• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Herman Cain says U.S. headed ‘towards socialism and towards communism’

upsideguy said:
Theoretically true, but not exactly true. The system is substantially stacked against the voter for the reasons previously outlined. I believe you are still operating from a rather naive view of how the American political works.
Click to expand...

And I believe youre making excuses, trying to blame anyone but yourself for the state of the country.
 
jonny5 said:
They can attempt to influence govt same as anyone else. The don't have force, whereas democratically elected reps do.
Click to expand...

Democratically elected reps have force, corporations have force, and we also have force... To say the corporations dont have power in politics is completely ignorant.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Democratically elected reps have force, corporations have force, and we also have force... To say the corporations dont have power in politics is completely ignorant.
Click to expand...

Yet its true. Power is invested in representatives, who can be removed at any time by voters. Corporations can only attempt to influence voters or govt, same as voters can attempt to influence govt. In the end a individual person has to cast a vote, not a corporation. Which is why I don't blame govt for heading towards socialism. I blame voters. Socialism is what they want. And liberals in particular. They are the ones who pushed for more power to the govt over our daily lives.
 
jonny5 said:
Yet its true. Power is invested in representatives, who can be removed at any time by voters. Corporations can only attempt to influence voters or govt, same as voters can attempt to influence govt. In the end a individual person has to cast a vote, not a corporation. Which is why I don't blame govt for heading towards socialism. I blame voters. Socialism is what they want. And liberals in particular. They are the ones who pushed for more power to the govt over our daily lives.
Click to expand...

:lamo
What world do you live in? Who bankrolls politicians? Who donates and runs the campaigns? SUPER PACS... Who are Super PACS ran by mostly? Corporations. But you talk about personhood a lot here. But remember corporations are people now too ya know...
 
jonny5 said:
Yet its true. Power is invested in representatives, who can be removed at any time by voters. Corporations can only attempt to influence voters or govt, same as voters can attempt to influence govt. In the end a individual person has to cast a vote, not a corporation. Which is why I don't blame govt for heading towards socialism. I blame voters. Socialism is what they want. And liberals in particular. They are the ones who pushed for more power to the govt over our daily lives.
Click to expand...

American liberals aren't socialists and they could barely ever pass as social democrats
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Herman Cain says U.S. headed ‘towards socialism and towards communism’

Supposedly somehow in fantasy land amongst the right we are turning into a "socialist" country, then apparently we are going to become a stateless, classless society... This people are ****ing insane. :screwy[/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

Of course the left will now attack him. I guess that's because of all the examples of Obama expanding personal freedom and fighting against government taking rights and control from the individual.
 
nota bene said:
I really appreciate your contribution to this thread. Venom adds spice to the conversation.
Click to expand...

Speaks to his character

Not that I'd really care about any republican's opinion, let alone your average american's opinion on what makes a country socialist/communist anyway
 
TheDemSocialist said:
:lamo
What world do you live in? Who bankrolls politicians? Who donates and runs the campaigns? SUPER PACS... Who are Super PACS ran by mostly? Corporations. But you talk about personhood a lot here. But remember corporations are people now too ya know...
Click to expand...

No they arent.
 
instagramsci said:
American liberals aren't socialists and they could barely ever pass as social democrats
Click to expand...

Liberals want redistribution of wealth and central economy control. That by definition, makes them socialists. So are conservatives to a lesser degree.
 
jonny5 said:
Liberals want redistribution of wealth and central economy control. That by definition, makes them socialists. So are conservatives to a lesser degree.
Click to expand...

So a false premise supports your false definition.

I think we have libertarianism in action here folks.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Herman Cain says U.S. headed ‘towards socialism and towards communism’

Supposedly somehow in fantasy land amongst the right we are turning into a "socialist" country, then apparently we are going to become a stateless, classless society... This people are ****ing insane. :screwy[/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

We already are Socialist/Fascist under Obama

NSA/IRS targeting Americans for their beliefs. Crony Capitalism rampant throughout WA with crooked deals like Brightsource and Solyndra.
 
Bronson said:
We already are Socialist/Fascist under Obama
Click to expand...
Socialism and fascism are total contradicting ideas. You cant be both at once...


NSA/IRS targeting Americans for their beliefs.
Click to expand...
Thats been happening for a while not just under Obama..

Crony Capitalism rampant throughout WA with crooked deals like Brightsource and Solyndra.
Click to expand...
This has also been happening for a very very long time. Isnt something new with Obama.. And isnt socialism since its called crony CAPITALISM.
 
Anthony60 said:
Of course the left will now attack him. I guess that's because of all the examples of Obama expanding personal freedom and fighting against government taking rights and control from the individual.
Click to expand...

We are "attacking" him because of Obama? What? Or are we "attacking" him because he is a complete moron? Im gonna go with the latter.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Socialism and fascism are total contradicting ideas. You cant be both at once...
Click to expand...

They are both Left Wing Collectivist Ideologies. Mussolini's roots were deeply rooted in Marxism. He felt Fascism, which is Socialism funded with hand picked corporations and crony capitalism, was a more efficient system. He felt that Marx had it wrong with his ideas on class struggle and felt he had improved upon the concept. The Nazis were Socialists as well who emulated Mussolini's Fascist system of Socialist Government.

Thats been happening for a while not just under Obama..
Click to expand...

I'm not interested in blaming the distractions of Left/Right paradigms for the Fascism we're living in under Obama. The IRS purposely targeted Americans whose political views were not aligned with Obama's regime. The NSA is targeting and collecting all of our communications under Obama. The IRS had to ask people what their beliefs were during harassment and intimidation. They had to ask for database passwords and a list of what the members of these groups believed. The NSA doesn't need to ask. They just spy on you.

Right now Obama Supporters are in defense mode because they've been conditioned and brainwashed into always finding an excuse to shield their Hope and Change Messiah from any blame and accountability. That's really what these forums have been reduced to. The US Government sprinting towards Fascism under Obama and his supporters running around trying to put out fires, trying to label people who dissent from the Obama Hope and Change narrative as a myriad of horrible things we're supposed to denounce to polarize(racist ect) and blaming another corrupt fraud who hasn't been in office for more than 4 years.

This has also been happening for a very very long time. Isnt something new with Obama.. And isnt socialism since its called crony CAPITALISM.
Click to expand...

Socialism always has to be funded and subsidized with the limited resources available. Fascism is Socialism and Socialism is Socialism. People have been easily brainwashed because Hitler banned all opposition, including communism, but only because the Nazis felt their brand of Socialism was far superior to that of a Jew like Marx who himself was a racist.
 
Bronson said:
They are both Left Wing Collectivist Ideologies. Mussolini's roots were deeply rooted in Marxism. He felt Fascism, which is Socialism funded with hand picked corporations and crony capitalism, was a more efficient system. He felt that Marx had it wrong with his ideas on class struggle and felt he had improved upon the concept. The Nazis were Socialists as well who emulated Mussolini's Fascist system of Socialist Government.
Click to expand...
No... Not even close.. No.. Just no.
You can not have a "fascist system" and socialism. Both are internally conflicting ideologies. Just because you have a "collectivist" system of government, trying to unite people under a single ideology and system does not make one a socialist. They were a corporatist economic system.

I'm not interested in blaming the distractions of Left/Right paradigms for the Fascism we're living in under Obama. The IRS purposely targeted Americans whose political views were not aligned with Obama's regime.
Click to expand...
C'mon man. This little "scandal" is failing by the days go by...
IRS chief: Agency also screened liberal groups | Politics | The Seattle Times
IRS Targeted Progressive Groups, Too, Documents Reveal
We can call anyone a "fascist" simply because they disagree with x, y, or z's political views. But in fact the only thing they share is that we are also a corporatist economy to an extent.

The NSA is targeting and collecting all of our communications under Obama. The IRS had to ask people what their beliefs were during harassment and intimidation. They had to ask for database passwords and a list of what the members of these groups believed. The NSA doesn't need to ask. They just spy on you.
Click to expand...
Ok.. Still does not make on a "fascist". Simply means we are living in a surveillance state.


Socialism always has to be funded and subsidized with the limited resources available. Fascism is Socialism and Socialism is Socialism. People have been easily brainwashed because Hitler banned all opposition, including communism, but only because the Nazis felt their brand of Socialism was far superior to that of a Jew like Marx who himself was a racist.
Click to expand...
:doh
 
TheDemSocialist said:
:lamo
How are we even turning anything close to socialism?
How are we turning anything close to this: Chomsky on Socialism - YouTube
Click to expand...

You still listen to that guy? The same nutcase that said that Pol Pot, the regime responsible for the genocide of between 1.4-2.2M people, was "comparable to France after liberation [from the Nazi's]? Then later claimed that the genocide death toll was inflated by a factor of a thousand? If you want to talk about listening to nutcases living in a fantasy land, you need to only look in the mirror.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
No... Not even close.. No.. Just no.
You can not have a "fascist system" and socialism. Both are internally conflicting ideologies. Just because you have a "collectivist" system of government, trying to unite people under a single ideology and system does not make one a socialist. They were a corporatist economic system.
Click to expand...

Yes. Just yes. History is history and the facts are the facts. Obviously you don't know history. Don't understand these ideologies and are operating from a position of ignorance. Mussolini was a rabid left wing communist before he developed fascism. He felt there were flaws in Marx' theory that could be improved upon.

You're making an emotional argument without any facts. Collectivism is Left Wing Ideology. Fascism is barely to the right of Communism on the ideological spectrum. Now you can stomp your feet, close your eyes and scream no all you want. Doesn't change history. Doesn't change the facts.

C'mon man. This little "scandal" is failing by the days go by...
IRS chief: Agency also screened liberal groups | Politics | The Seattle Times
IRS Targeted Progressive Groups, Too, Documents Reveal
We can call anyone a "fascist" simply because they disagree with x, y, or z's political views. But in fact the only thing they share is that we are also a corporatist economy to an extent.
Click to expand...

More than 500 Conservative, Christian and Jewish Groups were targeted. Keywords used in the targeting was "Patriot", "Constitution" ect. I understand the biased sources you presented want these scandals to go away but they are not going to go away. There is no comparison in regards to what specific groups were targeted. Clearly there was ideological agenda to target and suppress political opposition to Obama before the 2012 election. The IRS was used as the tool. Fact of the matter is Progressive Groups were not targeted and the IRS even leaked information on these Tea Party and Religious groups to a far left political group illegally. If all these Progressive Groups were targeted then why didn't they present any of the leaders of these groups to testify to that fact recently when given the chance? Oh that's right, because there weren't any. Secondly, why should we accept what the IRS did, even if your laughably false narrative is true? So fascism is cool if everyone is targeted by it? Nice logic comrade.

You're willing to accept any flimsy reasoning to try and sweep this under the rug because you've sold out. You're willing to accept your political opposition being targeted, harassed and intimidated because you're a morally bankrupt individual who puts his ideology above his country and Constitution.


Ok.. Still does not make on a "fascist". Simply means we are living in a surveillance state.
:doh
Click to expand...

You don't fundamentally understand these ideologies and are operating from a position of ignorance. That isn't my problem. That's your problem. Surveillance is merely a tool to monitor and control. What the IRS and the NSA are doing is no different than what the Checka (which later became the NKVD and finally the KGB) and the Gestapo did. That's what all of this is really about. Crushing any opposition to a one party state which is what fascist liberals are trying to create. You support that. I don't.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Herman Cain says U.S. headed ‘towards socialism and towards communism’

Supposedly somehow in fantasy land amongst the right we are turning into a "socialist" country, then apparently we are going to become a stateless, classless society... This people are ****ing insane. :screwy[/FONT][/COLOR]
Click to expand...

I have to be honest and say its hard to take such charges seriously coming from a highly partisan commentator who's current career is to relentlessly bash the current administration. I can't see how the conservative pundits keep their credibility while keeping the right-wing base on the verge of a meltdown so they'll stayed glued to the various conservative media outlets for the sake of ratings but its their chosen profession. I'm sorry, I supported Cain in the 2012 GOP Primary before I didn't :lamo but I think all this is designed to scare the crap out of old men, to keep them glued to the radio.

If you want to get me to believe a charge like that I'd need to hear Alan Greenspan and other top economists from all political persuasions get before an emergency session of Congress to warn America of a disastrous paradigm shift that is placing the United States on the path to a Soviet Union style economy. Telling banks they can't authorize over the the limit debit card transactions so they can trigger a bunch of bounced checks every several years on their account holders without their prior approval (how banks use to make their profits on "free checking accounts" until Obama got elected) isn't communism. Loaning the auto makers money to stop a shutdown of the US auto industry that they're paying back or have already paid back with interest isn't communism any more the the SBA loaning money to new small businesses also being repaid with interest unless every POTUS from Eisenhower to Obama was a communist including Kennedy, Reagan, HW Bush, Clinton and W Bush. Although I think it needs tweaking, national healthcare isn't communism unless The UK, Germany and Canada are communist states and Bill Clinton, Mitt Romney and the Heritage Foundation are commies.
 
ReformCollege said:
You still listen to that guy? The same nutcase that said that Pol Pot, the regime responsible for the genocide of between 1.4-2.2M people, was "comparable to France after liberation [from the Nazi's]? Then later claimed that the genocide death toll was inflated by a factor of a thousand? If you want to talk about listening to nutcases living in a fantasy land, you need to only look in the mirror.
Click to expand...

:neutral: Already proved you wrong on that Pol Pot comment. Carry on...
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom