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IRS: Cheapest Obamacare Plan Will Be $20,000 Per Family

The bold is problem number one.. you get your healthcare subsidized by your workplace. The actual cost is far far more than what you pay.. plus the 20k does not state how big a deductible there is (or did I miss that?), and would wager that not only is there a rather large deductible in your insurance but there is also a limit to how much you can use. There are plenty of horror stories where families use up their 50k limit of care in a few weeks for their sick child and have to go into massive debt, and later bankruptcy to pay for the remaining care.



Because of the bold above... your WORK. The true cost is hidden since your work place pays most of it. And that is what is going on here, forcing workplaces to pay healthcare for all their workers.. since you insist on having that stupid system in the first place.

Plus your costs wont go up... since you have healthcare coverage... now should you loose your job, well then you are as screwed as you have always been I guess.



Your whole system is about that.. before Obamacare and after Obamacare. Nothing has really changed, except that people are now realizing how expensive it actually is and a few on why... the system is beyond broken and is totally driven by profit and exploitation.

The recent release of the price database for hospitals never got the coverage it should have thanks to the media handling of the healthcare industry, but the very fact that a surgery can cost 4k one place and 90k a few miles away ... shows that there is a massive problem.

When you have a system, where it is cheaper for a patient to send a relative down to the local drugstore to buy a box of over the counter painkillers, than it is to ask the nurse for one...just ONE pill.. then you know there is a massive problem.

But dont worry, the usual right wingers paid by the GOP will soon hit this thread and blame Obama for everything, while ignoring the fact it is the healthcare system and its political backers... the GOP... that are the root problem.

MaggieD said:
It is very unfortunate that, many years ago, Congress excepted employer-paid premiums from Federal income tax.* In my opinion, had this NOT been done, people would have been clamoring for healthcare reform for years.

J-Mac actually believes his insurance costs $3,600. That's the sad part. He has no IDEA how much his employer is paying to subsidize its cost. One trip to COBRA and he would be educated.

*The employer gets to deduct the subsidized portion of an employee's health insurance as a business expense, so he pays no taxes on it. The employee is given that perk tax-free and has no IDEA how much his employer pays for it. Market forces not at work.

Contrary to both of your beliefs, I am well aware that the portion of premium I pay is far less than what the employer pays for the coverage. In my case, according to the breakdown supplied by my company this past January, due to the fact that the ACA will also make my health care taxable income in coming years, my employer pays about $12,000. plus my contribution of $3,600. for a total yearly expense of $15,600....So, if I assume that this "Bronze" plan is comparable, that is a 25% increase give or take, plus should my employer decide that it is a smarter business move to drop coverage, and kick us to the exchange curb, then I have to shoulder the entire burden.

That's a far cry from all the promises of Obama saying that the average family would see savings of $2,500. per year. It was a lie.
 
Yes, and in Spain they have actually started to educate the population on costs... healthcare is free (well pretty much) but you get a bill when you are in hospital. That way people get to see how much it actually costs and frankly it is a good idea.

It's not free. Why do people always call state health care paid through state taxes "free"? And I bet that the "education" won't work in Spain's "free" system. The only way that a "free" system works is with strictly controlled services delivery. People are far less likely to go to the doctor for a cold if the wait time is 8 hours rather than 20 minutes.
 
Yea. Well, now he can just buy insurance at the door and can't be denied so none of that will be an issue, will it?

When one looks at the primary cause of bankruptcy in America, medical insurance for all does look like it just might help a bit.

Four years old but I doubt things have gotten any better
Medical bills prompt more than 60 percent of U.S. bankruptcies

Bankruptcies due to medical bills increased by nearly 50 percent in a six-year period, from 46 percent in 2001 to 62 percent in 2007, and most of those who filed for bankruptcy were middle-class, well-educated homeowners, according to a report that will be published in the August issue of The American Journal of Medicine.

"Unless you're a Warren Buffett or Bill Gates, you're one illness away from financial ruin in this country," says lead author Steffie Woolhandler, M.D., of the Harvard Medical School, in Cambridge, Mass. "If an illness is long enough and expensive enough, private insurance offers very little protection against medical bankruptcy, and that's the major finding in our study."
 
Contrary to both of your beliefs, I am well aware that the portion of premium I pay is far less than what the employer pays for the coverage. In my case, according to the breakdown supplied by my company this past January, due to the fact that the ACA will also make my health care taxable income in coming years, my employer pays about $12,000. plus my contribution of $3,600. for a total yearly expense of $15,600....So, if I assume that this "Bronze" plan is comparable, that is a 25% increase give or take, plus should my employer decide that it is a smarter business move to drop coverage, and kick us to the exchange curb, then I have to shoulder the entire burden.

That's a far cry from all the promises of Obama saying that the average family would see savings of $2,500. per year. It was a lie.

I think the $20K number was used as an example by the IRS. They weren't saying that, after studying the marketplace, that's what the number would be.

I do agree with you. There is no way the average individual's health insurance premium is going to be lower under Obamacare. Of course, people who've never been subsidized will be subsidized now . . . *shrug*

Edit: Oh! And I'm glad your employer has seen fit to let his employees know what he's paying. That's very important information, in my opinion.
 
It's not free. Why do people always call state health care paid through state taxes "free"? And I bet that the "education" won't work in Spain's "free" system. The only way that a "free" system works is with strictly controlled services delivery. People are far less likely to go to the doctor for a cold if the wait time is 8 hours rather than 20 minutes.


Yeah, I guess that is the reason all of the countries with socialistic healthcare have better life expectancy than the US. :roll:
 
Contrary to both of your beliefs, I am well aware that the portion of premium I pay is far less than what the employer pays for the coverage. In my case, according to the breakdown supplied by my company this past January, due to the fact that the ACA will also make my health care taxable income in coming years, my employer pays about $12,000. plus my contribution of $3,600. for a total yearly expense of $15,600....So, if I assume that this "Bronze" plan is comparable, that is a 25% increase give or take, plus should my employer decide that it is a smarter business move to drop coverage, and kick us to the exchange curb, then I have to shoulder the entire burden.

That's a far cry from all the promises of Obama saying that the average family would see savings of $2,500. per year. It was a lie.



I pay about $13,000 a year between out of pocket and company contribution. For that service I have a $500 deductible and 90% coverage. So Obamacare, in my circumstances, will be (at minimum) $5000 more annually, and require a 40% out of pocket.

Remember, folks, this plan was sold as a way of saving people from bankruptcy. It seems to me that this disaster of a bill has brought me and millions like me far closer to the threat of medical bankruptcy than when the Democrats put their stupid, filthy hands on the National health care system.
 
I think the $20K number was used as an example by the IRS. They weren't saying that, after studying the marketplace, that's what the number would be.

Ok, I can agree with that, the possibility remains that it could be much more....Considering that to date the estimates by CBO and other sources were woefully off, and low.

I do agree with you. There is no way the average individual's health insurance premium is going to be lower under Obamacare. Of course, people who've never been subsidized will be subsidized now . . . *shrug*

This will break the system totally....When what I pay goes from $75. per week for coverage, to $385. per week, I have no choice but to drop it.

Edit: Oh! And I'm glad your employer has seen fit to let his employees know what he's paying. That's very important information, in my opinion.

I believe it was mandated by the government to let people know what their taxes will include in the future.
 
I pay about $13,000 a year between out of pocket and company contribution. For that service I have a $500 deductible and 90% coverage. So Obamacare, in my circumstances, will be (at minimum) $5000 more annually, and require a 40% out of pocket.

Remember, folks, this plan was sold as a way of saving people from bankruptcy. It seems to me that this disaster of a bill has brought me and millions like me far closer to the threat of medical bankruptcy than when the Democrats put their stupid, filthy hands on the National health care system.


Uh ... there is no "National health care system" in America - that's the problem. The AHCA will hopefully help in getting us to single payer- some day.
 
I pay about $13,000 a year between out of pocket and company contribution. For that service I have a $500 deductible and 90% coverage. So Obamacare, in my circumstances, will be (at minimum) $5000 more annually, and require a 40% out of pocket.

Remember, folks, this plan was sold as a way of saving people from bankruptcy. It seems to me that this disaster of a bill has brought me and millions like me far closer to the threat of medical bankruptcy than when the Democrats put their stupid, filthy hands on the National health care system.

I believe it was always meant to fail....thereby ushering in Universal HC......They couldn't get by being straight up, and honest, so what do progressives do when faced with that....They lie, and do it anyway.
 
I pay about $13,000 a year between out of pocket and company contribution. For that service I have a $500 deductible and 90% coverage. So Obamacare, in my circumstances, will be (at minimum) $5000 more annually, and require a 40% out of pocket.

Remember, folks, this plan was sold as a way of saving people from bankruptcy. It seems to me that this disaster of a bill has brought me and millions like me far closer to the threat of medical bankruptcy than when the Democrats put their stupid, filthy hands on the National health care system.

What's going to happen is that more and more people who are already at the lower end of the pay scale are never going to leave that demographic. Between employers reducing the hours of entry level employees to avoid the requirement to provide insurance and subsidies for insurance at lower income levels it's likely that we will see a whole lot of those folks who would normally be in the $45-50k income bracket back off to a lower level where more federal benefits are offered. For someone right out of school it will be a very difficult transition to economic independence.
 
Yeah, I guess that is the reason all of the countries with socialistic healthcare have better life expectancy than the US. :roll:

The difference in life expectancy between the US and other nations is predominantly from the high death rate of young Americans to gang violence and auto accidents. In fact, when you remove unnatural deaths from the record the US life expectancy jumps to #1 in the world. Health care doesn't fix that. In fact, stupid idiotic bureaucrats often point to low life expectancy in poor populations and decide what they REALLY need is diet training, ignoring that they are all shooting one another.

Ironically, the US has the highest survival rate for gunshot wounds as well, because those hospitals in large cities get plenty of practice (ironically in the areas with the strictest gun laws!). But even still, far more people die in the US from gunshot wounds (predominantly gang related) because there are so many of them.

The liberal health care myth is having a catastrophic impact on the US health care system. It is a classic case of bad government planning built on spurious statistics leading to bad legislation.
 
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And he will be getting bills for years. My wife had a major medical event 5 years ago, we have not got a new bill for less than a year. her even was about a million even, give or take. Kinda sucks when you have an 80/20.

Most, at least all health care plans that I've seen (mine included) are 80/20 up to your out of pocket expenses. They do have a cutoff point, at least every plan I've ever seen does.
 
Yeah, I guess that is the reason all of the countries with socialistic healthcare have better life expectancy than the US. :roll:

You sure it isn't because of banning guns?
 
Wow, that sucks....Is he going to be ok?

Seems like he is. After the actual aneurysm and surgery, cerebral fluid and blood was pooled around the base of his brain, and sometimes that can cause the blood vessels that feed your brain to constrict and pretty much cause a stroke. So that's why they had him in the ICU that long. They don't like going in for the fluid because there's such a high chance of doing more harm than good, and eventually the fluid gets absorbed by the body. But as of right now it seems like he's going to be ok. Dr. said that his kind of aneurysm with all the complications, the death rate is probably in the 90% range or higher. So he's lucky.
 
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.

Wait, is the IRS trustworthy or not? I'm confused here.
 
Yea. Well, now he can just buy insurance at the door and can't be denied so none of that will be an issue, will it?

I'm pretty sure he'd have a hard time buying insurance while blacked out in the back of an ambulance or on an operating table.
 
Uh ... there is no "National health care system" in America - that's the problem. The AHCA will hopefully help in getting us to single payer- some day.

Yes there is. Just because you can't see it unless it's run by the government doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 
I'm sure health insurance has risen since my wife and I went on medicare a few years ago but the last time I had coverage for us both, it was around $18,000 per year for a very deluxe policy. We had $500 deductible per year and everything else was paid 100%. I had a $102,000 bypass surgery and didn't pay a nickel for anything since I had already covered my deductible. Certainly it was better coverage than the Obamacare plans. I assume one could buy a non Obamacare policy and not get fined? If so, that could put a dent in Obamacare sales. By the way, I don't believe the insurance companies were involved in writing the Obamacare bill. Neither was anybody in the government.
 
What's going to happen is that more and more people who are already at the lower end of the pay scale are never going to leave that demographic. Between employers reducing the hours of entry level employees to avoid the requirement to provide insurance and subsidies for insurance at lower income levels it's likely that we will see a whole lot of those folks who would normally be in the $45-50k income bracket back off to a lower level where more federal benefits are offered. For someone right out of school it will be a very difficult transition to economic independence.

Spot on Luther....And I believe this is the plan...All that talk of being for the middle classes, all that bluster about lifting the boats of the little guy, well that's just great! So now, the claim that Obama will bring the prosperous down to the level of the poor was right on....
 
What's going to happen is that more and more people who are already at the lower end of the pay scale are never going to leave that demographic. Between employers reducing the hours of entry level employees to avoid the requirement to provide insurance and subsidies for insurance at lower income levels it's likely that we will see a whole lot of those folks who would normally be in the $45-50k income bracket back off to a lower level where more federal benefits are offered. For someone right out of school it will be a very difficult transition to economic independence.

Given the current level of the fine It's probably more fiscally prudent for people earning less than $300k to just pocket the insurance premiums and and buy insurance when they need it. So yeah, this is really just a way to trash the current insurance system to clear the way for government health care.
 
So much for bending the cost curve down eh? Wow! Why would anyone not just pay the tax? Man, what a lie we were forced into with this crap.

The health insurance companies will be required to have the plans and costs online in October, let's discuss it then. This number is simply a very rough estimate of what a family of five might pay in 2016 if they make over $120k and do NOT have employer insurance but must or choose to buy in the exchange market. I will be in that group, though I only have a family of four, and the fact is that without Obamacare, neither my wife or I could get insurance at all, but the best quote I can get for individual family coverage is over $17000 a year for a family of four, so three years out, and one less person, that seems like the cost curve is bending in the right way. The costs are still ridiculous and will continue to be until we get a single payer plan, insurance is socialism, it is sharing the risk, and the bigger the group that shares, the lower the individual risk. Until we figure that out as a society, those of us that are not on employer plans or Medicare or Medicaid or VA, will be hammered. But hey, if you got yours, why think about fixing it for anyone else, it's not like you could EVER be in their position.
 
We probably got close to 100k we have paid out of pocket, I think we were suppose to have paid 46k but if the insurance company and us refused to pay something the billing company just sold it to a collection agency. We disputed and got about half of those charges reversed, but I still think a lot of them were sold to collection agencies anyway. I can see why healthcare is a big cause of bankruptcy. If it was up to me we would have filed, but my wife was against it and I was afraid she woudl kick the bucket anytime, so I didnt. We make way too much for the hospital to charge anything off, I think that is where we really got screwed.
Most, at least all health care plans that I've seen (mine included) are 80/20 up to your out of pocket expenses. They do have a cutoff point, at least every plan I've ever seen does.
 
It's not free. Why do people always call state health care paid through state taxes "free"? And I bet that the "education" won't work in Spain's "free" system. The only way that a "free" system works is with strictly controlled services delivery. People are far less likely to go to the doctor for a cold if the wait time is 8 hours rather than 20 minutes.

Ahh word games. And I have never waited 8 hours in Spain at any doctor. I get a time, show up and get in pretty much instantly... in fact they are quite efficient here since it is all computerized now days.

And there are also waiting times in the US... and some places massive ones at that. I saw a statistic a few years ago that the waiting time for mamograms in New York was many months...
 
Contrary to both of your beliefs, I am well aware that the portion of premium I pay is far less than what the employer pays for the coverage. In my case, according to the breakdown supplied by my company this past January, due to the fact that the ACA will also make my health care taxable income in coming years, my employer pays about $12,000. plus my contribution of $3,600. for a total yearly expense of $15,600....So, if I assume that this "Bronze" plan is comparable, that is a 25% increase give or take, plus should my employer decide that it is a smarter business move to drop coverage, and kick us to the exchange curb, then I have to shoulder the entire burden.

That's a far cry from all the promises of Obama saying that the average family would see savings of $2,500. per year. It was a lie.

Well sue your company then... aint that the American way?

Oh and it aint Obama's fault that the healthcare industry is jacking up prices... or do you really think that one asprin should cost 3 bucks in the hospital?
 
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