...I'll put it to good use..... :lamo:
 
notquiteright said:
YOU brought them up! Why did you bring 'invalid' points into your post, after all YOU started the tread with them??? :confused:
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Damn, can't even back up what you say.....next
 
iliveonramen said:
I've seen these numbers and looked into some of the causes which included looking through disability demographic charts and other source information.

I'm at work so I don't have the time to really post all the links and dredge up all that information....

But for the most part...it seems to be boomers hitting the age of 55 and not quite able to retire yet worn down from manual labor. It's the result of an aging workforce. SS retirement age is fine for someone like me that sits on their ass at a computer for work but it's a different ballgame for someone that depends on providing their physical labor. There's also another part which is the loss of certain job types (manufacturing/construction) and someone that's in their 50's and most likely not going back to school to find a job in another field.

There are some numbers showing younger folks joining disability but once again...probably associated with other factors like workman's comp being chiseled away and the need for health insurance after a workplace injury. I know in Florida Gov Scott has pretty much destroyed workman's comp and our state employ's a lot of blue collar manual labor types.

This is what happens when you deregulate and believe that companies that make tons of profits off of someone's labor is no longer responsible for them. We all subsidize that cheap labor with no benefits.
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no one forced them to work for those companies, that point is moot
 
This is what happens when you deregulate and believe that companies that make tons of profits off of someone's labor is no longer responsible for them. We all subsidize that cheap labor with no benefits.
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This is why Capitalism, while the best system we have now, is an abysmal failure. We need to go back to a free market economy.
 
Risky Thicket said:
You are the victim of misinformation and/or sensationalism.

The AMA has just declared obesity a disease. That does not mean however that obesity is in and of itself a disability nor does it mean that people will obtain benefits for simply being obese.
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Wouldn't you think most people would value their credibility. Not in republican land!
 
Jack Fabulous said:
Fundamental question.

I honestly don't know the answer to this but would like to hear what others think. The theme of pretty much my entire lifetime has been "the rich keep getting richer". Statistics bear this out. The other half of that cliche' is "the poor keep getting poorer". This part I disagree with wholeheartedly because the definition of "poor" keeps changing. Having said that, the question I have is this: If the "wealth gap" in America were to decrease because of governmental policy changes, would the demand for programs like this also decrease?

Thoughts?
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The definition of "rich" keeps changing as well. There was a time when only the rich had electricity. This degree of disparity in income when it is the result of scammers and con artists is ugly. That is why it is easier for a camel to go through the eye of a needle than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of heaven.
 
notquiteright said:
The strategy of today's Progressives... let's see who was President when the rules were loosened? It was 1984 and the President was Reagan and the Republicans controlled the Senate. When did the skyrocket take off? 2000 the same year BushII took office and it has climbed at a pretty consistent rate ever since.

I agree with Maggie it is cheaper to keep them on a small stipend and open the remaining jobs we have here in this country to folks who want them, and are eager to work.

Oh a few questions... this man you say took disability as an early retirement... what do you call a decent early retirement? What state is this? how many other disability recipients have everything paid for?
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Who has a life where everything is paid for? Some people are delusional.
 
iliveonramen said:
Yeah...because everybody chooses where they want to work. That's a fantasy land. People chase jobs for the majority of Americans jobs don't chase people.
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yeah if you are a grunt you chase, if you are performance driven and paid they chase you
 
iliveonramen said:
I've seen these numbers and looked into some of the causes which included looking through disability demographic charts and other source information.

I'm at work so I don't have the time to really post all the links and dredge up all that information....

But for the most part...it seems to be boomers hitting the age of 55 and not quite able to retire yet worn down from manual labor. It's the result of an aging workforce. SS retirement age is fine for someone like me that sits on their ass at a computer for work but it's a different ballgame for someone that depends on providing their physical labor. There's also another part which is the loss of certain job types (manufacturing/construction) and someone that's in their 50's and most likely not going back to school to find a job in another field.

There are some numbers showing younger folks joining disability but once again...probably associated with other factors like workman's comp being chiseled away and the need for health insurance after a workplace injury. I know in Florida Gov Scott has pretty much destroyed workman's comp and our state employ's a lot of blue collar manual labor types.

This is what happens when you deregulate and believe that companies that make tons of profits off of someone's labor is no longer responsible for them. We all subsidize that cheap labor with no benefits.
Click to expand...

You would think those average joes would recognize that.
 
Paschendale said:
I like how the assumption is that more people on disability means that everyone with disabilities is already covered and the additions are just people lying. Maybe more people are getting hurt. Maybe there were a lot of people who, despite actual disability, were previously denied and now that has been rectified. The right just seems obsessed with the idea of people gaming the system. That's behind all discussions of welfare, immigration, and voting.
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Ever notice that it is THEY who know and interact with all these low lifes?
 
FWIW, the whole system is cockeyed. I meet junkies who get disability because they are junkies. A true self-fulfilling prophecy.

At the same time, I support my "cat ladies" by providing them a house and a car to sustain the 25 cats tat live with them and the hundreds of other cats they foster, spay and neuter.

This is a female couple, together for over 25 years. One of them works and makes $12.50 an hour dispatching brake parts to dealers. The other one stays home and takes care of the cats (25 cats - spotless house) and her leg is so gimpy she can't find work. We got her a job at a Vet but they insisted she lift heavy dogs by herself and she just couldn't. She asked another guy to help her for one minute and got fired for it.

For over a year, we have been put through the disability circus. After you fill out one set of forms, they send more forms. They want medical exams but they won't pay for them so you wait months to see the one fee doctor. If the doctor doesn't come in on your day, they make you start over. So WTF? The system is broken.

Disability fraud hurts people in real need. They should be re-examined frequently and spied on to insure they don't have cash jobs on the side. But those who are actually disabled should get help.

Last week I picked up a hooker (not an escort) at MacDonalds. She has ADD and gets disability at the ripe old age of 21. She said "I don't really have ADD but as long as they want to send me money....". Needless to say, she does have other income sources (I gave her $200 but I won't tell you why :)).

The problem is more government competence than policy. Yet I have yet to attend an election where any kind of crackdown was suggested by either party.

I'll gues that most people on disability are truly disabled and live marginally even with their government check. But there are enough flagrant frauds that it makes the system look bad. This could be fixed - but it won't.
 
ocean515 said:
Oh, ok. Just checking. There are some who think the decline of the World was started by one man a little over 30 years ago

To the point, sad? Perhaps just a good idea that was short sighted, in light of the changes in society, and it's growing willingness to pass through life without much effort.
Click to expand...

And then there are some who think a man elected POTUS five years ago caused the decline of this world!
 
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