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In 84-15 vote, Senate moves forward on immigration reform

Jack Fabulous said:
Just out of curiosity, what does the Mexican government consider "middle class"? Does a "middle class" Mexican live the same life style as a "middle class" American?
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No, my understanding is that their standard for "middle class" (which I'm using loosely anyway) is much lower than what we mean -- though what we mean is also ambiguous. Most people in this country -- even very poor and very rich people -- classify themselves as middle class.

The point is, the days when millions of Mexicans risked death and injury coming to America to find work are over. It's not that there still won't be illegals looking for work; it's just that the number of people in Mexico who feel the need to do that has diminished significantly and is getting smaller. I hate to admit it, but NAFTA worked.
 
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azgreg said:
Now see, this was a solid post that made your point without being all snarky. Why cant you contribute like this more often?
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Why don't you contribute like this ever?
 
head of joaquin said:
The xenophobia and immigration bashing of conservatives just never lets up. Another reason they are going extinct.
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The America we once knew is already headed down the road of extinction because of politically correct immigration policies that where it's what's best for the immigrant instead of what's best for America.

Remember that it was liberal political correct immigration policies that allowed all of the 9/11 Al Qaeda terrorist to be issued visas to enter America. The 9/11 Commission Report pointed out that it was liberal political correctness that allowed the terrorist to board those four planes on the morning of 9-11-01.

As one high ranking Department of Homeland Security pointed out, it was liberal political correct policies that allowed the Tsarnaev family (Boston Marathon bombers) to be granted an refuge visa and to come to America and suck off $1000,000 of welfare from the 53 % of Americans who actually do pay individual income taxes.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: [/FONT][/COLOR][/B]In 84-15 vote, Senate moves forward on immigration reform - The Hill - covering Congress, Politics, Political Campaigns and Capitol Hill | TheHill.com

I hope this bill moves past the debate process and passes onto the house. Its not perfect but its a step forward in dealing with our seriously flawed immigration policies that we have today.
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I'd rather they pass bills limiting the ****ing spying the government has been perpetuating against the People for some time.
 
the House Republicans will do their best to kill it I suspect ... we'll see ...
 
head of joaquin said:
Democrats don't want it for different reasons (namely they think it's discriminatory against Hispanic Americans and that "Americans don't want that kind of work"). They're wrong, I think, but at least that's an honest argument.

The Republican argument is dishonest. They really don't want to stop illegal immigration, since it's used by big industries to suppress wages. They just pretend to be against it and do silly things like build fences, as if that can keep people out looking for a better life. Never has, never will. The GOP is counting on illegals getting in so they can be exploited. The rest is just false rhetoric.
In any case, e-verify is a good policy that honest politicians should support. If they want to change immigration laws, that's another matter. But the hiring of illegals to exploit them and suppress wages for American workers is simply bad news for everybody, but the wealthy industries that profit from it.
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I don't know what the hell you're talking about, because I don't support exploitation, and neither does anyone I know. You need to get off the blanket labeling binge you've been on around here blaming the Tea Party and Republicans for everything. You need to look at your own side where there are lots of problems.
 
windowdressing said:
the House Republicans will do their best to kill it I suspect ... we'll see ...
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They have a lot of support from farmers who make a lot of money by exploiting illegal laborers.

They need to keep them illegal and will spend a lot of money to keep the status quo.
 
head of joaquin said:
No, my understanding is that their standard for "middle class" (which I'm using loosely anyway) is much lower than what we mean -- though what we mean is also ambiguous. Most people in this country -- even very poor and very rich people -- classify themselves as middle class.

The point is, the days when millions of Mexicans risked death and injury coming to America to find work are over. It's not that there still won't be illegals looking for work; it's just that the number of people in Mexico who feel the need to do that has diminished significantly and is getting smaller. I hate to admit it, but NAFTA worked.
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Thanks for the straight forward dialog. Not everything in this world has to have a party line spin put on it.;)

I've been kind of wondering out loud for years about the "poverty rate" in the U.S. Seems to me that "the poor" here really don't seem all that poor when compared to "the poor" in other places...
 
American said:
I don't know what the hell you're talking about, because I don't support exploitation, and neither does anyone I know. You need to get off the blanket labeling binge you've been on around here blaming the Tea Party and Republicans for everything. You need to look at your own side where there are lots of problems.
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Don't worry about him. He'll be banned again soon enough.
 
Question: WHY does AMERICA have such a problem enforcing its own laws?

Last I checked it was ILLEGAL to hire "undocumented aliens"

Lets get real here people, if we can not enforce the laws we already have
WHY are we writing MORE?
 
Berlin Wall West
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LOL!

the berlin wall was built to keep people IN

Chuck Schumer is predicting the Senate will overwhelmingly pass comprehensive immigration reform before July 4. Marco Rubio says the bill doesn’t even have the 60 votes it needs to pass.

And as of today, Rubio’s right.

Granted, the Senate overwhelmingly voted Tuesday to begin debating the Gang of Eight’s immigration overhaul – 84-15. But that was expected, and it’s just the start. There is nowhere near as much agreement on the reform bill itself.

Sen. Schumer’s rosy predictions assume that all the hurdles will work themselves out over the next few weeks of debate—and that’s a big bet, given the magnitude of the divide that has emerged not only between Democrats and Republicans, but inside the gang as well, particularly on border control.

Senate Democratic Majority Leader Harry Reid hesitated Tuesday to talk numbers—a clear sign that Democrats know they don’t have the votes. “I want to have a bill that adheres to our principles and gets as many votes as we can. I’m not going to be talking about specific numbers,” Reid said.

The biggest issue splitting the parties right now is how best to secure the border, and the fight is getting nasty, quick. Other potential land mines include how the Senate decides what tax, health care, and other benefits immigrants may enjoy.
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Rubio's Right. The Gang Is Far From a Supermajority on Immigration - NationalJournal.com

other hang ups include back taxes, legalization and citizenship, gay partners (leaky patrick leahy), and leaving so much interpretation of the 1000 unread pages to janet big sis napolitano (who is an idiot) at dhs

on each particular, polls are two to one in favor of the xenophobes, as you can imagine

New State Polls: Voters Overwhelmingly Oppose Amnesty

pass this bill and you will see a tide beating backlash, indies and republicans will go tea in troves

reid calls cornyn's trigger a poison pill, schumer wants to soften it, durbin and reid won't let him (yet)

Senate Democrats divided on immigration - Manu Raju and John Bresnahan - POLITICO.com

because "republicans are beginning to condition their support for the whole immigration package on democrats’ agreement to include cornyn’s amendment"

yesterday border security went down (for now)

Senate rejects border security plan - Seung Min Kim and Burgess Everett - POLITICO.com

there are quite a few dems who are significantly to the right of, say, susan collins, on immigration reform, for the above and other reasons---hagan, pryor, manchin, baucus, tester, landrieu, donnelly...

Immigration Reform 2013: 7 Senate Democrats Who May Vote Against The Bill : Immigration : Latin Times

politico: "without cornyn's proposal---or another republican-friendly border-security alternative---added to the bill, reid and schumer will fail to get 60, much less 70"

and if anything does materially matriculate immigration-wise, the way things stand marco rubio will get probably more credit than even our most transparent president in the history of all earthlings

Sens. Flake, Bennet urge Obama to stay on sidelines on immigration - UPI.com

si se puede, progresistas
 
APACHERAT said:
The America we once knew is already headed down the road of extinction because of politically correct immigration policies that where it's what's best for the immigrant instead of what's best for America.

Remember that it was liberal political correct immigration policies that allowed all of the 9/11 Al Qaeda terrorist to be issued visas to enter America. The 9/11 Commission Report pointed out that it was liberal political correctness that allowed the terrorist to board those four planes on the morning of 9-11-01.

As one high ranking Department of Homeland Security pointed out, it was liberal political correct policies that allowed the Tsarnaev family (Boston Marathon bombers) to be granted an refuge visa and to come to America and suck off $1000,000 of welfare from the 53 % of Americans who actually do pay individual income taxes.
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Yes, yes, those awful brown people are going to destroy this country with their hard work and superior cuisine.

Don't you ever get tired of being afraid.
 
American said:
I don't know what the hell you're talking about, because I don't support exploitation, and neither does anyone I know. You need to get off the blanket labeling binge you've been on around here blaming the Tea Party and Republicans for everything. You need to look at your own side where there are lots of problems.
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Say it louder and maybe somebody will think this actually rebuts the facts I posted.

Most illegals work in big industries (and they work hard) and big industries exploit them. Hell, they can violate all the worker protection laws and get away with it, since illegal immigrants can't complain. Statistic indicate that employers of illegal immigrants frequently fire them and don't pay the wages due them, as just an example. They also simply violate overtime and MW rules.

Not only that, they can suppress the wages of American workers by tapping a work force of people who think subminimum wage is decent pay. A perfect conservative work world.

And what has the GOP done about it: thrown those CEOs in jail? No, they built fences and attacked the immigrants, not the companies that exploited them.

Now, give us some more of your discredited rightwing memes.
 
Not only that, they can suppress the wages of American workers by tapping a work force of people who think subminimum wage is decent pay. A perfect conservative work world.
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LOL!

and what happens to those suppressed wages when 10 and more million of our hard working neighbors and friends who happen to be here illegally are suddenly brought out of those dark shadows to flood the market?

a perfect liberal world?
 
head of joaquin said:
Yes, yes, those awful brown people are going to destroy this country with their hard work and superior cuisine.

Don't you ever get tired of being afraid.
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My post you responded to had more to do with liberal political correct policies on how the State Department issues student visas, tourist visas and refugee visas.

But I digress, you want to talk about "brown people."

Those "hard working brown people"? You also noticed how those "brown people" can take a simple task such as cleaning a toilet or cutting a lawn and turn it in to hard work. For over 200 years nobody been able to figure it out.

I have no idea who's "superior cuisine" your referring too ? But any food that requires a lot of spices including jalapenos to mask the taste so you can get it down your esophagus isn't a cuisine. If it were, we wouldn't have needed to carry a bottle of Tabasco sauce in Vietnam when we had to eat C-Rats out in the bush.
 
head of joaquin said:
Say it louder and maybe somebody will think this actually rebuts the facts I posted.

Most illegals work in big industries (and they work hard) and big industries exploit them. Hell, they can violate all the worker protection laws and get away with it, since illegal immigrants can't complain. Statistic indicate that employers of illegal immigrants frequently fire them and don't pay the wages due them, as just an example. They also simply violate overtime and MW rules.

Not only that, they can suppress the wages of American workers by tapping a work force of people who think subminimum wage is decent pay. A perfect conservative work world.

And what has the GOP done about it: thrown those CEOs in jail? No, they built fences and attacked the immigrants, not the companies that exploited them.

Now, give us some more of your discredited rightwing memes.
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What are those big industries?
 
today

The fear of some bill proponents: the longer the Cornyn plan hangs out there, the more likely it will become a magnet for Republicans — and accepting anything short of it will be considered a sacrifice. If that happens, then the Gang of Eight won’t be able to get the large bipartisan majority that its leaders, including McCain and Sen. Chuck Schumer (D-N.Y.), are seeking.

The border security showdown is the first major challenge to the Senate’s bipartisan immigration overhaul since it hit the floor this week, dividing the GOP and testing the ability of the Gang of Eight to negotiate a solution that picks up key Republicans without alienating Democrats.

But with no Gang-sanctioned alternative yet, a number of Republicans — including some viewed as swing votes — are gravitating toward the Cornyn plan. It would block undocumented immigrants from gaining green cards until the government meets certain border security metrics, which Democrats view as so subjective that they may never be reached.

There is grumbling among some Democrats that they’re in this bind because Rubio — a key Gang member — made border security an issue by saying it needed to be tightened in order to get 60 Senate votes. Then, the Florida Republican embraced the Cornyn plan when it was announced last week. And on Sean Hannity’s radio show Wednesday, Rubio described it as “an excellent place to start in terms of having that conversation.”
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Gang of Eight seeks alternative to John Cornyn amendment - Carrie Budoff Brown and Seung Min Kim - POLITICO.com
 
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