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IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

CaptinSarcastic said:
The health insurance companies will be required to have the plans and costs online in October, let's discuss it then. This number is simply a very rough estimate of what a family of five might pay in 2016 if they make over $120k and do NOT have employer insurance but must or choose to buy in the exchange market. I will be in that group, though I only have a family of four, and the fact is that without Obamacare, neither my wife or I could get insurance at all, but the best quote I can get for individual family coverage is over $17000 a year for a family of four, so three years out, and one less person, that seems like the cost curve is bending in the right way. The costs are still ridiculous and will continue to be until we get a single payer plan, insurance is socialism, it is sharing the risk, and the bigger the group that shares, the lower the individual risk. Until we figure that out as a society, those of us that are not on employer plans or Medicare or Medicaid or VA, will be hammered. But hey, if you got yours, why think about fixing it for anyone else, it's not like you could EVER be in their position.
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Two thirds of those currently uninsured don't plan to buy health insurance under Obamacare.

Your bleeding heart doesn't fix the fact that a large number of the people this program was aimed to save are not particularly good planners, and many just don't see the financial upside to buying insurance now any more than they did before. If they wait long enough they can just catch the next wave where they get "free" health care when idiotic liberals search for the next cause célèbre ... which will again be "uninsured Americans".
 
PeteEU said:
Well sue your company then... aint that the American way?

Oh and it aint Obama's fault that the healthcare industry is jacking up prices... or do you really think that one asprin should cost 3 bucks in the hospital?
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Wait, what? Sue them? For what? Employer benefits are not mandated by law....And no, an asprin shouldn't cost $3, but I guess when you have people using medical services and just not paying for them that's what happens right? But, why should the cure to that be to make me pay for them?
 
Real studies comparing hospitals in GB and Canada with US most waiting times were very compareable if you just look at the insured in US. if all citizens in US are taken into consideration the US wait times is far longer.
PeteEU said:
Ahh word games. And I have never waited 8 hours in Spain at any doctor. I get a time, show up and get in pretty much instantly... in fact they are quite efficient here since it is all computerized now days.

And there are also waiting times in the US... and some places massive ones at that. I saw a statistic a few years ago that the waiting time for mamograms in New York was many months...
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jmotivator said:
Two thirds of those currently uninsured don't plan to buy health insurance under Obamacare.

Your bleeding heart doesn't fix the fact that a large number of the people this program was aimed to save are not particularly good planners, and many just don't see the financial upside to buying insurance now any more than they did before. If they wait long enough they can just catch the next wave where they get "free" health care when idiotic liberals search for the next cause célèbre ... which will again be "uninsured Americans".
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That's true...it's very idiotic to try and change a medical care system that leaves 10's of millions uninsured yet still equals a much higher % of GDP compared to other countries with universal care. I mean...only idiotic people ask why we pay 90 bucks for prescription medicine that cost 40 in England or France.
 
mak2 said:
Real studies by hospitals in GB and Canada most waiting times were very compareable if you just look at the insured in US. if all citizens in US are taken into consideration the US wait times is far longer.
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Gee...I wonder who has the money to spend to create that illusion and the incentive to make people think that getting healthcare in Canada or France is an automatic death sentence.
 
Tell a lie often enough...
iliveonramen said:
Gee...I wonder who has the money to spend to create that illusion and the incentive to make people think that getting healthcare in Canada or France is an automatic death sentence.
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j-mac said:
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.
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It's designed to fail.
 
mak2 said:
We make way too much for the hospital to charge anything off, I think that is where we really got screwed.
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True. I know many people who work cash type construction jobs or make low income who have been in for hospital stays, didn't pay their bills, and barely heard a peep from the hospital or collection agencies.

But that type of insurance is madness. I'm pretty sure it's not legal when Obamacare kicks in.
 
PeteEU said:
1) And what would the cost have been without Obamacare?
2) Cant bend the cost curve when you wont attack the root cause of the problem.
3) Cant bend the cost curve when your laws and regulations (even Obamacare) is written by the freaking for profit healthcare industry.
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This one was written by the Democrats, not the healthcare industry.
 
j-mac said:
Wait, what? Sue them? For what? Employer benefits are not mandated by law....And no, an asprin shouldn't cost $3, but I guess when you have people using medical services and just not paying for them that's what happens right? But, why should the cure to that be to make me pay for them?
Click to expand...

How the hell should I know.. it is your side .. aka the right wing .. aka the GOP that want this idiotic system in the first place and are steadfast in refusing to change it, just because the guy in the White House is a democrat.

I understand your pain but as long as the whole medical industry is in league with the insurance industry and can charge what every they freaking want and get away with it, then you are going to have to adapt...

Hospital Prices No Longer Secret As New Data Reveals Bewildering System, Staggering Cost Differences

Look at the map.

For the same medical help, one place is 7k and another is 99k... for the SAME THING!

The problem is NOT Obamacare but the private unregulated healthcare industry that is running amok and protecting their base by getting Congress to pass things like Obamacare or whatever the GOP (very similar to Obamacare I bet) could have dreamed up.
 
PeteEU said:
Ahh word games. And I have never waited 8 hours in Spain at any doctor. I get a time, show up and get in pretty much instantly... in fact they are quite efficient here since it is all computerized now days.
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And how close to the time you call is the time you are told to arrive?


And there are also waiting times in the US... and some places massive ones at that. I saw a statistic a few years ago that the waiting time for mamograms in New York was many months...
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I'd like to see the data on that, because in over half of all counties studied in the US the wait was less than a week, and in only 11% of cases were the waits greater than 1 month. So your 1 year would be a severe outlier.

Also, if the wait times are longer in the liberal bastions of NYC it's really no surprise. Taxes in NYC make it very hard to open and keep a business, and I can only assume their red tape is boundless for opening a medical facility.
 
mak2 said:
Real studies comparing hospitals in GB and Canada with US most waiting times were very compareable if you just look at the insured in US. if all citizens in US are taken into consideration the US wait times is far longer.
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would not surprise me one bit, since uninsured are taken (in non critical cases) to certain hospitals right? Plus the amount of people in the US has gone up but the amount of hospitals, nurses and emergency rooms has gone down the last 30 years... go figure that there will be waiting times then.
 
apdst said:
It's designed to fail.
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Absolutely. And we have been saying that since the beginning...Remarkably the liberal progressive defenders of this plan have been laughing at that assertion, until recently that is....Captin Sarcastic highlights it outright in his post....

CaptainSarcastic said:
...The costs are still ridiculous and will continue to be until we get a single payer plan, insurance is socialism, it is sharing the risk, and the bigger the group that shares, the lower the individual risk. Until we figure that out as a society, those of us that are not on employer plans or Medicare or Medicaid or VA, will be hammered.
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The truth only is admitted when the inevitable is imminent....
 
This system is so far past the point of being fixable if it ever was. It is perfectly designed for profit and functioned very well for that for many many years. What is sad is it is such a battle to get an efficient system that will spend less for better.
PeteEU said:
How the hell should I know.. it is your side .. aka the right wing .. aka the GOP that want this idiotic system in the first place and are steadfast in refusing to change it, just because the guy in the White House is a democrat.

I understand your pain but as long as the whole medical industry is in league with the insurance industry and can charge what every they freaking want and get away with it, then you are going to have to adapt...

Hospital Prices No Longer Secret As New Data Reveals Bewildering System, Staggering Cost Differences

Look at the map.

For the same medical help, one place is 7k and another is 99k... for the SAME THING!

The problem is NOT Obamacare but the private unregulated healthcare industry that is running amok and protecting their base by getting Congress to pass things like Obamacare or whatever the GOP (very similar to Obamacare I bet) could have dreamed up.
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jmotivator said:
And how close to the time you call is the time you are told to arrive?
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Nothing like that. They set a time and you turn up. Sometimes you have to wait a bit because they are running late, and other times if you get their early and they happen to have time left over then you get in early.

The worst waiting time I have ever had is when they take their stupid coffee break :) That is about 15 minutes.



I'd like to see the data on that, because in over half of all counties studied in the US the wait was less than a week, and in only 11% of cases were the waits greater than 1 month. So your 1 year would be a severe outlier.

Also, if the wait times are longer in the liberal bastions of NYC it's really no surprise. Taxes in NYC make it very hard to open and keep a business, and I can only assume their red tape is boundless for opening a medical facility.
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bla bla yea liberal bastion bla bla.

http://health.usnews.com/health-new.../health-buzz-long-mammogram-wait-times-in-nyc
 
I said it 3 years ago...I'll say it again. The passage of Obamacare (come on...lets be fair...it was Pelosicare) was not designed to 'fix' anything. It IS designed as a means of backdooring into universal healthcare and that will be in place by 2016. After this is implemented things will become so skewed and expensive the fed will announce they just cant maintain seperate insurances, medicare, medicaid, military hospitals, and social security medical benefits and the only way to REALLY fix it will be to do away with it all and offer universal healthcare. Sure...taxes will be jacked up...but thats not really a concern for politicians. The dems will still get support from their voter base. People will still be able to private insure if they choose, but they will still have to pay the taxes for Universal healthcare, so very few will bother with private healthcare and those that could afford to will just pay cash to private doctors.
 
South Portland doctor stops accepting insurance, posts prices online — Portland — Bangor Daily News — BDN Maine

Dr. Michael Ciampi took a step this spring that many of his fellow physicians would describe as radical.

The family physician stopped accepting all forms of health insurance. In early 2013, Ciampi sent a letter to his patients informing them that he would no longer accept any kind of health coverage, both private and government-sponsored. Given that he was now asking patients to pay for his services out of pocket, he posted his prices on the practice’s website.

The change took effect April 1.
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Should be interesting to see if his no-insurance accepted policy turns out to be a big money maker.
 
I just dont understand why the hell we cant get universal healthcare in the front door.
VanceMack said:
I said it 3 years ago...I'll say it again. The passage of Obamacare (come on...lets be fair...it was Pelosicare) was not designed to 'fix' anything. It IS designed as a means of backdooring into universal healthcare and that will be in place by 2016. After this is implemented things will become so skewed and expensive the fed will announce they just cant maintain seperate insurances, medicare, medicaid, military hospitals, and social security medical benefits and the only way to REALLY fix it will be to do away with it all and offer universal healthcare. Sure...taxes will be jacked up...but thats not really a concern for politicians. The dems will still get support from their voter base. People will still be able to private insure if they choose, but they will still have to pay the taxes for Universal healthcare, so very few will bother with private healthcare and those that could afford to will just pay cash to private doctors.
Click to expand...
 
jmotivator said:
Two thirds of those currently uninsured don't plan to buy health insurance under Obamacare.

Your bleeding heart doesn't fix the fact that a large number of the people this program was aimed to save are not particularly good planners, and many just don't see the financial upside to buying insurance now any more than they did before. If they wait long enough they can just catch the next wave where they get "free" health care when idiotic liberals search for the next cause célèbre ... which will again be "uninsured Americans".
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Sometimes it is not a matter of planning. I worked for a large corporation for two decades and then went into business for myself and have to deal with the insurance market in my new circumstances. Should I have stayed with the big company just for insurance? Many people do exactly that, even though the have the knowledge, skill, and resources to be entrepreneurs. How do you think this effects our overall economy?

Single payer is the only real solution because choice is taken out of the equation. If you are American, you will be insured. If you make money, you will pay for it. If you think that removing choice is wrong, I will point out that the choice of whether to pay for the care of others was taken away decades ago under Ronald Reagan with the passage of the Emergency Medical Treatment And Active Labor Act that was basically an unfunded mandate for universal healthcare. America refuses to allow the sick to go without treatment, whether they can or intend to pay for that treatment. Once society made THAT decision, healthcare essentially became a defacto right. If you disagree with this, then you should lobby for the repeal of EMTALA and let people that can pay go without care, but I'll tell you right now, there is no almost support for that.

It is stupid to say that ALL will get care, but we are not going to build a system for all to get care, we'll just say treat them and bury the costs in insurance costs, medical costs, and taxes. We spend an estimated $50 billion a year on EMTALA costs, why not just build it into the system and have health insurance for all. Extend Medicare to age 0, and watch the individual costs go down as we stop socializing the highest risk Americans (those over 65) and privatizing the lowest risk Americans.

My heart doesn't bleed, but my head is exploding at the stupidity.
 
PeteEU said:
How the hell should I know.. it is your side .. aka the right wing .. aka the GOP that want this idiotic system in the first place and are steadfast in refusing to change it, just because the guy in the White House is a democrat.

I understand your pain but as long as the whole medical industry is in league with the insurance industry and can charge what every they freaking want and get away with it, then you are going to have to adapt...

Hospital Prices No Longer Secret As New Data Reveals Bewildering System, Staggering Cost Differences

Look at the map.

For the same medical help, one place is 7k and another is 99k... for the SAME THING!

The problem is NOT Obamacare but the private unregulated healthcare industry that is running amok and protecting their base by getting Congress to pass things like Obamacare or whatever the GOP (very similar to Obamacare I bet) could have dreamed up.
Click to expand...

You are placing 100% of the blame in an area responsible for maybe 20% of the problem, and using that to centralize, and take over the industry against the will of the people....That to me is absurd....I wish for one moment you'd give up your hatred against capitalism and look at this with objective eyes.
 
The free market does not work in healthcare. How much more evidence do you need??
j-mac said:
You are placing 100% of the blame in an area responsible for maybe 20% of the problem, and using that to centralize, and take over the industry against the will of the people....That to me is absurd....I wish for one moment you'd give up your hatred against capitalism and look at this with objective eyes.
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iliveonramen said:
That's true...it's very idiotic to try and change a medical care system that leaves 10's of millions uninsured yet still equals a much higher % of GDP compared to other countries with universal care. I mean...only idiotic people ask why we pay 90 bucks for prescription medicine that cost 40 in England or France.
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Only an idiot destroys a great health care system in order to fix a $90 prescription.

By the way, that too is mostly a myth, because you can pick and choose some medications that are cheaper in other countries and claim an urgent need to take a torch to the medical system, but you ignore so may other medications that are cheaper in the US (and big evil Walmart et al are making most common drugs cheap even without insurance). But then that is the liberal way, making the exception the rule and legislating to it, plowing under everything that worked in the process.

Obamacare is effectively taking a torch to your house to fix a stuck door.
 
I'm late to this thread, so has anybody said, "Told ya so" yet?
 
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