Day of Prayer vs Day of Reason 2013.....

Congressman Pete Stark calls for National Day of Reason instead of prayer.....

San Francisco Congressman Pete Stark is in the U.S. House of Representatives combatting the National Day of Prayer for the second year in a row, calling for a National Day of Reason. Stark proclaimed Friday:



“The National Day of Reason celebrates the application of reason and the positive impact it has had on humanity. It is also an opportunity to reaffirm the Constitutional separation of religion and government… I encourage everyone to join in observing this day and focusing upon the employment of reason, critical thinking, the scientific method, and free inquiry to improve our world and our nation.”

The National Day of Prayer began in 1952 when Congress passed a joint resolution signed into law by President Truman to observe a national day of prayer. President Reagan signed an amended version of that law in 1988 which set the official day as the first Thursday of every May. Read more about this national day’s history on National Day of Prayer’s website. Every year the President signs a proclamation making that year’s National Day of Prayer official. President Obama’s proclamation this year can be read here.

Secularists started calling for a National Day of Reason in 2003 when the American Humanist Association and the Washington Area Secular Humanists launched a website calling all from “the community of reason” to celebrate inclusive reason on the same day as the exclusive National Day of Prayer. They argue on their About page that the National Day of Prayer violates the First Amendment of the US Constitution as it sets aside tax dollars to support religion.

Stark also spoke at the Reason Rally, which drew about 20,000 atheists to the National Mall in March.....snip~

Congressman Pete Stark calls for National Day of Reason instead of prayer - San Francisco apologetics | Examiner.com

So today Stark brought out his Day of Reason on the House Floor. What is your thoughts concerning the Day of Prayer being set by Congress and those That say it is Unconstitutional and that the Day should be called the Day of Reason?

Also the Mayor of North Carolina that Obama wants to make as his Transportation Secretary jumped up into the Limelight.....by Declaring Today the Day of Reason as a Proclamation.

If the president is going to endorse a day of prayer then he should endorse a day of reason. Of course, he could just stay out of it and stop telling people to pray, but what would the fun be in making a decent decision to let religion stand on it's own without government endorsement.

Why does it need to be renamed if it is not what it is? If you don't want to have a National Day of Prayer, whatever, but a National Day of Reason just sounds completely retarded.

Prayer is reasonable.

I'm not necessarily concerned with a "National Day of Prayer". The government is not really making religious law, or requiring everyone to pray, it's more a publicity/historic thing at this point. Overall there are many topics which are of much greater importance and impact than the National Day of Prayer.

The weird thing to me is in assuming that there is by definition a dichotomy between faith and reason.

Fisher said:

but a National Day of Reason just sounds completely retarded.

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heheh, I LoLed

LETS GET READY TO RUMMMMMMBLE! :beat

<<<<< In this corner we have the Day of Prayer created by joint Resolution of Congress in 1952. Champion and Holder of the Day :boxer .....and in this Corner >>>>> we have the Challenger. The Day of Reason. :boxer Rising thru the Ranks as Contender Since 2003 and looking for Disqualification. Since it's only defeat was thru a technical.

Reason is certainly more worthy of celebration than prayer. But every day should be a day of reason, not just one.

digsbe said:

Prayer is reasonable.

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No, no it isn't. Its making yourself feel like you're helping when really doing nothing.

Lachean said:

No, no it isn't. Its making yourself feel like you're helping when really doing nothing.

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And what would a "national day of reason" do? Have all the armchair intellectuals typing away on how the religious are morons and their enlightened state is saving the nation by sitting away and attacking people of faith?

Prayer is more than just praying for God to intervene in the nation, it's also about seeking wisdom as to how we need to lead the nation and for our leaders. Even if you don't believe in God or think prayer is worthless it does get people focused and thinking about what is wrong in America or being concerned about the nation's well being.

Paschendale said:

Reason is certainly more worthy of celebration than prayer. But every day should be a day of reason, not just one.

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I think that's where the Buddhist says that Reason is but of the Physical and the Mind. To be one.....one must encompass both that which is physical and that which is spiritual. Then again it may have been a Shaolin Priest.

digsbe said:

And what would a "national day of reason" do?

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Nothing, that should be EVERY day.

digsbe said:

Have all the armchair intellectuals typing away on how the religious are morons and their enlightened state is saving the nation by sitting away and attacking people of faith?

Prayer is more than just praying for God to intervene in the nation, it's also about seeking wisdom as to how we need to lead the nation and for our leaders. Even if you don't believe in God or think prayer is worthless it does get people focused and thinking about what is wrong in America or being concerned about the nation's well being.

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None of this explains how faith is reasonable. There is nothing logical or rational about it. Sorry if you take that as an "attack."

nota bene said:

The weird thing to me is in assuming that there is by definition a dichotomy between faith and reason.

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Are you serious?

I think, Digsbe, that we might even be able to refer to prayer as "focused thinking." What is reasoning if not contemplative?

Lachean said:

None of this explains how faith is reasonable. There is nothing logical or rational about it.

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It also ain't hurting nobody, so I don't really see a need to get up in arms over this when there are many other issues to be up in arms over. If this were truly the biggest concern in our lives, we'd be living the High Life. A National Day of Prayer? Fine, most people are religious and they ain't gonna force me to pray or fine me for not praying or whatever. If they ain't messing with me, I see no reason to mess with them.

Of course if I were in charge I would have an official 365 days of "Minding your own business". Once every 4 years you can have a day to be in other people's business. Hehehe.

Could we say that his slogan for pushing the day would be "Reason is Coming"?

MMC said:

I think that's where the Buddhist says that Reason is but of the Physical and the Mind. To be one.....one must encompass both that which is physical and that which is spiritual. Then again it may have been a Shaolin Priest.

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Assuming you mean spiritual to be things of the mind, emotions, and feelings, that's fine. Reason encompasses these things as well as cold logic. But prayer is asking magic people to do favors for you.

Lachean said:

Nothing, that should be EVERY day.

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With that I will agree.

None of this explains how faith is reasonable. There is nothing logical or rational about it. Sorry if you take that as an "attack."

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My apologies if what I said seemed to suggest that what you said was an attack. My intent was to focus on those that I have nicknamed as "airmchair intellectuals." They are the people who sit back, prop themselves and their perceived outlook of rational/mental superiority and degrade and attack those that disagree with them. Militant atheists, hyperpartisans, and dogmatic people of faith that blast their views around with a "I am right because I'm right" mentality along with some other groups would fall into this category

Personally, I believe that faith in God is rational. It's not irrational to believe that God exists. I also think that it isn't irrational to believe in prayer, especially considering that even if God isn't listening it does get people's hearts and minds focused on issues and their concerns.

This is what HUFF-PO has up on it. From what Stark Wrote in 2011


While many recognize today, Thursday, May 5, 2011, as the National Day of Prayer, I am writing to recognize it as the 2011 National Day of Reason.

The National Day of Reason, observed by millions of people in this country and around the world since 2003, celebrates the application of reason and the positive impacts it has had on humanity. Reason and rational discourse have the power to improve living conditions around the world and cultivate intelligent, moral, and ethical interactions among people.

Reason and rational thinking have made our country great. The Constitution of the United States of America is based upon the philosophies developed during the historical Age of Reason and the idea that citizens engaging in rational discourse and decision-making can govern themselves. The Constitution also contains a strong separation of church and state, making it clear that government should continue to be built on reason.

The National Day of Reason is also about taking time to improve our communities -- whether that means holding a blood drive or collecting items for the local food bank. It is also about ensuring that our government represents citizens of all beliefs and backgrounds.

I encourage everyone to join in observing this day and focusing upon the employment of reason, critical thinking, the scientific method, and free inquiry to the resolution of human problems and for the welfare of human kind. It is the duty and responsibility of every American to promote the development and application of reason.....snip~

Rep. Pete Stark: Celebrating Reason on the National Day of Prayer

Paschendale said:

Assuming you mean spiritual to be things of the mind, emotions, and feelings, that's fine. Reason encompasses these things as well as cold logic. But prayer is asking magic people to do favors for you.

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Some equate Prayer as to meditation.....hence your Buddhists and Vedantists.

By what right does the athiest judge the religious? By what right!

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Errr...sorry, I'm liable to get my head chopped off if I don't get out of this thread. It's ripe for trolling, the seed is strong.

But really...I have no issue with him pushing for a "national day of reason". I don't particularly have any desire for it nor see a significant need for it, but if he feels his constituents want him spending his time arguing for it more power to him. ::shrug::

Lachean said:

No, no it isn't. Its making yourself feel like you're helping when really doing nothing.

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That is completely reasonable if you never intended to do anything in the first place and are just trying to make yourself feel better. Of course some of us just masturbate and go on with life, but when your invisible ruler is watching you in case you pleasure yourself to damn you to hell for all eternity i guess you have to pleasure yourself somehow. There is a lot of reason in there, just not good reason. Perhaps the day of reason should be more specific to be the day of good reason.

MMC said:

Some equate Prayer as to meditation.....hence your Buddhists and Vedantists.

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Some might do that, but they're fundamentally different actions. Prayer is focused on the external, appealing to outside forces, like gods or spirits. Meditation is focused inward, finding strength and peace in the meditator, instead of from somewhere else. Equating them would be incorrect.

Zyphlin said:

By what right does the athiest judge the religious? By what right!

....

Errr...sorry, I'm liable to get my head chopped off if I don't get out of this thread. It's ripe for trolling, the seed is strong.

But really...I have no issue with him pushing for a "national day of reason". I don't particularly have any desire for it nor see a significant need for it, but if he feels his constituents want him spending his time arguing for it more power to him. ::shrug::

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Hear me reason! What animal would be the sigil of House Atheist? A Galapagos tortoise?

digsbe said:

And what would a "national day of reason" do? Have all the armchair intellectuals typing away on how the religious are morons and their enlightened state is saving the nation by sitting away and attacking people of faith?

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That makes a little more sense than a bunch of rednecks shouting down science based on a book they were to illiterate to read. At least the armchair intellectuals have the ability to properly understand religion to criticize it. One certainly cannot say the same for religious people having the ability to understand science no matter what prometheus told you.

digsbe said:

Prayer is more than just praying for God to intervene in the nation, it's also about seeking wisdom as to how we need to lead the nation and for our leaders. Even if you don't believe in God or think prayer is worthless it does get people focused and thinking about what is wrong in America or being concerned about the nation's well being.

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Prayer doesn't do any of that. Prayer is begging from god. It is not doing it yourself, it is asking something else to do it for you and hoping that things just fall into your lap. That is not taking personal responsibility or doing something. That is not even putting effort into begging. At least the guy on the street corner begging for your change actually has to ask a real person for money. Prayer is when you sit in your underwear in your bead and ask an imaginary being you hope is out there for something. Could you do any less? That is not a rhetorical question either, how could you possibly make any less effort to get something than prayer?

What is even better is though it does get people focused on what is wrong it leads people down the wrong path. So any effort they do spend is often making things worse off because of the idiocy inserted into the system when you start to have your imaginary friends fight for right and wrong. So not only are you doing the least amount possible, all of your real efforts to change things end up leading you the wrong way.

This is why we need the rest of the year to be the time of reason over prayer.