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IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

And then they wont be able to pay it either and have to file bankruptcy too. I know how that works.
roughdraft274 said:
My gut is that he'll either file bankruptcy or just not pay it. I doubt the hospital would try to garnish wages in that amount. It'll get passed on to other people that actually have insurance or that actually pay their bills.
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j-mac said:
No, I didn't say that, but I am looking at this from my point of view. Based on the story, regulation is setting the cost of the lowest coverage at $20K per year.

My company has expressed concerns that they may not be able to continue our coverage.

My wife takes medication now that on its own one prescription would cost me roughly $1200. per month, but I can't afford to by my own plan at @$1200. per month either....

So, while Obama preached that he was for the middle class like me, I am getting the shaft more than anyone.....You supporters think that is fair?
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Well all we really have is California as a test case because they have been one of the first states to start setting up exchanges.

Here's their information...a payment calculator Health Insurance Calculator | Covered California? on your expenses out of pocket (it's for the Silver Plan as opposed to Bronze)

Here's what the plans cover
http://www.coveredca.com/PDFs/English/CoveredCA-HealthPlanBenefitsComparisonChart.pdf

Luckily California is going first and are a great test subject for what Obamacare will look like.

This of course is assuming you get dropped.

Edit: Keep in mind this is just the beginning and estimates are that prices will drop as they compete on the exchanges for millions of individuals.
 
iliveonramen said:
Well all we really have is California as a test case because they have been one of the first states to start setting up exchanges.

Here's their information...a payment calculator Health Insurance Calculator | Covered California? on your expenses out of pocket (it's for the Silver Plan as opposed to Bronze)

Here's what the plans cover
http://www.coveredca.com/PDFs/English/CoveredCA-HealthPlanBenefitsComparisonChart.pdf

Luckily California is going first and are a great test subject for what Obamacare will look like.

This of course is assuming you get dropped.

Edit: Keep in mind this is just the beginning and estimates are that prices will drop as they compete on the exchanges for millions of individuals.
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Well, thanks for that, I hadn't seen anything like that yet...From what it looks like my cost would be $578 per month for less coverage than I have now, and my monthly out of pocket would rise by nearly double what I pay now. Plus the deductible is double what I have now, plus the prescription plan is vague as to what that deductible is, or what the co pay would be....Although the "Gold plan" looks closer to what I have now, I am assuming it would be even more expensive....I can't afford that.

So, tell me, how is this bending my cost curve down? How is this going to, as Obama promised, going to "save the average family of four, $2500. per year"....?????

That was a lie, No?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Moved to appropriate forum
 
PeteEU said:
Yes, and in Spain they have actually started to educate the population on costs... healthcare is free (well pretty much) but you get a bill when you are in hospital. That way people get to see how much it actually costs and frankly it is a good idea.
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When military members use Tricare, particularly going to an outside hospital, we get a bill too that is basically just an informational bill (covered by Tricare completely). I got one when I had an allergic reaction to shrimp and had to go to a civilian hospital in downtown Seattle. It was thousands of dollars for them to drive me to the hospital, give me a couple of shots of benadryl and epinephrine and observe me for about 2 hours then tell me I had an allergic reaction and send me home.
 
roguenuke said:
When military members use Tricare, particularly going to an outside hospital, we get a bill too that is basically just an informational bill (covered by Tricare completely). I got one when I had an allergic reaction to shrimp and had to go to a civilian hospital in downtown Seattle. It was thousands of dollars for them to drive me to the hospital, give me a couple of shots of benadryl and epinephrine and observe me for about 2 hours then tell me I had an allergic reaction and send me home.
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There was a story a few years ago in Denmark, where it came out that the danish travel insurance giant paid for an ambulance airplane ride for a guy who had broken his leg or arm.. a ride from New York to Copenhagen and then straight to the local hospital for a treatment. Why for a simple broken bone? Because it was considerably cheaper to do it this way.
 
j-mac said:
CNS is a news outlet that is credentialed, and represented in the WH press pool.
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No offence but so was a GOP gay male prostitute under the Bush administration.
 
PeteEU said:
No offence but so was a GOP gay male prostitute under the Bush administration.
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:roll: Oh please....The objections of the source is a fallacy....

"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument.[2] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy,[3][4][5] more precisely an irrelevance.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Attacking the source is irrelevant, therefore, you should stick to the argument at hand...Can you?
 
j-mac said:
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.
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And the conclusion is obvious. Eliminate your family. That's called bending the cost curve down, right there. Makes me wonder why Obama didn't just suggest that right from the start.
 
j-mac said:
:roll: Oh please....The objections of the source is a fallacy....

"An ad hominem (Latin for "to the man" or "to the person"[1]), short for argumentum ad hominem, is an argument made personally against an opponent instead of against their argument.[2] Ad hominem reasoning is normally described as an informal fallacy,[3][4][5] more precisely an irrelevance.[6]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem

Attacking the source is irrelevant, therefore, you should stick to the argument at hand...Can you?
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Hey I dont know the source so I cant comment.. all I am saying that having a WH press pass is not a badge of legitimacy of any kind. Only means you have a clean record or have friends in high places that ignore your record or actively hide it for you.
 
PeteEU said:
Hey I dont know the source so I cant comment.. all I am saying that having a WH press pass is not a badge of legitimacy of any kind. Only means you have a clean record or have friends in high places that ignore your record or actively hide it for you.
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Way to show that you have a problem with any source you don't approve of...Too bad for you, that you don't control the message isn't it?....Now, can you question any of the facts in the article, or are you just here to deflect, and pad the post count?
 
j-mac said:
Well, thanks for that, I hadn't seen anything like that yet...From what it looks like my cost would be $578 per month for less coverage than I have now, and my monthly out of pocket would rise by nearly double what I pay now. Plus the deductible is double what I have now, plus the prescription plan is vague as to what that deductible is, or what the co pay would be....Although the "Gold plan" looks closer to what I have now, I am assuming it would be even more expensive....I can't afford that.

So, tell me, how is this bending my cost curve down? How is this going to, as Obama promised, going to "save the average family of four, $2500. per year"....?????

That was a lie, No?
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I would honestly ask your employer why they are dropping you.
Most employers to keep sponsoring health plans: survey | Modern Healthcare
They may be using Obamacare as an excuse not to give you insurance. Unless they provide insurance that doesn't even meet the baselines that's offered in the exchanges there should be no change.

They are literally deciding to pay a 2,000 dollar penalty in order to not give you insurance.

As mentioned in the article if they drop you they will have to pay a penalty and would most likely have to offer higher gross salaries in order to compete with other companies hiring employees and providing benefits.
 
iliveonramen said:
I would honestly ask your employer why they are dropping you.
Most employers to keep sponsoring health plans: survey | Modern Healthcare
They may be using Obamacare as an excuse not to give you insurance. Unless they provide insurance that doesn't even meet the baselines that's offered in the exchanges there should be no change.

They are literally deciding to pay a 2,000 dollar penalty in order to not give you insurance.

As mentioned in the article if they drop you they will have to pay a penalty and would most likely have to offer higher gross salaries in order to compete with other companies hiring employees and providing benefits.
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I understand that, but tell me, wouldn't it be a wise business move to say pay a $2000 fine, instead of a $12000 premium?

Next, will the employer be mandated by law to provide a higher salary? I'd like to see that.

Now, you can say well they won't keep the good employees they have, but in the new landscape, who cares? With so many unemployed out there, they can run a revolving door and make more money...All this I suspect was the plan anyway.
 
j-mac said:
I understand that, but tell me, wouldn't it be a wise business move to say pay a $2000 fine, instead of a $12000 premium?

Next, will the employer be mandated by law to provide a higher salary? I'd like to see that.

Now, you can say well they won't keep the good employees they have, but in the new landscape, who cares? With so many unemployed out there, they can run a revolving door and make more money...All this I suspect was the plan anyway.
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A lot of companies are opting to keep their insurance plans. The survey I've provided has shown that only 6% are opting to drop their employees.

They won't be mandated by law to provide a higher salary....but I'm not sure how they will compete asking their employees to shell out X amount of dollars to enter an exchange and expect to pay the same as another employer that is offering insurance.
McDonald's Plays Politics, Brags About Selling Its McWorkers Appalling Health Coverage - Forbes
The only companies that are dropping insurance because of Obamacare are companies like this.

Otherwise they are making a choice not to cover their employees...and if it becomes to big of an issue the government could always rachet up the penalty.

As for the comment regarding the current employment landscape, that exists anyway. Why exactly would companies offer insurance in the first place? As of now they can provide employers horrible insurance or no insurance. The fact that there's an option for individuals that do not currently get insurance is used as an excuse to drop people? So the only way our insurance system works is if 10's of millions of indivdual's are not able to get insurance? That's a pretty broken system.
 
j-mac said:
Way to show that you have a problem with any source you don't approve of...Too bad for you, that you don't control the message isn't it?
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As I stated I dont know the source and have not looked up their history, so I have not commented about it.

What I did comment about was your linkage between getting a White House Press Pass and credibility. That is false...the Jeff Gannon case proves that.

....Now, can you question any of the facts in the article, or are you just here to deflect, and pad the post count?
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Err I have already commented about it quite a lot and saying it is the fault of the private sector in conjunction with their politician puppets. It is you that has dismissed this view because it goes against you belief in the American system, but it is time you get into reality and not blame the black guy in the White House for every bad thing happening in the US and place the blame with who deserves it.
 
j-mac said:
I understand that, but tell me, wouldn't it be a wise business move to say pay a $2000 fine, instead of a $12000 premium?
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I agree... but all it takes is some kid of an employee getting seriously ill and dying for the PR to become so massively bad for the company that the bean counters will say the 12k is a good deal.. especially if there is a threat of a lawsuit or massive fines from the feds.

Remember the exploding gas tanks in the 1970s/80s? Where GM admitted that the bean counters had said it was cheaper to not fix the problem and just pay for the law suits?
 
PeteEU said:
As I stated I dont know the source and have not looked up their history, so I have not commented about it.

What I did comment about was your linkage between getting a White House Press Pass and credibility. That is false...the Jeff Gannon case proves that.
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So, the source is not liberal leaning so it must be like Jeff Gannon? What ever dude....:roll:

Err I have already commented about it quite a lot and saying it is the fault of the private sector in conjunction with their politician puppets.
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The private sector may not be perfect, but its preferable to a top down centralized system IMHO.

It is you that has dismissed this view because it goes against you belief in the American system, but it is time you get into reality and not blame the black guy in the White House for every bad thing happening in the US and place the blame with who deserves it.
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:lamo So, since I don't believe in a centralized, quasi socialist system, and happen to think that free markets are the way to go, that makes me racist eh? Good grief, you really are a characature of liberal go to's aren't you....:lamo
 
We had great insurance prior to Obamacare, now we are switching the High or Low plans to the Bronze, Silver, and Gold with many hurdles to jump over. I wish Obama and family had to go through this crap. He is the worst ****ing leader in my lifetime.
 
Rocketman said:
I wish Obama and family had to go through this crap.
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A worthy point. If Obamacare is so awesome, why did the President and Congress write themselves out of it.
 
cpwill said:
A worthy point. If Obamacare is so awesome, why did the President and Congress write themselves out of it.
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Yeah while giving every large union a waiver
 
j-mac said:
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.
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I'm not sure I understand the point. Maybe someone has already mentioned this, but it looks like someone has just pulled a number out of a hat because it makes demonstrating a calculation easier. Math professors do that sort of thing all the time.
 
Rocketman said:
Yeah while giving every large union a waiver
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which is also odd. Since Obamacare is so wonderful, why are all these unions seeking waivers?
 
Lutherf said:
This has been going around for a while now. The $20k figure comes from an example the IRS uses in one of their publications. At this point I'm not even sure anybody knows what a "Bronze Level" plan will have to consist of.

That being said, we do know what the penalties are going to be and I'll pretty much guarantee you that for someone single, in good health and with no kids it will be a whole lot cheaper to pay the fine.
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Cheaper unless they need medical attention. Then it's not. Generally it's good to be insured and generally, people will buy insurance if its affordable. AHCA it taking it in that direction. Witness the lies the OP has to say about it in order to muddy the waters.

What's hilarious is how conservatives just don't want people to have health care insurance. It's almost a pathological fetish -- like so many conservatives have.
 
cpwill said:
which is also odd. Since Obamacare is so wonderful, why are all these unions seeking waivers?
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it was a scheme from the begininng
 
cpwill said:
which is also odd. Since Obamacare is so wonderful, why are all these unions seeking waivers?
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To avoid looking totally clueless, one should do a bit of research before posting adamant claims: http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-dont-have-comply-obamacare-says-crossroads-/
. . . counting all the joint plans as union plans, only 25 percent of the waivers have gone to unions. The rest have gone to plans offered by employers, insurance companies and other non-union groups.

To be clear, though, the waivers do not exempt these groups from the health care law. They only allow them to continue offering their current health plans with annual limits until 2014.
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