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TSA agents 'humiliated' wounded Marine with aggressive inspection: report

This was a report that began under the Bush administration before Janet Napolitano even served as HSS. The best of your knowledge isn't very good apparently. At no point has she ever called them a primary threat. Please source a direct quote if you'd like to continue that argument.

Under the Bush administration, there was a recognition that PTSD could be a problem. To address that problem would require an approach that smacks of profiling, which is anathema to liberals and especially the Anarchist Criminal Libertines Union (ACLU). Hence Big Sis, as a good liberal, broadened the perceived threat to all veterans. It's basically the same model as the gun control nuts use: criminals with guns are a problem, so let's disarm the law-abiding public.
 
If agents were standing by not choosing to stand up and help the man, that's rather sad on them and their general moral fiber. If the screener in question had any latitude to make a judgement call on what additional screening, if any, was needed on the Marine (as that power has been expanding in recent years) and choose to not excersice, then that's a problem that needs to be looked into fo ran answer of "Why?". If the screener simply didn't follow procedures he needs action taken against him. Situations like this is exactly why TSA should, and is, continuing to move in the direction of risk based security aimed at balancing realistic treatment of the public with necessary security measures. This situation is a sad and unfortunate one and I feel for the marine.

With all this said, the gross over generalizations, sensationalism, and group think going on around this...not surprisingly by some of the very people who are quick to scream if an individual with some connection to their job/ideology/interests causes a broadscale attack against said category...is ridiculous. On average, a little over 2 million people go through TSA screening every day. Even with these kind of stories creating wonderful sensationalized headlines that play into a standard template that's been pounded into the publics head for years about the "inept/over reaching" TSA, they are still an EXTREMELY small percentage of what occurs in a TSA check point. The reality is this guy was 0.00005% of the total flying public that day and yet you have people on this thread trying to create the impression that somehow this guys situation is the norm. It's just factually not the case.
 
Under the Bush administration, there was a recognition that PTSD could be a problem. To address that problem would require an approach that smacks of profiling, which is anathema to liberals and especially the Anarchist Criminal Libertines Union (ACLU). Hence Big Sis, as a good liberal, broadened the perceived threat to all veterans. It's basically the same model as the gun control nuts use: criminals with guns are a problem, so let's disarm the law-abiding public.

She never broadened anything. Find me a source coming from the Obama administration that says anything resembling "all vets are to be considered a primary threat"

You won't find it, and that's what we need in debates. Evidence and facts, not witty little names that you come up.
 
I bet hes wondering exactly what the hell he sacrificed his legs for right about now. Sorta seems like the terrorists won in the end to me. But that's just a personal opinion.

Just looking at things from a personal liberty and financial standpoint I would have to agree.
 
She never broadened anything. Find me a source coming from the Obama administration that says anything resembling "all vets are to be considered a primary threat"

You won't find it, and that's what we need in debates. Evidence and facts, not witty little names that you come up.

Napolitano stands by controversial report - Washington Times

OUTRAGEOUS: Veterans receiving letters prohibiting the purchase, possession, receipt, or transport of a firearm/ammunition... | RedFlagNews.com

This is being a bit misharacterized, and you a purposefully asking for something that you know not only doesn't exist, but couldn't be produced for you in order to win a debate. The report that Napoliano initially supported, and later somewhat apologized for, did mischaracterize veterans as potential candidates for extremist groups. They found this offensive, and rightly so. The fact that she had to apologize only supports the veterans' claim. The only purpose of this tangent is to demonstrate that it is possible that returning military are being looked at with increased scrutiny.....something the Left considered profiling when in came to people from the ME during the Bush Administration.
 
This is being a bit misharacterized, and you a purposefully asking for something that you know not only doesn't exist, but couldn't be produced for you in order to win a debate.

I am asking for evidence that something was said, after a poster claimed it was said. I didn't come up with the term "primary threat". The memo only pointed out that military members are recruiting targets of extremist groups, and at no point did the memo even insinuate that veterans are terrorists or any other nonsense.
 
There is no excuse for not treating this soldier with the utmost respect. They should be fired. When, to protect everyone's safety, people are treated as criminals, we've missed the boat. Shame on 'em.

Hey the people got what they wanted. "Protection" from the bad guys. They traded their freedom for "security". It sucks for the Marine. He should sue and make a bit of cash. People shout outrage about this stuff. Well it comes with the territory. They dont like it then they need to fire the TSA. Otherwise they be whining over a problem brought about by themselves and they themselves are to blaim for allowing it to continue.

I feel bad for the Marine, but really, he needs to find another mode of travel if doesnt like being treated like dirt. That same could be said to everyone else.
 
If agents were standing by not choosing to stand up and help the man, that's rather sad on them and their general moral fiber. If the screener in question had any latitude to make a judgement call on what additional screening, if any, was needed on the Marine (as that power has been expanding in recent years) and choose to not excersice, then that's a problem that needs to be looked into fo ran answer of "Why?". If the screener simply didn't follow procedures he needs action taken against him. Situations like this is exactly why TSA should, and is, continuing to move in the direction of risk based security aimed at balancing realistic treatment of the public with necessary security measures. This situation is a sad and unfortunate one and I feel for the marine.

With all this said, the gross over generalizations, sensationalism, and group think going on around this...not surprisingly by some of the very people who are quick to scream if an individual with some connection to their job/ideology/interests causes a broadscale attack against said category...is ridiculous. On average, a little over 2 million people go through TSA screening every day. Even with these kind of stories creating wonderful sensationalized headlines that play into a standard template that's been pounded into the publics head for years about the "inept/over reaching" TSA, they are still an EXTREMELY small percentage of what occurs in a TSA check point. The reality is this guy was 0.00005% of the total flying public that day and yet you have people on this thread trying to create the impression that somehow this guys situation is the norm. It's just factually not the case.

The TSA is LESS than useless IMO. I have always thought so. They dont protect anything, and are at best a nusence.
 
Hey the people got what they wanted. "Protection" from the bad guys. They traded their freedom for "security". It sucks for the Marine. He should sue and make a bit of cash. People shout outrage about this stuff. Well it comes with the territory. They dont like it then they need to fire the TSA. Otherwise they be whining over a problem brought about by themselves and they themselves are to blaim for allowing it to continue.

I feel bad for the Marine, but really, he needs to find another mode of travel if doesnt like being treated like dirt. That same could be said to everyone else.

The reason we have a TSA is to make American citizens feel safe on airplanes. That's of paramount importance to our economy. When it was created, it was very important to ensure just that. I don't mind that they do their jobs, but but BUT!! they need to be better trained. They should be trained to HELP, trained to apologize for the inconvenience, and not forget they are servants of the people.
 
The reason we have a TSA is to make American citizens feel safe on airplanes. That's of paramount importance to our economy. When it was created, it was very important to ensure just that. I don't mind that they do their jobs, but but BUT!! they need to be better trained. They should be trained to HELP, trained to apologize for the inconvenience, and not forget they are servants of the people.

Maggie you and I disagree profoundly. I personally detest the very idea of the TSA. The people who caused them to be created won. Quite frankly the TSA is a waste of time and money. Do you really think that planes are going to be taken over without a fight now? 19 men with box cutters performed a brilliant audacous surprise attack. It is not repeatable, with or without the TSA. Hijacking a plane succesfully is much lower now than before no matter how well armed the hijackers are.

If you want to feel safe from those who would do us harm, then the US policy should be ruthless and merciless towards terrorists and those who support them. No warning, no mercy. You want to be safe. Hang every one in GITMO. Publicly. Leave no doubt in the minds of your enemies you are a complete and utter bastard NOT to be trifled with.
 
Maggie you and I disagree profoundly. I personally detest the very idea of the TSA. The people who caused them to be created won. Quite frankly the TSA is a waste of time and money. Do you really think that planes are going to be taken over without a fight now? 19 men with box cutters performed a brilliant audacous surprise attack. It is not repeatable, with or without the TSA. Hijacking a plane succesfully is much lower now than before no matter how well armed the hijackers are.

If you want to feel safe from those who would do us harm, then the US policy should be ruthless and merciless towards terrorists and those who support them. No warning, no mercy. You want to be safe. Hang every one in GITMO. Publicly. Leave no doubt in the minds of your enemies you are a complete and utter bastard NOT to be trifled with.

I completely respect your opinion on all counts. On the one hand, I wish we could be that ruthless country that took the stance on terrorists that you describe. On the other? I don't want to live in that country. So we do the best we can.

I also agree that it's unlikely small arms are going to take over an airplane -- or that any arms will, really. And I think we're moving closer to that realization as evidenced by the recent change in allowing small knives aboard. Maybe soon they'll go back to looking for explosives and guns -- things that can take a plane down.

In the meantime, however, these TSA agents need to be better trained. People need to be completely respected while they're undergoing the process. Agents should be helpful. They should be apologetic. They should be saying things like, "I am so sorry! But it's my job." They should be quietly and respectfully leading people into private areas where they can be respectfully checked out. 99.9999% of these people go through the procedure and no action at all is taken.

They are citizens of the United States of America. These people work for them. Their training and supervision programs must be atrocious for them to have treated this soldier the way they did.
 
Why is this a story? Are there people out there who think government workers are apt to apply common sense?

I can imagine why the TSA did this. They're probably more likely to get fired for not doing this as opposed to doing it.

Welcome to the government. Bush basically just treated DHS as an extension of the Patriot Act to get into everyone's business.
 
Many of the people complaining here are the same people who dismiss the way our justice system treats the wrongly accused/convicted. It's a small price to pay for the certainty of our overall safety, blah blah blah. We either want to go overboard to grab some safety, or we don't.

Disclaimer: No, I don't approve of this, just pointing out some people's double-standards.
 
In the meantime, however, these TSA agents need to be better trained. People need to be completely respected while they're undergoing the process. Agents should be helpful. They should be apologetic. They should be saying things like, "I am so sorry! But it's my job." They should be quietly and respectfully leading people into private areas where they can be respectfully checked out. 99.9999% of these people go through the procedure and no action at all is taken.

As an interesting note, starting last year TSA began a massive reorganization and transformation period. It hit it's 10 year anniversary and proceeded to begin a process of evaluating all it's various offices. The thing to remember with TSA is, unlike MANY of the agencies in the US, it's a relative baby. An organization made up of disparate parts of many other organizations, spun up in weeks/months and only just recently hitting a decade in terms of it's age. There's still a lot of bugs to be worked out and tweaks to be made in terms of making it run as efficient as possible (relative to any government agency running "efficiently).

One of the things involved in that reorganization was the creation of the Office of Training and Workforce Engagement. An offiec largely aimed at streamlining and standardizing training that occured within TSA. A lot of the training previously had guidance from a headquarters stand point but had a lot of of reliance on the individual airports training staff in terms of how things worked. The new office has been looking at ways to improve training, create a more standardized and unified form of training, find better ways to monitor and test for quality training results, and other such things.

Part of the process was looking at the best practices put into play by one TSA office which had it's own in house training division, and whose workforce was exceptionally well training. The new Assistant Administrator of OTWE is actually the former Deputy Assistant Administrator of the office in question. Many of the leadership in the new Office of Training also came from that office. So there's definitely a desire, focus, and action within TSA to improve Training across the entire organization.

The other thing that's being done...again, actually borrowing from a program that was done successfully in a particular office of TSA....is attempting to roll out a program over the entire organization aimed at improving and reshaping the culture within the agency in terms of accountability, focus on the mission, and workforce empowerment. It takes some time for corporate cultures to be changed and for those changes to infiltrate all levels, but over the few years since the program was done in the individual office there has been noticed improvements, and hopefully a similar trajectory is seen when implimented agency wide.
 
As an interesting note, starting last year TSA began a massive reorganization and transformation period. It hit it's 10 year anniversary and proceeded to begin a process of evaluating all it's various offices. The thing to remember with TSA is, unlike MANY of the agencies in the US, it's a relative baby. An organization made up of disparate parts of many other organizations, spun up in weeks/months and only just recently hitting a decade in terms of it's age. There's still a lot of bugs to be worked out and tweaks to be made in terms of making it run as efficient as possible (relative to any government agency running "efficiently).

One of the things involved in that reorganization was the creation of the Office of Training and Workforce Engagement. An offiec largely aimed at streamlining and standardizing training that occured within TSA. A lot of the training previously had guidance from a headquarters stand point but had a lot of of reliance on the individual airports training staff in terms of how things worked. The new office has been looking at ways to improve training, create a more standardized and unified form of training, find better ways to monitor and test for quality training results, and other such things.

Part of the process was looking at the best practices put into play by one TSA office which had it's own in house training division, and whose workforce was exceptionally well training. The new Assistant Administrator of OTWE is actually the former Deputy Assistant Administrator of the office in question. Many of the leadership in the new Office of Training also came from that office. So there's definitely a desire, focus, and action within TSA to improve Training across the entire organization.

The other thing that's being done...again, actually borrowing from a program that was done successfully in a particular office of TSA....is attempting to roll out a program over the entire organization aimed at improving and reshaping the culture within the agency in terms of accountability, focus on the mission, and workforce empowerment. It takes some time for corporate cultures to be changed and for those changes to infiltrate all levels, but over the few years since the program was done in the individual office there has been noticed improvements, and hopefully a similar trajectory is seen when implimented agency wide.
I can't buy this as a reason. The department itself may be young. Lessons learned from enforcement and dealing with people are decades old and well-known.
 
Out of the many overinflated, ill-conceived, and ineffective government agencies, the TSA is one of the most incompetent. Its staff, especially in this instance, acted not out of concern for the security of American citizens, but rather because of the control the individuals had to humiliate and inconvenience unsuspecting passengers. In other words, it was a powertrip. These pathetic individuals should immediately lose their jobs, and then suffer humiliation themselves at the hands of other Marines. There is no excuse for treating our veterans with such disrespect.
 
Out of the many overinflated, ill-conceived, and ineffective government agencies, the TSA is one of the most incompetent. Its staff, especially in this instance, acted not out of concern for the security of American citizens, but rather because of the control the individuals had to humiliate and inconvenience unsuspecting passengers. In other words, it was a powertrip. These pathetic individuals should immediately lose their jobs, and then suffer humiliation themselves at the hands of other Marines. There is no excuse for treating our veterans with such disrespect.

Agreed. Perhaps these TSA agents should be sent to a Marine base for a couple of weeks of sensitivity training... :mrgreen:
 
Why is this a story? Are there people out there who think government workers are apt to apply common sense?

I can imagine why the TSA did this. They're probably more likely to get fired for not doing this as opposed to doing it.

Welcome to the government. Bush basically just treated DHS as an extension of the Patriot Act to get into everyone's business.

TSA screeners aren't granted much in the way of discretion. There was a period where they were confiscating a style of car keys that was popular among luxury vehicles, those roundish ones that flip out "switchblade style." The rules said they had to confiscate "switchblade style" things, so they did. These BMW/Audi/Lexus/etc keys were literally less dangerous than a typical house key, because they were rounded laser-cut keys and their flip-out mechanism meant they didn't have a sturdy attachment to the base, but the random TSA grunt you met didn't have the option to let it through. They don't tell these guys "well as long as you really really think it's ok to let ___ through, go ahead." They have procedures that are to be followed without error, because error could theoretically mean disaster.

It's stupid, it's intrusive, and it's all a grand theater to make us feel safer without actually making us safer, but none of that is the fault of the poor idiot at the security line. He didn't make the rules, but he can be fired if he doesn't follow them.
 
It's stupid, it's intrusive, and it's all a grand theater to make us feel safer without actually making us safer, but none of that is the fault of the poor idiot at the security line. He didn't make the rules, but he can be fired if he doesn't follow them.

Mindless bureaucrats are a boil on the butt of humanity.
 
As an interesting note, starting last year TSA began a massive reorganization and transformation period. It hit it's 10 year anniversary and proceeded to begin a process of evaluating all it's various offices. The thing to remember with TSA is, unlike MANY of the agencies in the US, it's a relative baby. An organization made up of disparate parts of many other organizations, spun up in weeks/months and only just recently hitting a decade in terms of it's age. There's still a lot of bugs to be worked out and tweaks to be made in terms of making it run as efficient as possible (relative to any government agency running "efficiently).

One of the things involved in that reorganization was the creation of the Office of Training and Workforce Engagement. An offiec largely aimed at streamlining and standardizing training that occured within TSA. A lot of the training previously had guidance from a headquarters stand point but had a lot of of reliance on the individual airports training staff in terms of how things worked. The new office has been looking at ways to improve training, create a more standardized and unified form of training, find better ways to monitor and test for quality training results, and other such things.

Part of the process was looking at the best practices put into play by one TSA office which had it's own in house training division, and whose workforce was exceptionally well training. The new Assistant Administrator of OTWE is actually the former Deputy Assistant Administrator of the office in question. Many of the leadership in the new Office of Training also came from that office. So there's definitely a desire, focus, and action within TSA to improve Training across the entire organization.

The other thing that's being done...again, actually borrowing from a program that was done successfully in a particular office of TSA....is attempting to roll out a program over the entire organization aimed at improving and reshaping the culture within the agency in terms of accountability, focus on the mission, and workforce empowerment. It takes some time for corporate cultures to be changed and for those changes to infiltrate all levels, but over the few years since the program was done in the individual office there has been noticed improvements, and hopefully a similar trajectory is seen when implimented agency wide.

The Isrealis have been doing this for DECADES. We had a model that we could have used. We didnt. The TSA is just NOW figuring out feeling up granny dont accomplish jack? Gee I feel safer already. Please these bastards need to fired and the dept disbanded. Let the airlines take care of their own security like the rest of the transportation industry.
 
The reason we have a TSA is to make American citizens feel safe on airplanes. That's of paramount importance to our economy. When it was created, it was very important to ensure just that. I don't mind that they do their jobs, but but BUT!! they need to be better trained. They should be trained to HELP, trained to apologize for the inconvenience, and not forget they are servants of the people.

Maybe its because I'm employed in the private industry (security field),,, I would never consider my job to be the "servants of the people." Security shouldn't be nice, they shouldn't apologize and they should not make exceptions. If they were all those things they would be crappy security. Heck, we use third party security (from a company standpoint), not just out of liability but so that they can be utterly objective on security threats etc. Security is not convenient. With a military background the marine in this case should be well aware of this.
 
The Isrealis have been doing this for DECADES. We had a model that we could have used.

No offense, but this is simply a statement born out of ignorance. What it fails to understand is:

1) The issue of scale
2) The differences in laws and the legal system between the two countries
3) The mentality of the population

Israel does not equal the United States. They are incredibly different circumstances. Israel is a model that should be studied for what things can be borrowed, tweaked, or learned. For example, the implimentation over recent years of the Behavior Detection Officer, which is a trained TSO that studies body language and actions within a line to look for individuals that may exhibit behavioral signs that suggest they should go through greater levels of screening. But it is not one that we can directly implement. For example, In terms of scale, Israel's busiest airport has about 13 million passengers per year. Meanwhile, JFK has nearly three times that in a year by itself. And there are 23 other Airports of a similar designation in terms of size as JFK in the United states. Asking for Airport Security to be done in the US in the same model as Israel's is like asking for New York City's police force to be handled the same way as the Sheriff department of the 431 population town of Troutville Virginia.
 
TSA screeners aren't granted much in the way of discretion. There was a period where they were confiscating a style of car keys that was popular among luxury vehicles, those roundish ones that flip out "switchblade style." The rules said they had to confiscate "switchblade style" things, so they did. These BMW/Audi/Lexus/etc keys were literally less dangerous than a typical house key, because they were rounded laser-cut keys and their flip-out mechanism meant they didn't have a sturdy attachment to the base, but the random TSA grunt you met didn't have the option to let it through. They don't tell these guys "well as long as you really really think it's ok to let ___ through, go ahead." They have procedures that are to be followed without error, because error could theoretically mean disaster.

It's stupid, it's intrusive, and it's all a grand theater to make us feel safer without actually making us safer, but none of that is the fault of the poor idiot at the security line. He didn't make the rules, but he can be fired if he doesn't follow them.
Warning: Hysterical :2mad: forthcoming...

I read this after you first posted it and I have to come back to rant. I mean, WTF?!? They're car keys! How the eff are people supposed to start their car when they return? This is an off-shoot of that "zero tolerance" crap that we need to eliminate from our societal mindset. Zero thinking is more like it. THINK, PEOPLE!!!

I'm sorry, but this one got to me. I had to get it off my chest.
 
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