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Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

And the "anti-gun" argument is that "If a Dr's professional opinion is that it's prudent to do so, he should ask about a patient's access to firearms?"

Is there some reason why we want to micromanage Drs? Have they abused their ability to ask us about our firearms over the last couple of centuries? What harm has come of it?
Typical. That's NOT what is happening. The change is not an opposition to a doctors standard practice...it is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions...questions ABSOLUTELY unrelated to medical needs. But then...Im SURE you advocate that doctor prying into every detail of your life, right? Or backdooring their way into your life by interrogating your kids. You aren't just pro interrogation on gun ownership...you are pro interrogation on diet, meal choices, exercise, excessive TV, leaving children unattended, does your mommy or daddy text while driving? Use a cell phone (Do you know how many die from that horrible combination?)? Does daddy have a boyfriend that mommy doesn't know about-he is putting mommy at risk! Does mommy or daddy leave cleaning supplies under the sink? Oh...the list of 'dangerous' behaviors is endless. And of course...Im SURE you advocate for ALL of them and not JUST interrogation on guns. Why...if you did...that would be COMPLETELY hypocritical.
 
Typical. That's NOT what is happening. The change is not an opposition to a doctors standard practice...it is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions...questions ABSOLUTELY unrelated to medical needs. But then...Im SURE you advocate that doctor prying into every detail of your life, right? Or backdooring their way into your life by interrogating your kids. You aren't just pro interrogation on gun ownership...you are pro interrogation on diet, meal choices, exercise, excessive TV, leaving children unattended, does your mommy or daddy text while driving? Use a cell phone (Do you know how many die from that horrible combination?)? Does daddy have a boyfriend that mommy doesn't know about-he is putting mommy at risk! Does mommy or daddy leave cleaning supplies under the sink? Oh...the list of 'dangerous' behaviors is endless. And of course...Im SURE you advocate for ALL of them and not JUST interrogation on guns. Why...if you did...that would be COMPLETELY hypocritical.

You're over reacting. The ONLY change that I see is that it suggests that doctors routinely ask about guns if there are small children in the house. It's a dumb question... unless there is justification, but there is no law that gives this suggestion any bite. It's a suggestion only. Beyond that, if you read the language of what was in the OP, pretty much everything else is about questioning a patient based on the doctor's assessment of their potential for risk. You and I work in the same field and, I would imagine, do this frequently. In fact, I just did it 30 minutes ago. This has been SOP for a long time and will continue to be.
 
You're over reacting. The ONLY change that I see is that it suggests that doctors routinely ask about guns if there are small children in the house. It's a dumb question... unless there is justification, but there is no law that gives this suggestion any bite. It's a suggestion only. Beyond that, if you read the language of what was in the OP, pretty much everything else is about questioning a patient based on the doctor's assessment of their potential for risk. You and I work in the same field and, I would imagine, do this frequently. In fact, I just did it 30 minutes ago. This has been SOP for a long time and will continue to be.
I posted quotes and cites earlier in this thread where AMA and APA representatives talked about how it was the 'right' thing to do to query children about guns in the homes. No... I don't believe the vast majority of doctors will do this and as I have said, twice now, where patients are suicidal or expressing extreme depression it is NOT an inappropriate question for a doctor to ask. Proposing it or advocating it as a matter of course? Inappropriate at least.
 
I posted quotes and cites earlier in this thread where AMA and APA representatives talked about how it was the 'right' thing to do to query children about guns in the homes. No... I don't believe the vast majority of doctors will do this and as I have said, twice now, where patients are suicidal or expressing extreme depression it is NOT an inappropriate question for a doctor to ask. Proposing it or advocating it as a matter of course? Inappropriate at least.

I would agree, but I'm not seeing anything other than a silly suggestion that most are going to ignore. I read an article online, recently, that discussed that most health care providers have no intention of following this suggestion and will continue to do what they are doing.
 
I would agree, but I'm not seeing anything other than a silly suggestion that most are going to ignore. I read an article online, recently, that discussed that most health care providers have no intention of following this suggestion and will continue to do what they are doing.
That MAY be the thing that annoys me the most. MOST of the round of Exec Orders were just that. Irrelevant silly suggestions designed only to give the pretense that something is being done about violent crime. No...the doctors I know aren't going to be bothered with this. As the med associations continue to promote the community health models they may develop questionnaires that their administrators will read, review, and then god forbid should a bunch of 19 year olds begin to start lecturing people about gun ownership or gun safety.

In our world...it is a very COMMON line of questioning, but again...we aren't seeing people with shingles or pain in their left abdomen.
 
Typical. That's NOT what is happening. The change is not an opposition to a doctors standard practice...it is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions...questions ABSOLUTELY unrelated to medical needs.
I have not heard that anywhere but in your post. Can you quote the language of the "change"?
The language which asks Drs to change their practice?
Also, I would ask, under what authority would a Dr face consequences for failing to change how he practices medicine?

But then...Im SURE you advocate that doctor prying into every detail of your life, right? Or backdooring their way into your life by interrogating your kids.
Well, I am not surprised that you would think such of me. But, I have grown accustomed to you being wrong. So continuing to be wrong--this time about me and what I think--comes as no surprise I s'pose.
You aren't just pro interrogation on gun ownership...
In case it wasn't clearly stated enough, I am not. But, don't let facts get the way now when they don't appear to have been stopping you before.

...you are pro interrogation on diet, meal choices, exercise...
And you find these issues to be beyond the purview of your physician?

...excessive TV, leaving children unattended, does your mommy or daddy text while driving? Use a cell phone (Do you know how many die from that horrible combination?)? Does daddy have a boyfriend that mommy doesn't know about-he is putting mommy at risk! Does mommy or daddy leave cleaning supplies under the sink? Oh...the list of 'dangerous' behaviors is endless. And of course...Im SURE you advocate for ALL of them and not JUST interrogation on guns. Why...if you did...that would be COMPLETELY hypocritical.
I think you have gone quite round the bend with your strange assumptions about me.
Not gonna try and stop you or correct you. Just letting you know. fwiw.

Anyway, back to the topic at hand, since Drs have been able to ask us about our firearms since the dawn of America, how is it we have not suffered from this heinous ability of our physicians to ask us questions?
Why is it that it has taken us more than 200 years to wake up to the grave danger?
 
here's the text for you to quote from Vance,

http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/wh_now_is_the_time_full.pdf

Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety:
Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.
Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions.
The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.


Please quote and underline the language which "is an attempt to have doctors change THEIR practices to ask more questions"

Whenever you get ready.
 
MD's are now law enforcement.

I can't wait until our medical records are public... of course... for the good of the nation.

I've got mixed feelings about this. I'm not that opposed to the mental doctors alerting LEO is there is a potential threat to the person or the community. However, that is not what this EO says.

I am opposed to medical professionals (the EO does not single out doctors, only medical professional professionals) to taking my time to lecture me on gun safety. In addition, many medical professionals, like many in the public sector, look at any one who owns a firearm as mentally unstable, and the fear of over reach is real.

I also would expect that a medical professionas whol get it wrong and fail to notify, or notifies in error, are laying themselves wide open to lawsuits.
 
Ha! Obama's alternate universe.

The doctors that I've picked out just by random chance, all seem to be armed to the teeth. And they have the money to buy the most expensive guns available.

Have to wonder if Obama actually think Doctors like and respect him.

Does anybody respect him?
 
I personally will not tell any doctor that I own a firearm. More likely I would say no. It isn't a felony to lie to a doctor, and the information isn't relevant to my health. My GP knows me and knows safety runs in my blood anyway. He would never lecture me on firearms.
 
You're over reacting. The ONLY change that I see is that it suggests that doctors routinely ask about guns if there are small children in the house. It's a dumb question... unless there is justification, but there is no law that gives this suggestion any bite. It's a suggestion only. Beyond that, if you read the language of what was in the OP, pretty much everything else is about questioning a patient based on the doctor's assessment of their potential for risk. You and I work in the same field and, I would imagine, do this frequently. In fact, I just did it 30 minutes ago. This has been SOP for a long time and will continue to be.

With all due respect CC you are a psychologist correct? Isn't it sorta your job to ask questions like that in certain situations? You may be titled a doctor but you are just a doctor of the mind. This thing with Obama includes doctors of the body. Who have no buisness asking that question unless they suspect the person is mentally unstable. And even then they should call in people like you to determine the persons sanity.

As for asking children. Don't you kind of find that asking that question to children just because the person has children morally dispicable?
 
This thing with Obama includes doctors of the body. Who have no buisness asking that question unless they suspect the person is mentally unstable.
And you think that Drs don't know their business?
They have had the ability to ask you these sorts of questions all along.
W/e evil that will come of it has already happened.
 
And you think that Drs don't know their business?
They have had the ability to ask you these sorts of questions all along.
W/e evil that will come of it has already happened.

There is a difference in my eye of the doctors already having this ability and the President of the United States asking them to do it knowing that they can already do it. That to me shows that perhaps, for Obama at least, he is wanting to make it a law that they ask where as right now it is just a "if you think of it or if you think its necessary" general rule.
 
There is a difference in my eye of the doctors already having this ability and the President of the United States asking them to do it knowing that they can already do it.
While I can appreciate the difference, it doesn't seem that Obama actually did ask them to do it.
Further, even if he did, it'd still just be Obama asking, it would have not weight of regulation nor law.


http://www.whitehouse.gov/sites/default/files/docs/wh_now_is_the_time_full.pdf


Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety:​
Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.​
Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions.​
The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.​


See? No asking Drs anything there.
So it is still up to Drs to make the determination as to whether or not they wish to ask you about firearms, same as always.
 
With all due respect CC you are a psychologist correct? Isn't it sorta your job to ask questions like that in certain situations? You may be titled a doctor but you are just a doctor of the mind. This thing with Obama includes doctors of the body. Who have no buisness asking that question unless they suspect the person is mentally unstable. And even then they should call in people like you to determine the persons sanity.

Most physicians... if not ALL have had a rotation in psychiatry, so they have at least the basic training in order to assess for harm. And I agree... these kinds of questions should only be asked in situations of risk assessment. Standard situations, they should not.

As for asking children. Don't you kind of find that asking that question to children just because the person has children morally dispicable?

I'm not sure that I understand your question. Can you restate it?
 
With all due respect CC you are a psychologist correct? Isn't it sorta your job to ask questions like that in certain situations? You may be titled a doctor but you are just a doctor of the mind. This thing with Obama includes doctors of the body. Who have no buisness asking that question unless they suspect the person is mentally unstable. And even then they should call in people like you to determine the persons sanity.

As for asking children. Don't you kind of find that asking that question to children just because the person has children morally dispicable?

What exactly do you mean by "just" a doctor of the mind?
 
I'm not sure that I understand your question. Can you restate it?

They want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes, particularly if the parent that brought them in indicates that there are guns in the home. Do you think that is morally right? Should it be allowed? Note that I'm not talking about mentally disturbed people, i'm talking about normal, non-criminal, sane people.

What exactly do you mean by "just" a doctor of the mind?

I'm not sure I understand your question. A phsycologist helps mentally disturbed people. That is in essence a "doctor of the mind". Or are you taking offense at the word "just" since you put quotations around it? If so please know that no offense was meant.
 
They want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes, particularly if the parent that brought them in indicates that there are guns in the home. Do you think that is morally right? Should it be allowed? Note that I'm not talking about mentally disturbed people, i'm talking about normal, non-criminal, sane people.



I'm not sure I understand your question. A phsycologist helps mentally disturbed people. That is in essence a "doctor of the mind". Or are you taking offense at the word "just" since you put quotations around it? If so please know that no offense was meant.
No offense taken...just seeking clarification. When it comes to matters of the mind, most medical doctors I know defer to 'mind' doctors quick fast and in a hurry.

I agree that where there is a known or suspected imminent risk it is valid for MDs to ask the question. Otherwise, completely inappropriate.
 
MD's are now law enforcement.

I can't wait until our medical records are public... of course... for the good of the nation.

You're misreading what it says.

If a Doctor encounters a patient that he reasonably believes to be dangerous, then that Doctor should know there are no federal laws preventing him from notifying police.

Why would anyone have a problem with his? I think it should be mandatory -- under certain circumstances, when a doctor encounters someone exhibiting any symptoms indicating a dangerous detachment from reality, then that doctor should immediately notify police -- but this can only be implemented at the state level.

Why doctors? Sick people come to see doctors, and any doctor, not just a psychiatrist can meet with a patient who might confide in him with dangerous thoughts or delusional ideas.

If a doctor makes a false report to police, then he would be subject to state law re: make false reports.
 
They want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes...
cite for this desire, please.

Note that I'm not talking about mentally disturbed people, i'm talking about normal, non-criminal, sane people.
I note that you are. But the issue seems to be that Obama isn't saying what you're saying he's saying. So no matter what you're talking about, the issue is what Obama talked about.
 
You're misreading what it says.
This is obviously true for several posters.
That's why they cannot point to the text which supports their assertions--such text does not exist.
But, what's is fascinating to me is their conduct in light of the absence of evidence for their assertions. Very interesting phenomena imho.
 
MD's are now law enforcement.

I can't wait until our medical records are public... of course... for the good of the nation.

Actually, The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Obamacare) gives the federal government the right to view every American's medical record. Anyone who answers this question with anything other than, "None of your business" is telling the federal government that there are or are not guns in their home.
 
cite for this desire, please.

I note that you are. But the issue seems to be that Obama isn't saying what you're saying he's saying. So no matter what you're talking about, the issue is what Obama talked about.

I've already cited it. It came from the OP's quotes.
 
I've already cited it. It came from the OP's quotes.
The Op quoted the Weekly Standard--not exactly where one goes to find out what Obama actually said...ever,

Care to underline the relevant language?


PRESERVE THE RIGHTS OF HEALTH CARE PROVIDERS TO PROTECT THEIR PATIENTS AND COMMUNITIES FROM GUN VIOLENCE: We should never ask doctors and other health care providers to turn a blind eye to the risks posed by guns in the wrong hands.


 Clarify that no federal law prevents health care providers from warning law enforcement authorities about threats of violence: Doctors and other mental health professionals play an important role in protecting the safety of their patients and the broader community by reporting direct and credible threats of violence to the authorities. But there is public confusion about whether federal law prohibits such reports about threats of violence. The Department of Health and Human Services is issuing a letter to health care providers clarifying that no federal law prohibits these reports in any way.


 Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home. Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions. The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.​
 
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