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Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medicine

Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Cephus said:
More like religious fanatics, this is hardly an uncommon thing. It's disgusting that we allow these people to get away with murder because it's under the umbrella of religion.
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So where does this fit in under not infringing on people's religious rights?
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

PirateMk1 said:
My personal opinion of the matter, is they should be left alone unless it can be proved beyond reasonable doubt that their actions directly lead to the death of their children ie murder or the like. If their children died simply from a result of INACTION then they should be left alone. Jailing these people does nothing. They don't believe in doctors and while most people would consider it insane not to take advantage of modern medicine they should not be forced to go against their beliefs. Further as they are the parents it is their rights to make the decisions for their children regardless OUR feelings on the matter. Right wrong or indifferent, it is NOT our place to make those judgments without taking on the corresponding responsibility and accountability. If the state or the community believes these children were in immanent danger then they should have taken action to remove the children from their parents custody.

For those who want them jailed, I ask you this, for what point? To change them? To make them repentant? They believe so much in their religion they let their own children die and are willing to defy the courts. That's more belief then most I'll wager. There's no point in jailing these people as they are not a danger to the community at large. Jailing them is petty narcissistic bull****. They should be left alone to live their lives in peace.
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Interesting! (bold) (No sarcasm)

So what if someone had a pool and saw their kid walking toward it...or a busy street....and did nothing to stop the kid....would it amount to the same thought or is this different because of their 'religious' beliefs.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Lursa said:
So where does this fit in under not infringing on people's religious rights?
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Screw religious rights. Your right to swing your religious fist ends when it impacts on someone else.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Lursa said:
So where does this fit in under not infringing on people's religious rights?
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There's no religious right to murder your children.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

So, there doesn't seem to be a way to ask a polite question and not get an angry, angst & agenda-ridden response?

Or an actual answer that explains their position?

Hmm. Damn shame.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Lursa said:
So, there doesn't seem to be a way to ask a polite question and not get an angry, angst & agenda-ridden response?

Or an actual answer that explains their position?

Hmm. Damn shame.
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BTW, in addition to the charges of negligence, this couple is also facing charges of actual abuse (ex buring with cigarettes, forcing them to eat large quantities of salt, etc)
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Lursa said:
So, there doesn't seem to be a way to ask a polite question and not get an angry, angst & agenda-ridden response?

Or an actual answer that explains their position?

Hmm. Damn shame.
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We're sorry but religion isn't a "get out of jail free" card. It doesn't allow people to violate the law. No one is telling them they can't reasonably exercise their religion, they are telling them that where their religion conflicts with the well-being of their children, their children win.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

madman said:
I hope that these parents pay for their phony religious beliefs. I mean, how can you not take your child to the doctor for medical treatment? :(
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Freedom of religion? Whos to say God didnt intend for the child to die, and would have taken him anyway.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Deuce said:
There's no religious right to murder your children.
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Murder is a legal term. If there is nothing unlawful about what happened, then its not murder.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

jonny5 said:
Freedom of religion? Whos to say God didnt intend for the child to die, and would have taken him anyway.
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If God wants your child to die, a doctor isn't going to stop him. But that's not your decision to make. You do not get to kill your child. Are you seriously advocating people try and decide what God's will is!? :lamo You're not a real Christian.

jonny5 said:
Murder is a legal term. If there is nothing unlawful about what happened, then its not murder.
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Something unlawful did happen. It's not legal to deny your children livesaving medical care.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Deuce said:
If God wants your child to die, a doctor isn't going to stop him. But that's not your decision to make. You do not get to kill your child. Are you seriously advocating people try and decide what God's will is!? :lamo You're not a real Christian.



Something unlawful did happen. It's not legal to deny your children livesaving medical care.
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Im not a Christian at all.:lamo But I respect freedom even when its not pretty.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

jonny5 said:
Im not a Christian at all.:lamo But I respect freedom even when its not pretty.
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You respect freedom to murder children. How about adults? Do you respect my freedom to kill an adult? My religion says I must.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Deuce said:
You respect freedom to murder children. How about adults? Do you respect my freedom to kill an adult? My religion says I must.
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Yes, if an adults choice not to take medical treatment is murdering themselves.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

jonny5 said:
Yes, if an adults choice not to take medical treatment is murdering themselves.
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But an adult did not make this decision for themselves. They made this decision for another person. Can I make that decision for you?
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Deuce said:
But an adult did not make this decision for themselves. They made this decision for another person. Can I make that decision for you?
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An adult does make decisions about medical treatment for themselves.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

freedumb of religion.

If I remember what I read a few years back correctly, mom can refuse to seek medical treatment even if the child dies as long as she was truly convinced God would save the child. In other words, unwavering religious belief trumps common sense.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

jonny5 said:
An adult does make decisions about medical treatment for themselves.
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Excellent, I'm glad you agree it's wrong to decide someone else gets to die for lack of medical attention.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Deuce said:
Excellent, I'm glad you agree it's wrong to decide someone else gets to die for lack of medical attention.
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I dont agree.

Bottom line is murder if the unflawful killing of another person. Killing is an active action. Letting someone die is a passive action. A person is not a murderer for not feeding, sheltering, or clothing a homeless person. Nor are they a murderer for not treating them medically.

And as to the topic, the parents did not kill their child. Nature did.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

jonny5 said:
I dont agree.

Bottom line is murder if the unflawful killing of another person. Killing is an active action. Letting someone die is a passive action. A person is not a murderer for not feeding, sheltering, or clothing a homeless person. Nor are they a murderer for not treating them medically.

And as to the topic, the parents did not kill their child. Nature did.
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It is unlawful to deny your child medical attention. They were convicted of this very thing with the first child that died.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

madman said:
I hope that these parents pay for their phony religious beliefs. I mean, how can you not take your child to the doctor for medical treatment? :(
This is their second death.



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Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medicine

PHILADELPHIA (AP) — A couple serving probation for the 2009 death of their toddler after they turned to prayer instead of a doctor could face new charges now that another son has died.
Herbert and Catherine Schaible belong to a fundamentalist Christian church that believes in faith healing. They lost their 8-month-old son, Brandon, last week after he suffered from diarrhea and breathing problems for at least a week, and stopped eating. Four years ago, another son died from bacterial pneumonia.
Prosecutors said Tuesday that a decision on charges will be made after they get the results of an autopsy.
Catherine Schaible's attorney, Mythri Jayaraman, cautioned against a rush to judgment, and said the couple are good parents deeply distraught over the loss of another child.
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OH Bull.. There is a great deal doctors can do to stop gastroenteritis in an infant.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Since I don't believe in God - I certainly do question such beliefs . . . I see it as nothing but child abuse - and people who follow such crap are psychotic imbeciles.

Nor do I care who is offended - if someone did this exact same thing without the faux religious faith then they'd be tossed in the clink for child neglect and endangerment . .. inserting a belief in a God (who apparently doesn't want you to care for your kids) doesn't amount to dick.

What kind of idiots back them up, too - "oh it's ok that they let their child starve to death - they did it for God!" . . . bull**** - no one's religious beliefs should enable them to MURDER someone. I certainly can't kill someone under some notion that God wanted me to!! What's next from some of you? "Oh - its ok, they only burned their daughter to death according to their Holy Book" . . . What the Hell?

So - those of you who have been sucked into their retardation - get the **** out of the sinkhole . . . here, I'll throw you a morality rope
 
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Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Deuce said:
It is unlawful to deny your child medical attention. They were convicted of this very thing with the first child that died.
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Were they convicted of murder?
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

Aunt Spiker said:
Since I don't believe in God - I certainly do question such beliefs . . . I see it as nothing but child abuse - and people who follow such crap are psychotic imbeciles.

Nor do I care who is offended - if someone did this exact same thing without the faux religious faith then they'd be tossed in the clink for child neglect and endangerment . .. inserting a belief in a God (who apparently doesn't want you to care for your kids) doesn't amount to dick.

What kind of idiots back them up, too - "oh it's ok that they let their child starve to death - they did it for God!" . . . bull**** - no one's religious beliefs should enable them to MURDER someone. I certainly can't kill someone under some notion that God wanted me to!! What's next from some of you? "Oh - its ok, they only burned their daughter to death according to their Holy Book" . . . What the Hell?

So - those of you who have been sucked into their retardation - get the **** out of the sinkhole . . . here, I'll throw you a morality rope
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Youve convinced me with your insults.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

jonny5 said:
Were they convicted of murder?
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No, but as a condition of their parole, they were to take their children for proper medical care regularly and to refrain from faith healing. They failed in that. Shoot them in the head.
 
Re: Catherine, Herbert Schaible's Second Child Dies After Parents Use Prayer, No Medi

jonny5 said:
Youve convinced me with your insults.
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We're just waiting for you to come up with some good reasons besides "I believe in an imaginary friend".
 
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