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Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes

Moot said:
Nothing is free, especially the government. So if you want it's protection you have to pay for it. So in answer to your question, yes, the government has a right to your money in exchange for it's protection.
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you need to rephrase that, the government has no rights, only powers, and they can be changed at any time.
 
ernst barkmann said:
you need to rephrase that, the government has no rights, only powers, and they can be changed at any time.
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I set her up for that actually. I played a little trick on the OP by phrasing a question with a false premise and she bought into it. I did this to expose an error in judgment taking place with the supporters of locking down on these actions.
 
Henrin said:
I set her up for that actually. I played a little trick on the OP by phrasing a question with a false premise and she bought into it. I did this to expose an error in judgment taking place with the supporters of locking down on these actions.
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aha! you sly sun of a gun you! You so smart! :lamo
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more: Senate investigators: Apple sheltered $44 billion from taxes - Tony Romm - POLITICO.com

Yup.. 44 billion bucks! [/FONT][/COLOR]:shock: Now this activity isnt "illegal" i certainly believe that it should be.
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Wooohooooo. I might even consider buying apple now, but only consider.

Lets have more and more companies do this and see how the debt does. Until they cut useless costly socialist like programs, as many as possible should avoid all the taxes they can. In fact, lets just start seeing more and more companies just packup and leave due to over-taxation to support the lazy.
 
Here is the deal, profits made overseas are not taxable unless they are brought into the US in some way. If Apple maintains those funds in overseas subsidiaries, they are only subject to taxes within the country they are made in or sold in. Thats the law. Thats ALWAYS been the law.
 
tererun said:
Steve jobs marketing is not new or revolutionary. It is the same marketing scheme used by abercrombie or things like luxury car companies. Make a brand name, overcharge for your products, and idiots will pay more for less in an effort to be seen as elite. Everything apple has innovated has been done better and cheaper by others.
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I never said it was new, I said he was amazing at it. Yes I know about the apple fan boys all too well !:roll:
 
Are you aware that as American citizens we are subject to global taxation by US law? So how can you support a corporation having greater rights than an individual?



OpportunityCost said:
Here is the deal, profits made overseas are not taxable unless they are brought into the US in some way. If Apple maintains those funds in overseas subsidiaries, they are only subject to taxes within the country they are made in or sold in. Thats the law. Thats ALWAYS been the law.
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TheDemSocialist said:
Yup.. 44 billion bucks! [/FONT][/COLOR]:shock: Now this activity isnt "illegal" i certainly believe that it should be.
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Once it actually becomes illegal and Apple continues doing it let me know. Until then it's just good business practices.
 
I'm all for companies and individuals doing whatever they legally can to retain their money from taxation. Nothing wrong with them doing what any other financially rational individual would do.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Why? Because they are avoiding taxes.
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The government makes the tax laws, not Apple. The government is the one that says, do this with your money, and you owe tax on it. Do something else, and you don't. So, now you think they should collect taxes on it anyway? That doesn't make any sense at all.

Besides, Apple avoided $44 billion? That is a crapload of taxes for any company to be paying, above what they are already paying. If that was the case, we would have to fix that with a big tax cut. We are not here to serve this government, it's the other way around. People on the left need to get that through their collective heads.
 
Tigger said:
Once it actually becomes illegal and Apple continues doing it let me know. Until then it's just good business practices.
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Not only is it good business practice, they owe it to the shareholders to avoid overpaying taxes.
 
specklebang said:
Are you aware that as American citizens we are subject to global taxation by US law? So how can you support a corporation having greater rights than an individual?
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Those arent rights, those are restrictions. And yes, I support individuals having more restrictions than the organizations or activities they pursue.
 
It's an interesting perspective and while I certainly don't agree with you I respect your honesty in expressing your feelings that a corporation is more valuable than you are. Since there have been severak ases of severe corporate crime recently in the pharmaceutical and banking industry and they were punished with fines for actions that would have resulted in a life sentence for an individual, I would say that yours is the more accepted opinion.





jonny5 said:
Those arent rights, those are restrictions. And yes, I support individuals having more restrictions than the organizations or activities they pursue.
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Deuce said:
And Apple benefits tremendously from US government spending. You think they should just get it for free?
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You know, I don't respond to the "you didn't build that" kind of argument. There is no reason to use it against me. In the end, the business is profitable because of the actions of the people that work there. Roads don't make a business successful, but just make it easier for people to do business with the party that is providing the service. That is all it does for the business.

If someone is smart enough to avoid paying any taxes to a party that is only interesting in taking money from people without their consent and desires to use taxes to punish people and behaviors, yes, I support them a hundred percent. I would also like to know how they did it. :D
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Why? Because they are avoiding taxes.
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But the law says they don't have to pay it. So your argument must assume that there is some moral obligation to pay more than the legal requirements?
 
Henrin said:
You know, I don't respond to the "you didn't build that" kind of argument. There is no reason to use it against me. In the end, the business is profitable because of the actions of the people that work there. Roads don't make a business successful, but just make it easier for people to do business with the party that is providing the service. That is all it does for the business.

If someone is smart enough to avoid paying any taxes to a party that is only interesting in taking money from people without their consent and desires to use taxes to punish people and behaviors, yes, I support them a hundred percent. I would also like to know how they did it. :D
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Roads don't make a business successful, but without roads they wouldn't be successful. And it's more than just roads. It's a stable, safe environment to work in. Police protect the streets. Military protects the border. Schools make useful workers. The lights always turn on because there's an incredibly stable power grid and when it fails in a major way there's a major response. And the customers have reasonable assurance that whatever product they buy will be safe and work as advertised, because someone is checking up on that business from time to time.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. It doesn't really matter whether or not you like the idea.
 
Deuce said:
Roads don't make a business successful, but without roads they wouldn't be successful. And it's more than just roads. It's a stable, safe environment to work in. Police protect the streets. Military protects the border. Schools make useful workers. The lights always turn on because there's an incredibly stable power grid and when it fails in a major way there's a major response. And the customers have reasonable assurance that whatever product they buy will be safe and work as advertised, because someone is checking up on that business from time to time.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. It doesn't really matter whether or not you like the idea.
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Apple has a budget to balance and they do it. When the government controls their spending sufficiently to cover their expanses then perhaps they might be listened to. As it is they are out of control.
 
jonny5 said:
Good for Apple. They still pay seven billion :shock: and they just pass that down to us in prices anyway. Lower the corporate tax to zero and they wont have to play these games. Problem solved.
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Yea and that would be just glorious.... The deficit, the services, etc. Just imagine how awesome it would be :doh
 
specklebang said:
It's an interesting perspective and while I certainly don't agree with you I respect your honesty in expressing your feelings that a corporation is more valuable than you are. Since there have been severak ases of severe corporate crime recently in the pharmaceutical and banking industry and they were punished with fines for actions that would have resulted in a life sentence for an individual, I would say that yours is the more accepted opinion.
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A corporation is property, which is why its more valuable, and less interactive with the govt. Laws are for people, not constructs.
 
Deuce said:
Roads don't make a business successful, but without roads they wouldn't be successful. And it's more than just roads. It's a stable, safe environment to work in. Police protect the streets. Military protects the border. Schools make useful workers. The lights always turn on because there's an incredibly stable power grid and when it fails in a major way there's a major response. And the customers have reasonable assurance that whatever product they buy will be safe and work as advertised, because someone is checking up on that business from time to time.

Nothing happens in a vacuum. It doesn't really matter whether or not you like the idea.
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And citizens should pay for those things, not the organizations they are a part of.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Yea and that would be just glorious.... The deficit, the services, etc. Just imagine how awesome it would be :doh
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It would be no different. Corporate taxes only account for 200 billion dollars. The govt spends 3500 billion.
 
Didn't a recent SCOTUS ruling called Citizens United change that? Don't the individuals who make corporate decisions have any personal liability? Are constructs sentient?


jonny5 said:
A corporation is property, which is why its more valuable, and less interactive with the govt. Laws are for people, not constructs.
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The laws are backwards. We tax the money they spend here and gift them the money the don't spend here. Seems ridiculous.

How about no tax for what they make here and tax the overseas income? Wouldn't that make more sense?





TheDemSocialist said:
Yea and that would be just glorious.... The deficit, the services, etc. Just imagine how awesome it would be :doh
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