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Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220:563]

Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

MaggieD said:
Do they ban couples living together outside of marriage? Those who are having sex outside marriage? Those who lie? Those who cheat? Those who bully? Those who don't come to church every Sunday? Those who drink?

When churches start banning sinners?? They've lost the plot. From their tenets:



I don't see "except if you're gay" in there anywhere. You?
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Again, they're refusing "service" to people openly living in conflict with their beliefs.

I don't know why you're so shocked by this.

It has been going on for, literally, thousands of years.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

RabidAlpaca said:
The boyscouts as an organization don't have any association to homosexuality.
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They do now, Sherlock.

Boys scouts did not previously discriminate against homosexuals, per se, only people who had described themselves as such. Now they have decided to enable "openly" gay people in their lifestyle choice by allowing them in. It's pretty basic logic here. Even someone of your ability should be able to grok it.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

Dapper Andy said:
Again, they're refusing "service" to people openly living in conflict with their beliefs.

I don't know why you're so shocked by this.

It has been going on for, literally, thousands of years.
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What makes churches exempt from The Civil Rights Act? While they don't receive funds from the Federal government, they most certainly enjoy a tax-advantaged status.

A private business can't discriminate in this fashion...why should a church be permitted to do so?



Dr. Chuckles said:
It's a very clear distinction.
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Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

MaggieD said:
What makes churches exempt from The Civil Rights Act? While they don't receive funds from the Federal government, they most certainly enjoy a tax-advantaged status.

A private business can't discriminate in this fashion...why should a church be permitted to do so?
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Because the first amendment exempts them from pretty much most government regulation
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

TheNextEra said:
Again the hatred of the church shows it's true colors.
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You are such a hypocrite. You don't care about the Boy Scouts, you just look for reasons to bash Christianity.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

Fisher said:
Because the first amendment exempts them from pretty much most government regulation
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Well, since they enjoy favored status as 401c organizations, it isn't without precedent that the government weighs in. Churches don't seem to have a problem with that little perk. ;)
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

MaggieD said:
What makes churches exempt from The Civil Rights Act? While they don't receive funds from the Federal government, they most certainly enjoy a tax-advantaged status.

A private business can't discriminate in this fashion...why should a church be permitted to do so?
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Sure they can.

Sexuality isn't a protected class.

Not that it matters anyway. This church is refusing services because the organization violates a central tenant of their faith.
 
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Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

MaggieD said:
Well, since they enjoy favored status as 401c organizations, it isn't without precedent that the government weighs in. Churches don't seem to have a problem with that little perk. ;)
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Not quite the same thing--it is geared to keep the government from "weighing in" to the affairs in the first place indirectly and favoring some over others. Churches are like the "Indian Reservations" when it comes to law.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

vendur said:
They do now, Sherlock.

Boys scouts did not previously discriminate against homosexuals, per se, only people who had described themselves as such. Now they have decided to enable "openly" gay people in their lifestyle choice by allowing them in. It's pretty basic logic here. Even someone of your ability should be able to grok it.
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Good, so by allowing sinners into church, the church is also supporting their sin. The church should close itself. I wish you had just came out and said that from the beginning so I would just agree with you.

Dapper Andy said:
Sure they can.

Sexuality isn't a protected class.

Not that it matters anyway. This church is refusing services because the organization violates a central tenant of their faith.
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Not-discriminating is not violating a tenant of the christian faith. If they had a butt-sex merit badge you'd probably be right. So the boyscouts let more sinners in (all humans are sinners), why can the church let sinners in?
 
Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

Almost any church to which one may go has no problem with admitting sinners into the church, and those of us who are church members all struggle with many of the things you pointed out. There's no hypocrisy in struggling with sin. The problem comes when one insists on living in open rebellion to the scriptures by which the church abides by making environmental or genetic excuses rather than leaving what the scriptures teach as sin. The church has every reason to expel those who insist in living in open rebellion. Your argument is flawed because you lack understanding of grace and obedience in the context of the gospel.


MaggieD said:
Do they ban couples living together outside of marriage? Those who are having sex outside marriage? Those who lie? Those who cheat? Those who bully? Those who don't come to church every Sunday? Those who drink?

When churches start banning sinners?? They've lost the plot. From their tenets:



I don't see "except if you're gay" in there anywhere. You?
Click to expand...
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

RabidAlpaca said:
So let's get this straight:

RabidAlpaca said:
- The boy scouts are a sinful organization because they now allow sinners. (homosexuals)
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Don't think that is actually how it goes, but...My opinion is that the scouts are now a defunct organization. It collapsed in the face of pressure to abandon one of its core principles. Nobody should be openly declaring any of this stuff, anyhow. Its unnecessarily not appropriate. What is the real game here, anyhow?

RabidAlpaca said:
- There are no gradients of sin. All sin is equal in the eyes of god.
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I am not a bible scholar, can you point out where it says that in their/your text? I am familiar with the concept, just cannot recall it ever having been proven.

RabidAlpaca said:
- We are all sinners.
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That we are. But if we are sinners who are not actually attempting to overcome our sin, sinners that want to let everyone not only know, but also make everyone believe it is not a sin, force everyone to so believe… well, we got a different thing going there, right?


RabidAlpaca said:
- Churches allow humans into their church, which because they're human, are also sinners.
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No disagreement there.


RabidAlpaca said:
Therefore, this church is doing the EXACT SAME THING the boyscouts are doing. They're allowing sinners into their congregation (that's the point of a church!)
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What the church is doing is not the exact same thing. The each have different stations in our society. The Church is not geared towards being an ever changing, which-way-is-the-wind-blowing this year type of institution. It is supposed to be the rock. The BSA? More an ancillary organization assisting in building wholesome qualities. At least that was its previous station.

Why require this stamp, that this stain of sexuality must seep onto, into the cloth, into every single strand of everything? Can nothing be allowed even an attempt to remain pure? Can that not still be an admirable goal? The Church has as it mandate to push for purity… but it should just have to give that up so that some can feel really good about the sin they, themselves, have no intention of giving up? Would you not call that as close, or maybe even closer, to being real hypocrisy?

RabidAlpaca said:
You don't see the hypocrasy in this? So the boyscouts previously let those guilty of gluttony, lust, envy, and all the other sins, and that was ok, but as soon as they let homosexuals in, that's a no-no because that sin is worse?
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None of those others seem to be advertising their sins, not saying, hey, look at us, we are sinning, join us... and even if not, you must let us join you.
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Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

RabidAlpaca said:
Good, so by allowing sinners into church, the church is also supporting their sin. The church should close itself. I wish you had just came out and said that from the beginning so I would just agree with you.


Not-discriminating is not violating a tenant of the christian faith. If they had a butt-sex merit badge you'd probably be right. So the boyscouts let more sinners in (all humans are sinners), why can the church let sinners in?
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Again, this is just more a mixture of your own ignorance and intolerance of Christianity, not any sort of logical point. We are back to Jesus running a swingers bar behind the temple.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

jwzg said:
Your argument is flawed because you lack understanding of grace and obedience in the context of the gospel.
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Well, I'll accept that as your opinion. Still, "banning sinners" cannot be seen as Christianity at its best. How do you fill up your churches on Sunday mornings? Many Baptist churches believe married/divorced/remarried is living in adultery. Do they ban these people from their church?

Church is where sinners belong. We all are, after all.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

Gaugingcatenate said:
RabidAlpaca said:
So let's get this straight:

Don't think that is actually how it goes, but...My opinion is that the scouts are now a defunct organization. It collapsed in the face of pressure to abandon one of its core principles. Nobody should be openly declaring any of this stuff, anyhow. Its unnecessarily not appropriate. What is the real game here, anyhow?

I am not a bible scholar, can you point out where it says that in their/your text? I am familiar with the concept, just cannot recall it ever having been proven.

That we are. But if we are sinners who are not actually attempting to overcome our sin, sinners that want to let everyone not only know, but also make everyone believe it is not a sin, force everyone to so believe… well, we got a different thing going there, right?


No disagreement there.



What the church is doing is not the exact same thing. The each have different stations in our society. The Church is not geared towards being an ever changing, which-way-is-the-wind-blowing this year type of institution. It is supposed to be the rock. The BSA? More an ancillary organization assisting in building wholesome qualities. At least that was its previous station.

Why require this stamp, that this stain of sexuality must seep onto, into the cloth, into every single strand of everything? Can nothing be allowed even an attempt to remain pure? Can that not still be an admirable goal? The Church has as it mandate to push for purity… but it should just have to give that up so that some can feel really good about the sin they, themselves, have no intention of giving up? Would you not call that as close, or maybe even closer, to being real hypocrisy?



None of those others seem to be advertising their sins, not saying, hey, look at us, we are sinning, join us... and even if not, you must let us join you.
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So let's take a guy named Bob. Bob has a beer belly, and he likes eating, a LOT. He is by every definition a glutton. By allowing Bob into church without demanding that he change his life immediately, the church is supporting his sin?

I grew up in church, and a large number of them were morbidly obese. I didn't see any condemnation of their gluttony, nor did the church feel bad about allowing them in, even though that had ZERO intention to change.

So you're saying that gluttony is a "better", "more acceptable" sin than homosexuality? Should any organization that doesn't discriminate against sinners be rejected by the church? I don't see any christians rejecting Wal-Mart because they don't discriminate against homosexuals.

vendur said:
Again, this is just more a mixture of your own ignorance and intolerance of Christianity, not any sort of logical point. We are back to Jesus running a swingers bar behind the temple.
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I can tell you're just going to keep hurling insults instead of actually addressing the point.

You've refused on multiple occaisions to explain why the church can be chock full of sinners, but the boy scouts can't. The entire purpose of a swinger's club is a violation of the christian faith. The BSA's only change was who they allow to join. Not even in the same ballpark.
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Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

RabidAlpaca said:
Good, so by allowing sinners into church, the church is also supporting their sin. The church should close itself. I wish you had just came out and said that from the beginning so I would just agree with you.


Not-discriminating is not violating a tenant of the christian faith. If they had a butt-sex merit badge you'd probably be right. So the boyscouts let more sinners in (all humans are sinners), why can the church let sinners in?
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Churches can let who they want in the same way BSA can.

I hate to state the obvious but up until about a week ago the BSA didn't allow openly gay members either.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

RabidAlpaca said:
Or is gluttony a 'better' sin than homosexuality?
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So you think that overeating is same as some rump-humper sticking his penis into your ass?
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

MaggieD said:
Church is where sinners belong. We all are, after all.
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You are missing a word there, jusr before sinners. Repentant.
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

These so-called Christians act as if all sin can be and should be forgiven, except the sin of being gay.

(which isn't a sin)
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

vendur said:
You are missing a word there, jusr before sinners. Repentant.
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Really?? That's the position of churches?? I had no idea. Seems to me Christ might disagree with that.

"For the Son of man is come to seek and to save that which was lost."
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Guess he's not looking for them in churches.
 
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Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker

Dapper Andy said:
Churches can let who they want in the same way BSA can.

I hate to state the obvious but up until about a week ago the BSA didn't allow openly gay members either.
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Sure they can, they can do whatever the hell they want. This decision has no biblical basis, and is inconsistent. He didn't ban the boyscouts from the church when they were hiring pedophiles, gluttons, or masturbaters.

Texmex said:
So you think that overeating is same as some rump-humper sticking his penis into your ass?
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All sin is sin, in the eyes of god. I'd like to see the bible verse showing how the BSA sinned by NOT discriminating. The organization itself didn't sin, it hired sinners, which every person is a sinner.
 
Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

No disagreement about church being where sinners belong. However, what I have stated has strong scriptural backing. Below are just a few scriptures written regarding this very subject:

In the gospel of John, Jesus told the woman caught in adultery,"...neither do I condemn you. go and leave you life of sin".

Paul writes in Romans 6, "Shall we continue living in sin so that grace may abound? Certainly not! How can we who died to sin live any longer in it?"

Paul also writes in his first epistle to Corinth, "But now I am writing to you that you must not associate with anyone who claims to be a brother or sister but is sexually immoral or greedy, an idolater or slanderer, a drunkard or swindler. Do not even eat with such people"

Doesn't sound like we ought to be too accepting of those who INSIST on living in sin does it?

MaggieD said:
Well, I'll accept that as your opinion. Still, "banning sinners" cannot be seen as Christianity at its best. How do you fill up your churches on Sunday mornings? Many Baptist churches believe married/divorced/remarried is living in adultery. Do they ban these people from their church?

Church is where sinners belong. We all are, after all.
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Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

What ever happened to "love the sinner but hate the sin"?
 
Re: Boy Scouts Banned By Alabama Pastor Greg Walker[W:220]

MaggieD said:
Really?? That's the position of churches?? I had no idea. Seems to me Christ might disagree with that.
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What is the function of a non-repentant sinner going to church, both to the church and the individual?
 
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