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Obama Asks Doctors to Help Deal With Guns

So basically your saying that you don't like to be asked questions about statements you make because you just can't stand behind them.
Try not to be dense. The government has no right to tell me what toilet I may buy. It has no right to tell me what kind of light bulb I can buy. It has no right to tall me what car I can buy. The list of intrusions goes on and on and on.

Now if you want to step way from the really poor responses we can continue. To wrestle in the mud with a pig makes no sense to me. It is not a productive use of my time.
 
And you think that having a law which explicitly prohibits the govt from collecting this sort of data is a sign that the govt is going to collect this sort of data?

Isn't there some point, where you go, "Whoah! I am getting a little paranoid,"?

People who're trying to sell you outrage shouldn't be trusted anymore than any other advertiser.
I think we are being set up once again. Danger to the individual very nearly always comes from governments.


The NSA whistle blower from a while back said everyone's email, postings on web sites, really anything that passes through a router is being gathered by the NSA. He quit and went public. Then Gen Petraeus is outed. We had all of his emails. The Gen Allen is outed. We had all of his emails.

Lo and behold. There is real evidence that everything is being collected.

And there is real evidence that this government is trying to develop the tools that will allow them to make sense of it in near real time. Those schemes make possible a real Big Brother scenario. And a real police state where the government controls your life in every detail including your medical history, every utterance made in writing..they even want to put black boxes in our cars and our houses. All for our own good, of course.
 
Try not to be dense. The government has no right to tell me what toilet I may buy. It has no right to tell me what kind of light bulb I can buy. It has no right to tall me what car I can buy. The list of intrusions goes on and on and on.

Now if you want to step way from the really poor responses we can continue. To wrestle in the mud with a pig makes no sense to me. It is not a productive use of my time.

All those things that you say the big bad government is telling you not to buy are all still available on the open market. If you want a toilet that uses 4 or 5 gallons of water to flush you can get a new one from Lowes or Home Depot. I don't know why you'd want to waste that much water but you can if you want too. Most of the new luxury cars and trucks come in around 4000lbs, that's 2 tons. I assume you're talking about the old incandescent bulbs, those are a bit harder to find but I'm sure if you really wanted them you could find them somewhere. I just did a quick search and you can still get those bulbs until 2014, so again you're complaining about something that's still on the open market. I know this is the World Nut Daily but it was the first one that came up. Congress bans incandescent bulbs The phase-out of incandescent light is to begin with the 100-watt bulb in 2012 and end in 2014 with the 40-watt.
So again you're complaining about not being able to buy things that are still on the open market. Don't make sense...
 
They want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes, particularly if the parent that brought them in indicates that there are guns in the home. Do you think that is morally right? Should it be allowed? Note that I'm not talking about mentally disturbed people, i'm talking about normal, non-criminal, sane people.

I think I've already said that this is ridiculous and should not be followed... and have also said that this was nothing more than a suggestion, not a directive or law.
 
I think I've already said that this is ridiculous and should not be followed... and have also said that this was nothing more than a suggestion, not a directive or law.

Thats the problem, suggestions in our government tend to eventually become laws.
 
 Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home. Some have incorrectly claimed that language in the Affordable Care Act prohibits doctors from asking their patients about guns and gun safety. Medical groups also continue to fight against state laws attempting to ban doctors from asking these questions. The Administration will issue guidance clarifying that the Affordable Care Act does not prohibit or otherwise regulate communication between doctors and patients, including about firearms.[/indent]

There ya go.
 
No, its been two-three years, and I think it was a nurse filling out a questionaire now that I think about it.

Was ask by a former doctor probably ten or more years ago.
 
That completely ignores the psychological reality that women HAVE access to firearms but are less likely to use them. It also ignores the factual reality that the Japanese DEMONSTRATE means is simply NOT RELEVANT. Your position is the same mindless position advanced by those that ignore trends on violence and blame suicide...or violent crime...on 'the evil guns'.

When people are committed to kill themselves they do. By any means necessary. Japan PROVES how foolish the anti-gun argument is.

Quit with the "evil guns" bull****. At no point have I said anything like that and you are simply pretending that I hold a strictly anti gun view when in reality am not advocating for anything more than Doctors having the ability to ask abut things that can harm their patients, and that doctors have the ability to talk to authorities if there was a credible threat, regardless of weapon, from a patient.

Also, you are still ignoring my study and trying to pretend that alot of Japanese killing themselves is relevant. You think because they kill themselves often, they have proved you don't need guns, which is true, but you have not shown that they are killing themselves with 90% success rate like what you see from people that use guns to do the job.

Also, women are less likely to use firearms, that's why we don't have as many female suicides in this country. Thanks for proving my point, lol. Women attempt suicide over men by 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 depending on where you pull your statistic. However about four times as many men are successful at committing suicide, mainly because they use guns and women don't. Women often use suffocation or poisoning which has a very low success rate ( as pointed out in the study you still haven't read).

You are proving my point here dude. I'm giving it to you in black and white. If everyone that wanted to kill themselves went to every length to make sure of it regardless of what they use then women would be killing themselves at much greater rates as they attempt suicide much more often, however it's exactly the opposite of what you say should happen. They gender that uses guns is WAY more likely to be successful, and you can contribute that to men just having more will power to do it or whatever other excuse you want, but firearms play a large role in that statistic.

Now you can continue ignoring my facts and talk about japan or what ever you are going on about.
 
Quit with the "evil guns" bull****. At no point have I said anything like that and you are simply pretending that I hold a strictly anti gun view when in reality am not advocating for anything more than Doctors having the ability to ask abut things that can harm their patients, and that doctors have the ability to talk to authorities if there was a credible threat, regardless of weapon, from a patient.

Also, you are still ignoring my study and trying to pretend that alot of Japanese killing themselves is relevant. You think because they kill themselves often, they have proved you don't need guns, which is true, but you have not shown that they are killing themselves with 90% success rate like what you see from people that use guns to do the job.

Also, women are less likely to use firearms, that's why we don't have as many female suicides in this country. Thanks for proving my point, lol. Women attempt suicide over men by 3 to 1 or 4 to 1 depending on where you pull your statistic. However about four times as many men are successful at committing suicide, mainly because they use guns and women don't. Women often use suffocation or poisoning which has a very low success rate ( as pointed out in the study you still haven't read).

You are proving my point here dude. I'm giving it to you in black and white. If everyone that wanted to kill themselves went to every length to make sure of it regardless of what they use then women would be killing themselves at much greater rates as they attempt suicide much more often, however it's exactly the opposite of what you say should happen. They gender that uses guns is WAY more likely to be successful, and you can contribute that to men just having more will power to do it or whatever other excuse you want, but firearms play a large role in that statistic.

Now you can continue ignoring my facts and talk about japan or what ever you are going on about.
People that are committed to killing themselves do so. the means are eirrelevant. Women prove that, Japan as a country proves that. All you truly give a **** about is a cause...hence you cling to the 'eeeevil guns' as the deadly cause, even though Japanese citizens kill themselves at a rate 5x MORE than US citizens WITHOUT handguns. They use what they have.
 
People that are committed to killing themselves do so. the means are eirrelevant. Women prove that, Japan as a country proves that. All you truly give a **** about is a cause...hence you cling to the 'eeeevil guns' as the deadly cause, even though Japanese citizens kill themselves at a rate 5x MORE than US citizens WITHOUT handguns. They use what they have.

You're just repeating yourself over and over again while ignoring my points.

You don't even understand what we are de3bating here. I am not aiming for "get rid f all guns" or a country where we have 0 suicides. I don't think that's possibe and I don't want to get rid of all guns. But I do think asking certain people if they possess guns and tak about gun safty with them if they are deemed suicidal is a good idea. You are only arguing to argue. Hence, why you keep acting as though I am calling guns evil. You are acting like a brat of a child.

You act as though I have some ulterior motive. Wake up and realize what I'm arguing before screaming bloody murder. I have never said guns are always the cause, I have never said to take them away. I have only said that it's something that should be asked about if you have a suicidal patient. It makes sense.

And the idea that "well women commit suicide too, therefor talking to people about their guns won't do anything" is a retarded idea because 1. People that use guns are much more likley to be successful, and 2. people with access to guns are much more likly to commit a successful suicide.

Talk about the facts. I've mopped you up and down this thread with studies, statistics and facts backing my positions and you have reverted to baseless falsehoods such as that I think guns are evil or I have some kind of cause against guns. I'm done with you. I'll let you lie all you want without my stupid facts and studies getting in your way.
 
You're just repeating yourself over and over again while ignoring my points.

You don't even understand what we are de3bating here. I am not aiming for "get rid f all guns" or a country where we have 0 suicides. I don't think that's possibe and I don't want to get rid of all guns. But I do think asking certain people if they possess guns and tak about gun safty with them if they are deemed suicidal is a good idea. You are only arguing to argue. Hence, why you keep acting as though I am calling guns evil. You are acting like a brat of a child.

You act as though I have some ulterior motive. Wake up and realize what I'm arguing before screaming bloody murder. I have never said guns are always the cause, I have never said to take them away. I have only said that it's something that should be asked about if you have a suicidal patient. It makes sense.

And the idea that "well women commit suicide too, therefor talking to people about their guns won't do anything" is a retarded idea because 1. People that use guns are much more likley to be successful, and 2. people with access to guns are much more likly to commit a successful suicide.

Talk about the facts. I've mopped you up and down this thread with studies, statistics and facts backing my positions and you have reverted to baseless falsehoods such as that I think guns are evil or I have some kind of cause against guns. I'm done with you. I'll let you lie all you want without my stupid facts and studies getting in your way.
As are you. I see people that are in the process of or have recently attempted suicide pretty much every day. I understand the gig better than most because I deal with it approx 1200 times a year. Ive taken guns from people, knives from people, pill bottles from people, ropes from people. I see people attempt or threaten to attempt in every way manner and type you can imagine and many you couldn't. Go back the first time I posted in this thread and several times since and you will see that I stated WHERE the patient is expressing active suicidal ideation or extremes in depression it is not inappropriate for a medical doctor to ask questions regarding the availability of means. The reality is...that's usually not what they do. USUALLY when someone presents as a real threat they are referred immediately to a psych provider or sent to an ER via police or ambulance on a hold order for a psychiatric evaluation. If that's all this was, then there wouldn't be a need for further discussion. That's not what is being proposed. What IS being proposed is that these questions be asked as a matter of course by doctors and not only to adult patients but to children as well. That is not appropriate.

As to who is clinging to what and repeating the same thing, I have pretty clearly demonstrated...guns are just a means. Take away ALL guns ala Japan and people will still commit suicide. The EVEIDENCE proves they not only find successful means but do it SUCCESSFULLY 5 times more than we do in this country. Guns aren't the issue...but they sure are the cause.
 
There ya go.
You seem to have misread what the Weekly Standard said Obama said .
It doesn't say that young children should be asked.

Allow me...

Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.

Doctors ... need to be able to ask about firearms ... especially if ... [the patients] have a young child ... at home.

If you were to diagram the sentence, you would note that it does not indicate that there's any intention to ask children. It's about asking patients who have young children at home.

:shrug:

Any other sources which you purport say something akin to "[t]hey want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes"?
 
You seem to have misread what the Weekly Standard said Obama said .
It doesn't say that young children should be asked.

Allow me...

Protect the rights of health care providers to talk to their patients about gun safety: Doctors and other health care providers also need to be able to ask about firearms in their patients’ homes and safe storage of those firearms, especially if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child or mentally ill family member at home.

Doctors ... need to be able to ask about firearms ... especially if ... [the patients] have a young child ... at home.

If you were to diagram the sentence, you would note that it does not indicate that there's any intention to ask children. It's about asking patients who have young children at home.

:shrug:

Any other sources which you purport say something akin to "[t]hey want doctors to ask children about guns in their homes"?

Nope, think you misread it. The key word being "or". Which means it is a stand alone part of the sentence. Its like saying "You should do this, or that, or maybe that instead".

As for any other sources, nope, I'm not that interested in this particular part of the subject to look any up. Combine that with feeling lazy and thats just the way the cookies crumble. ;)
 
Nope, think you misread it. The key word being "or". Which means it is a stand alone part of the sentence. Its like saying "You should do this, or that, or maybe that instead".

As for any other sources, nope, I'm not that interested in this particular part of the subject to look any up. Combine that with feeling lazy and thats just the way the cookies crumble. ;)
" if their patients show signs of certain mental illnesses or if they have a young child "
Having a child in the house is one of the criteria listed. That is true.
Still doesn't say anything about asking children.
 
All those things that you say the big bad government is telling you not to buy are all still available on the open market. If you want a toilet that uses 4 or 5 gallons of water to flush you can get a new one from Lowes or Home Depot. I don't know why you'd want to waste that much water but you can if you want too. Most of the new luxury cars and trucks come in around 4000lbs, that's 2 tons. I assume you're talking about the old incandescent bulbs, those are a bit harder to find but I'm sure if you really wanted them you could find them somewhere. I just did a quick search and you can still get those bulbs until 2014, so again you're complaining about something that's still on the open market. I know this is the World Nut Daily but it was the first one that came up. Congress bans incandescent bulbs The phase-out of incandescent light is to begin with the 100-watt bulb in 2012 and end in 2014 with the 40-watt.
So again you're complaining about not being able to buy things that are still on the open market. Don't make sense...
Wrong. You do not even try do you. Has the government intruded in every single area I mention or not?

Is the government strangling the nation with its rules and regulations or not?
 
Wrong. You do not even try do you. Has the government intruded in every single area I mention or not?

Is the government strangling the nation with its rules and regulations or not?

You never said anything about intruding, you just came out whining about things you couldn't buy and I simply showed you where you were wrong.

What you consider "Intruding" others don't. I see nothing wrong with trying to reduce the use of our natural resources. List just 5 of these rules and regulations and explain how they are strangling the Nation.
 
I have serious reservations about getting doctors involved with second amendment issues. On the one hand, cases like Schizophrenia, Alzheimer's, and other diseases that affect one's mental state should be referred up the chain and these people should not be granted access to firearms. But what about simple depression? You can be having a ****ty run of luck, or grieving over a loved one, and you could be considered "clinically" depressed, and issued medication to "treat a chemical imbalance". So, do "depressed" people get their rights abridged? There is already tons of stigma attached to mental health issues, and I don't think the ability to abrogate or abridge rights is going to help with that at all. I mean, just imagine your typical, run of the mill dude who may be going through a rough time - is that guy going to avoid mental health services because they might start to strip him of his "normality"? If people want to talk to a counselor or therapist, there should be absolutely no roadblocks in the way of that. This shifty language looks like a roadblock to me.
 
You never said anything about intruding, you just came out whining about things you couldn't buy and I simply showed you where you were wrong.

What you consider "Intruding" others don't. I see nothing wrong with trying to reduce the use of our natural resources. List just 5 of these rules and regulations and explain how they are strangling the Nation.
I understand you now.

The simplest things are hard for you. You see nothing wrong with busybodies in government deciding for citizens what we can and cannot do.

I am sorry to hear that you were military. It appears you learned nothing from your time in uniform.
 
I understand you now.

The simplest things are hard for you. You see nothing wrong with busybodies in government deciding for citizens what we can and cannot do.

I am sorry to hear that you were military. It appears you learned nothing from your time in uniform.

The fact is, you can still get all those things that you say the Government tells you that you can not get. And I noticed you can not list any of these rags that you whine about. That's not new, most people can't they just spew whatever their handlers tell them too.
 
I find it funny how Obama thinks doctors are his bitch. He cuts their reimbursement rates for Medicare, and then expects them to be buddies with the government and notify them about their patients personal lives.
 
The fact is, you can still get all those things that you say the Government tells you that you can not get. And I noticed you can not list any of these rags that you whine about. That's not new, most people can't they just spew whatever their handlers tell them too.
I do not think you get it. I do not think you ever will.

Rags? Is that a military term? LOL.
 
I do not think you get it. I do not think you ever will.

Rags? Is that a military term? LOL.

I get it very well, I just chose not to go thru life with so much hate like you do. You just choose to play the victim because it makes you feel important. I'm still waiting for you to show some of these REGS that you say is chocking the Country. But I know you won't until you get them in your daily talking point e-mails from your handlers.
 
I get it very well, I just chose not to go thru life with so much hate like you do. You just choose to play the victim because it makes you feel important. I'm still waiting for you to show some of these REGS that you say is chocking the Country. But I know you won't until you get them in your daily talking point e-mails from your handlers.
Some people are far more comfortable with oppression and tyranny than others.

It is what it is.

Do you know how many regulations have been written to date just for the no longer Affordable Care Act?

Here are the numbers of regulations your busybody federal bureaucrats have been churning out:

Regulations With Comments Due Soon

Today(5)
Next 3 Days(82)
Next 7 Days(161)
Next 15 Days(330)
Next 30 Days(714)
Next 90 Days(963)

Newly Posted Regulations

Last 3 Days(127)
Last 7 Days(385)
Last 15 Days(844)
Last 30 Days(1,633)
Last 90 Days(5,470)
Over 5,400 regulations in just the last 90 days.

This is tyranny through the regulatory state. It has to stop. You are on the wrong side of history.
 
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