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Snowe: President thought opposition to health law would eventually fade away

Not a bad thought from the President. It was one of the common talking points against the bill, was that once it starts it won't stop. Those in support of the bill thought that the good would dramatically outweigh whatever problems would surface, and opposition to the bill would gradually diminish.
 

I think Snowe is right. In the latest poll I seen 51% of all Americans view Obamacare in the unfavorable light while 43% view it as favorable. When it passed 58% were against it and 39% for it. But this latest poll shows an increase in the unfavorable states from just two months ago when 49% viewed in as unfavorable to 46% favorable.

I think this means that the population was moving in the direction of Obamacare very slowly over a 2 year period, but now they have shifted again to moving against Obamacare where they were when it was first passed. If implementation results in a train wreck as there has been a lot of talk lately of happening, I look for this to become a hot election issue and perhaps hot enough for the GOP to gain the senate.
 
Then where is tort reform?

1st, I did say all republican ideas were in the Bill.

2nd, states have done tort reform with no noticeable change in costs. So while I don't object to reasonable tort reform, it is too hyped by many republicans. It would at best have limited effected.
 
Polling went up a few months after it was passed to above 50% but that will likely change once people start getting smacked with the reality beginning in October.
 
1st, I did say all republican ideas were in the Bill.

One can keep saying this until the cows come in, but the reality is that the scheme got one Republican vote in the House and zero in the Senate. The ideas obviously weren't TOO Republican!

But isn't this really beside the point? The Democrats were banking on the notion that it was OK to pass the scheme in the face of clear cut public opposition because they assumed that the opposition would dissipate. But it hasn't, and it won't.
 
One can keep saying this until the cows come in, but the reality is that the scheme got one Republican vote in the House and zero in the Senate. The ideas obviously weren't TOO Republican!

But isn't this really beside the point? The Democrats were banking on the notion that it was OK to pass the scheme in the face of clear cut public opposition because they assumed that the opposition would dissipate. But it hasn't, and it won't.

As always, two different issues. I said nothing about the vote, as the decision not to support Obama on anything had already been made. Instead, try and deny that these were not ideas previously put forth by republicans.

Healthcare reform is too often tainted with demonization and misinformation. The history on efforts at reform is full of this. And this leads more often to nothing getting done at all. This time it led to a poor choice over both a better (the public option) and worse choice (doing nothing once more).

If we want better, we have to grow up and through the demonization and discuss this like adults wanting to solve a real problem.
 
As always, two different issues. I said
nothing about the vote, as the decision
not to support Obama on anything had already been made. Instead, try and deny that these were not ideas previously put forth by republicans.

Healthcare reform is too often tainted with demonization and misinformation. The history on efforts at reform is full of this. And this leads more often to nothing getting done at all. This time it led to a poor choice over both a better (the public option) and worse choice (doing nothing once more).

If we want better, we have to grow up and through the demonization and discuss this like adults wanting to solve a real problem.

Really ? Aside from your mitigations and BS feel good "work together" rhetoric the truth about this bill was it was soley a Democrat bill, with NO Republican input prior to this disaster being passed.

So you can't arbitrarily blame this on Republican ideas when the GOPs idea's at the time were being ignored.

The damage this bill has already done has been catastrophic, as Libs afraid of the truth use every other excuse under the sun to explain the last 4.5 years of stagnation, shrinking of the middle class, rising poverty levels and record increases in Dependency.

How stupid is it in a free market society for a Corrupt administration to arbitrarily mandate increasing cost on every bussiness and private citizen ?

It's SERIOUSLY stupid, and in no way was the law, a law "we had to pass before we knew what was in it" a Republican bill.

I know your memory can't be that short to forget the Republicand ideas at the time.
 
Really ? Aside from your mitigations and BS feel good "work together" rhetoric the truth about this bill was it was soley a Democrat bill, with NO Republican input prior to this disaster being passed.

So you can't arbitrarily blame this on Republican ideas when the GOPs idea's at the time were being ignored.

The damage this bill has already done has been catastrophic, as Libs afraid of the truth use every other excuse under the sun to explain the last 4.5 years of stagnation, shrinking of the middle class, rising poverty levels and record increases in Dependency.

How stupid is it in a free market society for a Corrupt administration to arbitrarily mandate increasing cost on every bussiness and private citizen ?

It's SERIOUSLY stupid, and in no way was the law, a law "we had to pass before we knew what was in it" a Republican bill.

I know your memory can't be that short to forget the Republicand ideas at the time.

You don't seem to know or understand what I wrote and argued. Read again, slower.
 
As always, two different issues. I said nothing about the vote, as the decision not to support Obama on anything had already been made. Instead, try and deny that these were not ideas previously put forth by republicans.

Healthcare reform is too often tainted with demonization and misinformation. The history on efforts at reform is full of this. And this leads more often to nothing getting done at all. This time it led to a poor choice over both a better (the public option) and worse choice (doing nothing once more).

If we want better, we have to grow up and through the demonization and discuss this like adults wanting to solve a real problem.

I'm not a defender of the status quo ante but, given Obamacare, doing nothing once more was the obvious right choice.
 
I'm not a defender of the status quo ante but, given Obamacare, doing nothing once more was the obvious right choice.

I quite disagree. My hope was people would get to work making it better, but the political "let's oppose anything Obama" has been very resilient, . . . Sadly.
 
1st, I did say all republican ideas were in the Bill.

2nd, states have done tort reform with no noticeable change in costs. So while I don't object to reasonable tort reform, it is too hyped by many republicans. It would at best have limited effected.

Defensive medicine + tort costs only around $100B. Of course the savings wouldn't be absolutely enormous, but its an easy cost to reduce right off the bat. Patient noncompliance costs around $200B a year. That's over $300B of pure waste that can be chopped down right from the get go. Mind you If we were to reduce even have of these costs, that would lead more savings in health care costs than every doctor in America working for free for a year.

Please tell me exactly which Republicans were pushing limits on flexible spending accounts, throwing another 30 million people on Medicaid, hundreds of billions of dollars in new taxes, fixing premium costs to a % of income (rent control and price setting has NEVER worked in any sector, and it damn sure won't work in healthcare) and further restricting medical underwriting (the fact that I will be paying only 1/3rd in what someone who is old, obese, and has diabetes despite using less then 1/20th the amount of healthcare they use is complete bull****, through and through)?

Yeah, Republicans had the idea of an individual mandate as well as health care exchanges to shop for insurance. By itself, these may have been good ideas. But when you combine an individual mandate with restricting underwriting? That is a radical shifting of costs onto the relatively healthy for the benefit of the extremely unhealthy. When you combine these two policies together, it turns the individual mandate into a completely different animal. So saying it was a "Republican idea" is downright dishonest when you know for a fact that no Republican would support the healthcare law in its present form. Some of healthcare is about life choices, and I am staunchly against any program that attempts to punish those who make all the right choices for the benefit of those who do not.
 
As always, two different issues. I said nothing about the vote, as the decision not to support Obama on anything had already been made. Instead, try and deny that these were not ideas previously put forth by republicans.

Healthcare reform is too often tainted with demonization and misinformation. The history on efforts at reform is full of this. And this leads more often to nothing getting done at all. This time it led to a poor choice over both a better (the public option) and worse choice (doing nothing once more).

If we want better, we have to grow up and through the demonization and discuss this like adults wanting to solve a real problem.

That's funny that you mention misinformation. Because every time I bring up what is actually in the bill, most Libs want absolutely no part of that debate.
 
I quite disagree. My hope was people would get to work making it better, but the political "let's oppose anything Obama" has been very resilient, . . . Sadly.

Does this worn out talking point ever get old? The bill was passed 3 years ago, and it is freely available for scrutiny on the merits of it and it alone. The bill is a train wreck, and hiding behind rhetoric and diversion tactics isn't going to save it.
 
I quite disagree. My hope was people would get to work making it better, but the political "let's oppose anything Obama" has been very resilient, . . . Sadly.

Yes, they crammed the bill through using irregular procedures on the assumption that they could fix all the mistakes later.
 
It might once Obama's not in office any more. After all, it holds a lot of republican ideas.

Not one Republican voted for it! Not one.

Is this going in the direction of blaming the Republicans for Obamacare? Is that the Dems new strategy?
 
I quite disagree. My hope was people would get to work making it better, but the political "let's oppose anything Obama" has been very resilient, . . . Sadly.

"Oppose anything Obama" when Obamacare was littered with Republican ideas? Why would that be?
 
Does this worn out talking point ever get old? The bill was passed 3 years ago, and it is freely available for scrutiny on the merits of it and it alone. The bill is a train wreck, and hiding behind rhetoric and diversion tactics isn't going to save it.

It was a train that went uninspected before it even left the station. The wreck was inevitable.
 
Polling went up a few months after it was passed to above 50% but that will likely change once people start getting smacked with the reality beginning in October.

A family of four getting smacked with a $20,000 per year Obama Care premium will be more like a sucker punch.
 
It was a train that went uninspected before it even left the station. The wreck was inevitable.

A train to Atlantis. They knew where it was going.
 
Then where is tort reform?

Could have had tort reform with one single Republican vote, but Republicans were more interested in seeing he President fail than the bill improve. But the core of he bill is the Republican alternative proposal to Hillarycare, as fleshed out by the Heritage Foundation and embraced by many Republicans as a free market solution to universal health care... Until Obama liked it, then it became StalinHitlerLeninKenyanMuslimCare.
 
We should find out what the premiums will actually be around October. Lets talk then.

I'm just going by what I heard a week ago and they didn't say October but just said in 2014.

Internal cost estimates from 17 of the nation's largest insurance companies indicate that health insurance premiums will grow an average of 100 percent under Obamacare, and that some will soar more than 400 percent, crushing the administration's goal of affordability.

New regulations, policies, taxes, fees and mandates are the reason for the unexpected "rate shock," according to the House Energy and Commerce Committee, which released a report Monday based on internal documents provided by the insurance companies. The 17 companies include Aetna, Blue Cross Blue Shield and Kaiser Foundation.

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The report found that individuals will face "premium increases of nearly 100 percent on average, with potential highs eclipsing 400 percent. Meanwhile, small businesses can expect average premium increases in the small group market of up to 50 percent, with potential highs over 100 percent."

One company said that new participants in the individual market could see a premium increase of 413 percent when new requirements on age rating and required benefits are taken into account, said the report. "The average yearly cost for a new customer in the individual market grows from $1,896 to $3,708 -- a $1,812 cost increase," it added.

The key reasons for the surge in premiums include providing wider services than people are now paying for and adding less healthy people to the rolls of insured, said the report.

It concluded: "Despite promises that the law will lower costs, [Obamacare] will in fact cause the premiums of many Americans to spike substantially. The broken promises are numerous, and the empirical data reveal that many Americans, from recent college graduates to older adults, will not be able to afford the law's higher costs."
Insurers predict 100% to 400% Obamacare rate explosion | WashingtonExaminer.com

At his press conference Tuesday, President Obama assured Americans that, “To the 85-90 percent of Americans who already have health insurance: They’re already experiencing most of the benefits of the Affordable Care Act even if they don’t know it.”

Those benefits apparently include higher premiums. According to the Wall Street Journal, insurers are warning that premiums in the individual and small-group markets could double in the next few years. Already, they are well on their way. For example, California health insurers are proposing increases for some customers of 20 percent or more: 26 percent by Blue Cross, 22 percent by Aetna, and 20 percent by Blue Shield. In Maryland, Care First, the state’s largest insurer, has proposed a 25 percent increase for next year.

Younger and healthier Americans can expect to pay even more. According to a survey by the American Action Forum, healthy young people in the individual or small-group insurance markets can look forward to rate increases averaging as much as 169 percent.

Read more: Obamacare's 'benefits' are gradually becoming apparent | The Daily Caller
 
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