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Stabbing injures several on Lone Star College Cy-Fair campus

The NICS BG check system will be made so perfect as to prevent that from being a remote possibility, have you not been paying attention to the latest gun control plans in congress? ;)

Mark my words...it will happen one day. And when it does, no doubt all the gun nuts will try to justify it somehow.
 
When machetes become responsible for even 50% of homicides in America, I'll be happy to look into ways to prevent death by machete.

But a city wide law has no teeth when another city nearby allows what the first bans. That's why a NATIONAL law is necessary.

I wasn't trying to accuse you, I was simply saying that on this issue, I suppose I would fall to the left. I actually believe I fall more to the middle, because I support stricter gun control, but not outright bans of all guns.

Here's the deal about most gun owners. Most gun owners don't keep their guns for personal defense. Or, rather, they don't keep them SOLELY for personal defense. Take Alex Jones on Piers Morgan from a while back. He stated he had something like 50+ guns, is that correct? What man needs 50+ guns to protect from a home invader? None. And if the government wanted Alex Jones dead, all the legally obtainable guns in the world wouldn't protect from a missile delivered by a predator drone. And correct me if I'm wrong, but don't most gun owners like to point out that so many homicides in America are the result of gang violence?

The fact is many, if not most, gun owners collect guns as a hobby, a toy for enjoyment. They love to hunt with them, they love to shoot them at the firing range while BS'ing with their buddies, they love to show them off, etc. It's enjoyable for them, just as collecting technology (computers, TV, etc.) is for me. And there is NOTHING wrong with making guns a hobby. I have ZERO problem with that. It's not a hobby I would ever pursue, but neither is Beanie Babies, and those were mega popular for a while.

Can a gun be used in self-defense? Yes. Is part of the reason some people own a gun for self-defense? Yes. But are guns owned for far more than just self-defense? Absolutely. However, gun supporters cannot admit this. Once gun owners admit part of their brick wall defense of guns is about enjoyment, it makes their argument against banning certain types of guns impossible.

All of this is to explain where I stand on gun control. I'm in the middle. I don't mind allowing guns which are less likely to commit murder. I don't mind guns whose value exists far more on the recreational side than the shooting people side. But I also think it's silly to see what an incredible problem we have with gun deaths and think nothing should be done to curtail part of the problem. Banning certain types of guns and/or magazines is BY FAR the most logical approach. "Item A contributes to X amount of problems a year, so let's remove Item A". This is an INCREDIBLY logical step to take, and is one we take every day with all sorts of problems.

Anyways, you never asked, but that's where I stand. In what I consider to be the middle.

I have no problem with a crackdown on gang activity. The problem with this is the only way to crack down on gang activity is to pour money into these areas, and most of the same people who are against gun control are also fiscal conservatives.

I'm curious as to how many those on the left have argued with you about wanting to crack down on gang violence.

I know this is a popular misconception amongst gun supporters, but it has been confirmed by the Connecticut state police it was an "assault rifle" which was used.

[/SIZE][/FONT]http://www.ct.gov/despp/cwp/view.asp?Q=517284

In this case, the only media who has lied has been the gun media.

This is ALWAYS the hardest part about my gun control plan, how to legally get back the guns which already exist with a government that is already spending more than it brings in.

I don't have the answer to this right now.

This is certainly a very fair and very reasonable question. Which is why I think the first step is banning the purchase of future guns, to avoid escalating the cost of a future buyback program.

The government has already mandated that all, or at least some, cars which are manufactured must meet certain MPG limits. It's not any different than the government saying any gun you buy tomorrow cannot hold more than X number of rounds.


By the way, I do appreciate a quality and mature discussion on this, even though we are in disagreement.

Good post. I have a lot to discuss here but I'm at home on a Kindle Fire and it is not so good for building long posts with multiple quotes. Time to go get my gear together, we're on standby for emergency response for this big storm rolling thru. Be safe everybody. This thing stretches from Florida all the way up in to Virginia. Just got an update from NE Alabama, sounds like they got thru it with minimal damage.
 
You seem to be skilled at dodging what we say, because we make no effort to hide it:

..and that was just from a few days ago.

The primary purpose of the 2A is to defend the state from insurrection, riots and invasion. Self defense is a nice secondary benefit, as is hunting, but the primary purpose of the 2A is for the average common citizen to be able to engage in warfare.
Be prepared for some raving maniac to come in and call you a liar and dishonest. At least that is what happened when I made a similar argument.

But I was speaking more on why citizens buy guns, not the reason they are allowed to own a gun. My dad didn't buy a gun because he was ready to fight against a Chinese invasion, he bought a gun because he likes to shoot guns and he wants to make sure his home is protected. And then he bought the next gun for his wife. And then his third gun was a "just in case". And then the next several guns he purchased after that were mostly for enjoyment. I guess he figures buying and trading guns is cheaper than buying and trading cars, which is another big hobby of his.
Good post. I have a lot to discuss here but I'm at home on a Kindle Fire and it is not so good for building long posts with multiple quotes. Time to go get my gear together, we're on standby for emergency response for this big storm rolling thru. Be safe everybody. This thing stretches from Florida all the way up in to Virginia. Just got an update from NE Alabama, sounds like they got thru it with minimal damage.

You mean a 7" screen and a touch keyboard doesn't do well with long writing? :)
 
Be prepared for some raving maniac to come in and call you a liar and dishonest.
I've been on this forum for 7 years. That sort of thing doesn't phase me.

But I was speaking more on why citizens buy guns, not the reason they are allowed to own a gun. My dad didn't buy a gun because he was ready to fight against a Chinese invasion, he bought a gun because he likes to shoot guns and he wants to make sure his home is protected. And then he bought the next gun for his wife. And then his third gun was a "just in case". And then the next several guns he purchased after that were mostly for enjoyment. I guess he figures buying and trading guns is cheaper than buying and trading cars, which is another big hobby of his.
In America do we need to 'need' something in order to own it? Why do people 'need' muscle cars? Why do people 'need' private recreational aircraft? Do people 'need' video games? No. No one 'needs' any of those things.

The thing we 'need' is liberty because the more liberty a society has the more it flourishes. So go ahead an have your muscle car, so long as you aren't running people over. Have your air craft, so long as you aren't flying into buildings. Have your your video game, so long as you aren't ignoring your real-life responsibilities. Have your machine gun, so long as you aren't murdering anyone. So long as you're not harming anyone, go ahead and have whatever you want.

Maximum liberty, minimal restrictions.
 
Knife control? Time to ban knives? Or, maybe we should make it illegal for deaf people to own knives and put universal background checks and registration in place?



Looks like knives CAN be dangerous, too.

14 victims ... if he had a gun, how many would still be alive?
 
14 victims ... if he had a gun, how many would still be alive?
3 months ago there was someone with a gun in that school.

There were no fatalities. Only 2 wounded, one of whom was the shooter.

It's much easier to stab someone up close then to shoot someone at range, especially with a pistol.
 
3 months ago there was someone with a gun in that school.

There were no fatalities. Only 2 wounded, one of whom was the shooter.

It's much easier to stab someone up close then to shoot someone at range, especially with a pistol.

that may be true, but nevertheless, the ratio of murders in countries that have responsible gun laws are much lower than in the US.
 
that may be true, but nevertheless, the ratio of murders in countries that have responsible gun laws are much lower than in the US.
Well no the opposite is true:




Sources used in the video:




Harvard Study: Gun Control Is Counterproductive
Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide?
A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence.
Din B. Kates* and Gary Mauser**


The study, which just appeared in Volume 30, Number 2 of the Harvard Journal of Law & Public Policy (pp. 649-694), set out to answer the question in its title: "Would Banning Firearms Reduce Murder and Suicide? A Review of International and Some Domestic Evidence." Contrary to conventional wisdom, and the sniffs of our more sophisticated and generally anti-gun counterparts across the pond, the answer is "no." And not just no, as in there is no correlation between gun ownership and violent crime, but an emphatic no, showing a negative correlation: as gun ownership increases, murder and suicide decreases.

The findings of two criminologists - Prof. Don Kates and Prof. Gary Mauser - in their exhaustive study of American and European gun laws and violence rates, are telling:
Nations with stringent anti-gun laws generally have substantially higher murder rates than those that do not. The study found that the nine European nations with the lowest rates of gun ownership (5,000 or fewer guns per 100,000 population) have a combined murder rate three times higher than that of the nine nations with the highest rates of gun ownership (at least 15,000 guns per 100,000 population)
.


EDITORIAL: Guns decrease murder rates
In Washington, the best defense is self-defense
By THE WASHINGTON TIMES


More guns in law-abiding hands mean less crime. The District of Columbia proves the point.


<snip>
Few who lived in Washington during the 1970s can forget the upswing in crime that started right after the ban was originally passed. In the five years before the 1977 ban, the murder rate fell from 37 to 27 murders per 100,000. In the five years after the gun ban went into effect, the murder rate rose back up to 35. One fact is particularly hard to ignore: D.C.'s murder rate fluctuated after 1976 but only once fell below what it was in 1976 before the ban. That aberration happened years later, in 1985.

This correlation between the D.C. gun ban and diminished safety was not a coincidence. Look at the Windy City. Immediately after Chicago banned handguns in 1982, the murder rate, which had been falling almost continually for a decade, started to rise. Chicago's murder rate rose relative to other large cities as well. The phenomenon of higher murder rates after gun bans are passed is not just limited to the United States. Every single time a country has passed a gun ban, its murder rate soared.


<snip>

 
Turns out the economy and family integrity are the reliable predictors and controls for crime, not gun restrictions. If we control for economy and family, the armed population always has a lower crime rate then the unarmed population, but the economy has the greatest impact on lowering crime.
 
that may be true, but nevertheless, the ratio of murders in countries that have responsible gun laws are much lower than in the US.
Wasington DC had an all out gun ban. What did the murder rate do?
 
I've been on this forum for 7 years. That sort of thing doesn't phase me.
Just warning you to be prepared.

In America do we need to 'need' something in order to own it?
No, but when that something is shown to be a contributing factor is so many injuries and deaths, perhaps we should be willing to say we'll give up something we don't need to protect something we do.

The thing we 'need' is liberty because the more liberty a society has the more it flourishes.
I disagree. Freedom without guidance goes in every direction but forward.
Wasington DC had an all out gun ban. What did the murder rate do?
Why does it matter? We're talking about a national gun law, not a local one. Completely different.
 
No, but when that something is shown to be a contributing factor is so many injuries and deaths, perhaps we should be willing to say we'll give up something we don't need to protect something we do.
The presence of guns are not a contributing factor, though. No criminal is stopped because they couldn't get a gun, they simply use a different weapon. Guns do not cause crime. In fact the exact opposite is true.

If pro-gun-control wanted to have any credibility over the last 4 months, they would have lead their policies with safe storage laws and disarming the homes of the mentally unstable. However, no proposed law is addressing these. No proposed law fits any of the recent shootings.
 
The presence of guns are not a contributing factor, though. No criminal is stopped because they couldn't get a gun, they simply use a different weapon.
With 70% of the homicides involving a gun, I'm more than willing to put your theory to the test.

If pro-gun-control wanted to have any credibility over the last 4 months, they would have lead their policies with safe storage laws and disarming the homes of the mentally unstable.
I always think it's funny that those who are against disarmament always talk about disarming the mentally unstable.
 
With 70% of the homicides involving a gun, I'm more than willing to put your theory to the test.
A test which is easily passed with flying colors:

You are 24.91 times more likely to simply trip over something and die then to die by any-kind of gunshot.


National Vital Statistics Report

  • Diseases of heart....................................652,091
  • Malignant neoplasms (Cancer).....................559,312
  • Cerebrovascular diseases (Strokes)..............143,579
  • Chronic lower respiratory diseases.............130,933
  • Accidents (unintentional injuries)...................117,809
  • Diabetes mellitus .....................................75,119
  • Alzheimer’s disease ..................................71,599
  • Influenza and pneumonia ..........................63,001
  • Nephritis, nephrotic syndrome and nephritis...43,901
  • Septicemia..............................................34,136
  • Intentional self-harm (suicide)......................32,637
  • Chronic liver disease and cirrhosis................27,530
  • Hypertension and hypertensive renal disease.24,902
  • Parkinson’s disease ..................................19,544
  • Pneumonitis due to solids and liquids ............16,959
  • Simple Falling Down...................................19,656
  • Assault (homicide) by discharge of firearms.....12,352
  • Accidental discharge of Firearm.......................789
  • Suicide by Discharge of Firearms..................17,002
  • Accidental Drowning and Submersion............3,582
  • Accidental Poisoning.................................23,618
  • Motor Vehicle Accidents............................45,343
  • Non-Transport Accidents...........................69,368
 
A test which is easily passed with flying colors:

You are 24.91 times more likely to simply trip over something and die then to die by any-kind of gunshot.

And I think everyone favors finding ways to avoid all of those things. *shrug*

Is there anything on that list above guns we don't actively try to prevent?
 
And I think everyone favors finding ways to avoid all of those things. *shrug*

Is there anything on that list above guns we don't actively try to prevent?
For everything on that list, we disregard failed methods in favor of those methods which work...until it comes to assult, then people like you insist we keep doing the same things which have always failed every time they've been tried before. It's as though you want to treat heart disease with leaches instead of modern medicine.

We've don the whole gun-control thing many times before. It makes the problem worse every time we try it. Every other country on the planet experiences the same result. Honestly talking to anti-gun is like trying to convince a creationist the world really is older than 7,000 years. Your faith blinds you from the facts.
 
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For everything on that list, we disregard failed methods in favor of those methods which work...until it comes to assult, then people like you insist we keep doing the same things which have always failed every time they've been tried before. It's as though you want to treat heart disease with leaches instead of modern medicine.

We've don the whole gun-control thing many times before. It makes the problem worse every time we try it. Every other country on the planet experiences the same result. Honestly talking to anti-gun is like trying to convince a creationist the world really is older than 7,000 years. Your faith blinds you from the facts.

you are making stuff up.

In the 18 years before the gun law reforms, there were 13 mass shootings in Australia, and none in the 10.5 years afterwards. Declines in firearm-related deaths before the law reforms accelerated after the reforms for total firearm deaths (p = 0.04), firearm suicides (p = 0.007) and firearm homicides (p = 0.15), but not for the smallest category of unintentional firearm deaths, which increased. No evidence of substitution effect for suicides or homicides was observed. The rates per 100,000 of total firearm deaths, firearm homicides and firearm suicides all at least doubled their existing rates of decline after the revised gun laws.
Australia's 1996 gun law reforms: faster falls in f... [Inj Prev. 2006] - PubMed - NCBI
 
Wasington DC had an all out gun ban. What did the murder rate do?

perhaps the problem isn't guns ... perhaps the problem is that americans are more prone to violence ... 5.22 murders per 100,000 compared to 1.23 ....
 
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