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Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Session

Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

I haven't seen a single poster preaching the gospel of atheism.

Atheists, agnostics...or people perceived as non-believers have been subjected to persecution, torture, death for centuries and centuries at the hands of people determined physically and mentally force god down people's throats. Like despots, dictators, etc...for so many religions...control is the name of the game.

And don't equate atheism to tyrants like Stalin. He, and others in history like him were a murdering psychopaths...you know, pretty much like religious leaders during the inquisition...and other periods...around the world...and it still goes on.

Talk about hypocrisy...open your eyes...get honest about the horrific costs perpetrated on humanity in the name of god and/or religion.

Atheists push a belief: the belief that there is no god. Pushing that belief in the government is a violation of the 1st Amendment, too. i.e. the government can't tell people that there IS no god, because it violates religious freedom.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Considering the constituents of a politician are living, breathing people, while god is a mythical beast with zero evidence, yes, you can behave rationally AND represent your constituents.

If you're a politician that places god over your electorate, you are in dereliction of your duties.

Both belief and non belief are irrational positions. Please prove God does not exist. Of course you can't, no more than a believer can 'prove' God does exist. Both positions are based on faith. I am an agnostic. Unlike my atheist and believer friends I'm not egotistical enough to proclaim to the world this or that. Again, Secular Humanism is a religion. Many of It's followers openly desire to convert humanity to their position. The gentleman from Arizona is a hypocrite. As a Secular Humanist he is attempting to impose his belief system on the State Legislature.

"The most vigorous form of secular humanism in the world today seems to be Marxist humanism...Marxist humanism rejects theistic hypocrisy..."

Kurtz, Paul - IN DEFENSE OF SECULAR HUMANISM, (Buffalo: Prometheus Press, 1983) p. 136
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Well, there are different kinds of atheists. Not all are what one would call "active" atheists, in other words the type who actively believe that God, as a fact, does not exist. Quite a lot are passive atheists, like myself, which believe that as no evidence of God yet exists there is no serious need to accept the possibility that he exists.

Based on Mendez's opening he may very possibly be a passive atheist. No way to know for sure, though.

You need to buy a dictionary and look up the word, "agnostic".
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Both belief and non belief are irrational positions. Please prove God does not exist. Of course you can't, no more than a believer can 'prove' God does exist. Both positions are based on faith. I am an agnostic. Unlike my atheist and believer friends I'm not egotistical enough to proclaim to the world this or that. Again, Secular Humanism is a religion. Many of It's followers openly desire to convert humanity to their position. The gentleman from Arizona is a hypocrite. As a Secular Humanist he is attempting to impose his belief system on the State Legislature.

"The most vigorous form of secular humanism in the world today seems to be Marxist humanism...Marxist humanism rejects theistic hypocrisy..."

Kurtz, Paul - IN DEFENSE OF SECULAR HUMANISM, (Buffalo: Prometheus Press, 1983) p. 136

I'm a member of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Nobody has ever proven that he doesn't exist, therefore he just does.

Making up things that can't be proven, then claiming they're fact because they can't be disproven, is weak and a detriment to our society. Politicians' #1 loyalty should be to their constituents, not their imaginary friends.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Atheists push a belief: the belief that there is no god. Pushing that belief in the government is a violation of the 1st Amendment, too. i.e. the government can't tell people that there IS no god, because it violates religious freedom.

Christians push a belief: the belief that there is a god. Pushing that belief in the government is a violation of the 1st Amendment, too. i.e. the government can't tell people that there IS a god, because it violates religious freedom.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Christians push a belief: the belief that there is a god. Pushing that belief in the government is a violation of the 1st Amendment, too. i.e. the government can't tell people that there IS a god, because it violates religious freedom.

As we've been told ad nauseum, which is why I'm pointing out the hypocrisy of an atheist doing the same thing.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

I'm a member of the church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster. Nobody has ever proven that he doesn't exist, therefore he just does.

Making up things that can't be proven, then claiming they're fact because they can't be disproven, is weak and a detriment to our society. Politicians' #1 loyalty should be to their constituents, not their imaginary friends.

Denying the existence of a God without factual evidence is also 'making up things'. Now, provide tangible evidence that a God does not exist. Thanks.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Denying the existence of a God without factual evidence is also 'making up things'. Now, provide tangible evidence that a God does not exist. Thanks.

I don't have to, the burden of proof is on the believers. Until something is proven to exist, it doesn't. Prove there isn't an invisible unicorn having sex with you right now.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

So an atheist legislator spoke about humanism instead of praying.


Not surprising and I don't know what all the hoopla is about...
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

You need to buy a dictionary and look up the word, "agnostic".

He already understands it better than you do atheism.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

He already understands it better than you do atheism.

Obviously, he doesn't.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Christians push a belief: the belief that there is a god. Pushing that belief in the government is a violation of the 1st Amendment, too. i.e. the government can't tell people that there IS a god, because it violates religious freedom.

Members in government can believe in God, speak their minds about God, and can pray during government sessions. In no way does this set up laws/theocracy that supports a religion.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Your faith that atheists believe there is no god is false.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Atheists push a belief: the belief that there is no god. Pushing that belief in the government is a violation of the 1st Amendment, too. i.e. the government can't tell people that there IS no god, because it violates religious freedom.

Stephen F. Roberts sums up the situation very nicely:

"I contend that we are both atheists. I just believe in one fewer god than you do. When you understand why you dismiss all the other possible gods, you will understand why I dismiss yours."


Christianity: 2.1 billion
Islam: 1.3 billion
Hinduism: 900 million
Chinese traditional religion: 394 million
Buddhism: 376 million
African Traditional & Diasporic: 100 million
Sikhism: 23 million
Juche: 19 million
Spiritism: 15 million
Judaism: 14 million
Baha'i: 7 million
Jainism: 4.2 million
Shinto: 4 million
Cao Dai: 4 million
Zoroastrianism: 2.6 million
Tenrikyo: 2 million
Neo-Paganism: 1 million
Unitarian-Universalism: 800 thousand
Rastafarianism: 600 thousand
Scientology: 500 thousand

If you believe in God, you have chosen to reject Allah, Vishnu, Budda, Waheguru and all of the thousands of other gods that other people worship today. It is quite likely that you rejected these other gods without ever looking into their religions or reading their books.

You simply absorbed the dominant faith in your home or in the society you grew up in.

In the same way, the followers of all these other religions have chosen to reject God. You think their gods are imaginary, and they think your God is imaginary.

In other words, each religious person on earth today arbitrarily rejects thousands of gods as imaginary, many of which he/she has never even heard of, and arbitrarily chooses to "believe" in one of them.

WHICH god do you want running our government? Which god is for all people...everywhere?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

You need to buy a dictionary and look up the word, "agnostic".

An agnostic accepts the possibility of a god. A passive atheist doesn't feel the need to accept the possibility.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

What's the practical difference? There is no evidence of a gorilla standing behind you right now, and thus no serious need to accept the possibility that there is. Isn't that a fact, then, that there is no such gorilla? You can say that there could be, but only if it were an invisible, silent gorilla, whose breath you couldn't feel, whose body heat you couldn't feel, who you couldn't smell, whose mass didn't emit any gravitational pull, and who you could then move right through. Isn't a complete lack of evidence for something grounds for it to be a fact that it isn't there?

Is it a fact that my phone isn't going to come to life and try to bite me? Is it a fact that when I pluck a properly tuned low E string on my guitar, it will always play a low E and not suddenly emit a middle C? Is it a fact that when I go to sleep tonight with five toes on my right foot, I will not wake up with a sixth tomorrow? Sure, these all fall into the realm of things you cannot know for 100% certainty without an infinite data sample, but at some point, 99.999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999% probability has to be enough to call it a fact. Complete lack of any evidence gives us such a probability. So what say you, are the invisible gorilla, the hungry phone, the tonedeaf guitar, and the extra toe precluded by fact, or mere assumption?

By safe enough assumption to say that they're precluded by all existing observable knowledge. I sleep very, very well tonight in the fantastically safe assumption that there is no invisible gorilla behind me.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

An agnostic accepts the possibility of a god. A passive atheist doesn't feel the need to accept the possibility.

Still haven't looked at that dictionary?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Still haven't looked at that dictionary?

Actually I have. Your turn.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

Atheists push a belief: the belief that there is no god.

Except, no. Atheism is not the belief of a lack of God, it is the lack of belief in God.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

I don't have to, the burden of proof is on the believers. Until something is proven to exist, it doesn't. Prove there isn't an invisible unicorn having sex with you right now.

I can video the here and now to provide proof of not having sex with a unicorn, I'm not invisible. Nice try, now provide tangible evidence there ia no God. The burden of proof is a as much on non believers as it is on believers. Both groups make claims they simply cannot prove. Again the state rep in Az is attempting to impose his religious beliefs on others. I'm sure you can understand that.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

I can video the here and now to provide proof of not having sex with a unicorn, I'm not invisible. Nice try, now provide tangible evidence there ia no God. The burden of proof is a as much on non believers as it is on believers. Both groups make claims they simply cannot prove. Again the state rep in Az is attempting to impose his religious beliefs on others. I'm sure you can understand that.

You can not provide a video showing that an invisible unicorn is not raping you. You simply can't do it. Therefore, we HAVE to assume it is happening.

Do you not see the insanity in this?

There has to be proof for something to be true. I am an atheist; I believe there is no god. However, I am fully willing to change my views if I am provided with evidence for god. Until that point, I have to assume that you people made it up, just like I made up the story about a unicorn raping you.

That's the way the burden of proof works. In order to make a positive claim, you must provide evidence, plain and simple.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

By safe enough assumption to say that they're precluded by all existing observable knowledge. I sleep very, very well tonight in the fantastically safe assumption that there is no invisible gorilla behind me.

So then what's the difference in these types of atheists? What's the difference between "actively believing" that there is no god and concluding that there isn't based on lack of evidence. I suppose if you define "belief" the way that theists tend to, which is adhering to a position despite contradictory evidence, but in basically every other case, belief is a conclusion based on knowledge. I believe that you are no plagued by an invisible gorilla. Because of the available evidence. So, what makes it "active"?

This reminds me a bit of the whole assertion about "militant" atheists. That is, atheists that try to prove their case, rather than just quietly blending into the theistic society around them and pretending not to be different. It seems like a distinction that only exists in the minds of detractors, and shows how much they cannot stand having anything less than a complete stranglehold on society. And how they are so used to having it that they don't realize it for what it is.

You can not provide a video showing that an invisible unicorn is not raping you. You simply can't do it. Therefore, we HAVE to assume it is happening.

Jeez, man. At least my invisible gorilla isn't raping anyone.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

People are becoming increasingly creative in their non-sequitor analogies attempting to debunk the divine. While an atheist myself, I have no way of constructing a valid statement to prove an unequivocal point that believing is a fallacy.
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

You can not provide a video showing that an invisible unicorn is not raping you. You simply can't do it. Therefore, we HAVE to assume it is happening.

Do you not see the insanity in this?

There has to be proof for something to be true. I am an atheist; I believe there is no god. However, I am fully willing to change my views if I am provided with evidence for god. Until that point, I have to assume that you people made it up, just like I made up the story about a unicorn raping you.

That's the way the burden of proof works. In order to make a positive claim, you must provide evidence, plain and simple.

No, there does not have to be proof for something to be true. There has to be tangible evidence for something to be factual. Neither you nor John Hagee can demonstrate your truths. One is right and one is wrong, both positions are based on faith and belief, not presentable fact. Again the State Rep is trying to impose his religious beliefs on a governmental body. You do understand that don't you?
 
Re: Atheist State Lawmaker Quotes Carl Sagan Instead of Doing Prayer Before House Ses

People are becoming increasingly creative in their non-sequitor analogies attempting to debunk the divine. While an atheist myself, I have no way of constructing a valid statement to prove an unequivocal point that believing is a fallacy.

Good post.
 
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