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Judge finds Riverside boy responsible for killing neo-Nazi father

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TheDemSocialist

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A Riverside County judge on Monday found a 12-year-old boy guilty of second-degree murder in the shooting and killing of his father, neo-Nazi activist Jeffrey Hall, as he slept on the family’s living room couch.He also was found guilty of a weapons charge, with the judge determining he knew right from wrong.
The youngster, just 10 years old when he pulled the trigger in May 2011, was charged as a juvenile and can be held in custody only until he is 23.
A separate hearing will be held to determine whether the boy should be sent to a juvenile detention center run by the state Department of Corrections, sent to an alternative treatment facility or placed on probation.
[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Testimony and evidence in the case, which began in October, revolved around the boy's upbringing and a family life steeped in the hatred and violence of the neo-Nazi movement, with psychologists focusing on whether those circumstances altered his capacity to realize that killing his father was wrong.[/FONT]
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Read more @: Judge finds Riverside boy responsible for killing neo-Nazi father - latimes.com [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]So what do you think? I think this no way justifies this kids acts but i dont believe he should be held in custody until he is 23. He was only 10 years old. I believe he should see a psychiatrist, and go through counselling, but should also be at home with his mother. I strongly believe hate only breeds hate and actions like this are consequences of that hate. [/FONT]
 
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I wasn't in court so I don't have all the facts, but it sounds like a bad ruling. Abusive neo-nazi fathers who get shot by their sons have only themselves to blame. The boy should get a medal and a little counseling.
 
Hell, I'd give the kid a medal. One less racist lunatic for the rest of us to worry about.
 
Seems harsh he was only 10. Im sure they will send him to a psyche
 
TheDemSocialist said:
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Read more @: Judge finds Riverside boy responsible for killing neo-Nazi father - latimes.com [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]So what do you think? I think this no way justifies this kids acts but i dont believe he should be held in custody until he was 23. He was only 10 years old. I believe he should see a psychiatrist, and go through counselling, but should also be at home with his mother. I strongly believe hate only breeds hate and actions like this are consequences of that hate. [/FONT]
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Yes, he should have been sent to a psychiatrist whilst also going to a juvenile detention centre to serve some sort of sentance (after all it is murder) for around maybe 2 years max.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
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[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Read more @: Judge finds Riverside boy responsible for killing neo-Nazi father - latimes.com [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]So what do you think? I think this no way justifies this kids acts but i dont believe he should be held in custody until he was 23. He was only 10 years old. I believe he should see a psychiatrist, and go through counselling, but should also be at home with his mother. I strongly believe hate only breeds hate and actions like this are consequences of that hate. [/FONT]
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Chances are extremely high that this kid had a really good reason to shoot his dad. At the absolute most, he should be in juvi until he's 18, but I think even that might be too harsh. Kids don't just shoot their neo nazi dads for no reason.

I'm terrified of the idea of having done something at 10 years old that will ruin my entire life.
 
He will no doubt be sent to a for-profit juvenile detention center and will thus be part of providing jobs for guards and profits for prison owners.

Business is business and you can't make an omelet without.....
 
I think he should go to jail. If mom was with dad, mom may not be the best influence either; and somebody who pulls a trigger like that should not be on the streets. It doesn't matter what his dad believed--the kid is a killer and only serving until 23 is a pretty damn good light sentence all on its own.
 
It is a classic example of overzealous god complexed prosecutions. If ever there was an example of a case that should been put in the pipeline for an arbitrated mutually agreed upon resolution this is it. Putting a ten year old into the system for more than a decade for any crime is ridiculous. We are subjecting the most emotionally malleable and least emotionally responsible in society to the traumatizing rigors of our terrible juvenile penal system and the mercy of corrections officers. It is a recipe for disaster that we still haven't figured out. In this case in particular the extenuating circumstances are extraordinary and do not seem to have been properly considered.

But the greatest factor is still that he is ten. He only learned how to freaking read 2 or 3 years ago. It's a travesty, and its a microcosm of what is so perversely wrong with our justice system.
 
Fisher said:
I think he should go to jail. If mom was with dad, mom may not be the best influence either; and somebody who pulls a trigger like that should not be on the streets. It doesn't matter what his dad believed--the kid is a killer and only serving until 23 is a pretty damn good light sentence all on its own.
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He was 10 years old.............. 10....
 
Its entirely possible he was taught that killing people is acceptable behavior by the very person he shot.

If so, make sure the kid understands his father was an idiot and chalk it up under "Thats what you get."

A ten year olds "reality" isn't the same as an adults. He may have known it was wrong, but not HOW wrong, for example.
 
Sherman123 said:
But the greatest factor is still that he is ten.
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No, the greatest factor is that he apparently murdered another human being in cold blood. Ten is plenty old enough to understand right from wrong, and especially to understand that killing is wrong.

From reading the article linked in the OP, I see that this boy has a history of violent behavior, including at least one attempt to kill one of his teachers. I also see that he apparently comes from a very abusive home. I don't see anything to suggest that I or any of the rest of us on this forum are in a better position than the judge presiding over this case to determine what is to be done with this boy. I do hope that some serious attempt is made at rehabilitating him, but I'm not optimistic about the success of any such effort. I hate to think what this boy will go on to do after he's released.


TheDemSocialist said:
He was 10 years old.............. 10....
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If he's this evil and violent at ten (or even younger—apparently, he has a history of violent behavior going back to the age of three) what is he going to be like as an adult?
 
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Bob Blaylock said:
If he's this evil and violent at ten (or even younger—apparently, he has a history of violent behavior going back to the age of three) what is he going to be like as an adult?
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He is 10. Just learned how to read. When i was 10 i was a hyper little pain in the ass, never listen to my parents, guess what i changed.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
He was 10 years old.............. 10....
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So, it wasn't like he was given the death penalty. If you let a 10 year old get away with murder, what kind of 20 year old are you creating? He needs to be punished.
 
Fisher said:
So, it wasn't like he was given the death penalty. If you let a 10 year old get away with murder, what kind of 20 year old are you creating? He needs to be punished.
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What kind of 23 year old are you creating that spent more than half of his life in jail? You're turning an angry and abused kid into an even angrier and abused adult.
 
Bob Blaylock said:
No, the greatest factor is that he apparently murdered another human being in cold blood. Ten is plenty old enough to understand right from wrong, and especially to understand that killing is wrong.

From reading the article linked in the OP, I see that this boy has a history of violent behavior, including at least one attempt to kill one of his teachers. I also see that he apparently comes from a very abusive home. I don't see anything to suggest that I or any of the rest of us on this forum are in a better position than the judge presiding over this case to determine what is to be done with this boy. I do hope that some serious attempt is made at rehabilitating him, but I'm not optimistic about the success of any such effort. I hate to think what this boy will go on to do after he's released.




If he's this evil and violent at ten (or even younger—apparently, he has a history of violent behavior going back to the age of three) what is he going to be like as an adult?
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Bob Blaylock saying ten is an old enough age to discern right from wrong, to comprehend the consequences of actions on a long term scale (a critical factor in youth cognition and juvenile justice), and to have the emotional maturity to have arrived at the course of action absent extenuating influences is really a ringing endorsement. Numerous neuroscientists, some might say the bulk at this point have come to the conclusion that our age for criminal responsibility is absurdly low given what we know about the brains of children (not youths, children).

None of this even begins to touch on the counter-productive approach we have to crime and societally damaging behavior which stresses despite mounting contradictory evidence that punishment will achieve the desired rehabilitative, corrective, and preventative results. It doesn't.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
What kind of 23 year old are you creating that spent more than half of his life in jail? You're turning an angry and abused kid into an even angrier and abused adult.
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Who will have had 10 fewer years of victims of his anger. So be it. I'd give him the max. You apparently would give him a hug. Lucky for somebody that neither one of us is the Judge, it is just a matter of who that someone is.
 
Fisher said:
Who will have had 10 fewer years of victims of his anger. So be it. I'd give him the max. You apparently would give him a hug. Lucky for somebody that neither one of us is the Judge, it is just a matter of who that someone is.
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I'm totally for personal responsibility and people suffering the consequences of their actions. But we're talking about a 10 year old kid. Someone we've all deemed to be too mentally incapable to drink, vote, or drive.
 
TheDemSocialist said:
[/COLOR][/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]Read more @: Judge finds Riverside boy responsible for killing neo-Nazi father - latimes.com [/FONT]

[FONT=Georgia, Times New Roman, Times, serif]So what do you think? I think this no way justifies this kids acts but i dont believe he should be held in custody until he is 23. He was only 10 years old. I believe he should see a psychiatrist, and go through counselling, but should also be at home with his mother. I strongly believe hate only breeds hate and actions like this are consequences of that hate. [/FONT]
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Since all they found him guilty of was a weapons charge, according to the OP, the judge (jury?) obviously felt there were extenuating circumstances that may have driven this boy to do what he did. I'm confident the sentence that's eventually handed down will reflect that. A 10-year-old boy surrounded by hate doesn't have the emotional maturity to deal with it the same way an adult would. He apparently did the only thing he thought he could. I have sympathy. (With the facts presented)
 
RabidAlpaca said:
I'm totally for personal responsibility and people suffering the consequences of their actions. But we're talking about a 10 year old kid. Someone we've all deemed to be too mentally incapable to drink, vote, or drive.
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Well he isn't 10 anymore. I get you feeling sympathy for him and all that, but if that were my kid, I really wouldn't want them back in my house. If the victim had been an elderly grandmother who nodded off while knitting, I suspect a lot of folks' analysis would be different--mine would not be. Once they pull that trigger, the game changes and the court who heard the evidence already decided the kid knew right from wrong.
 
People. This was a murder. Two years?? Probation??

Keep the little psycho where he can't hurt anyone else.
 
Fisher said:
Well he isn't 10 anymore. I get you feeling sympathy for him and all that, but if that were my kid, I really wouldn't want them back in my house. If the victim had been an elderly grandmother who nodded off while knitting, I suspect a lot of folks' analysis would be different--mine would not be. Once they pull that trigger, the game changes and the court who heard the evidence already decided the kid knew right from wrong.
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What does his current age have to do with anything? We're talking about his age at the time. So tell me, in your opinion, at what age are human beings mentally capable of making proper decisions? Would you send a 2 year old to jail for murder? A 6 year old? What is your cutoff?

You're saying 10 year old kids are of responsible mental capacity. Shouldn't they be allowed to drink, vote and drive?
 
RabidAlpaca said:
What does his current age have to do with anything? We're talking about his age at the time. So tell me, in your opinion, at what age are human beings mentally capable of making proper decisions? Would you send a 2 year old to jail for murder? A 6 year old? What is your cutoff?

You're saying 10 year old kids are of responsible mental capacity. Shouldn't they be allowed to drink, vote and drive?
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I am saying what the article said, the Court has made that determination already based upon the evidence it was presented. I don't have a cut off. It depends on the kid and what they did.
 
Fisher said:
I am saying what the article said, the Court has made that determination already based upon the evidence it was presented. I don't have a cut off. It depends on the kid and what they did.
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I see. So in questions of morality you always leave your thinking to the government or simply other people. Good to know.
 
JayDubya said:
People. This was a murder. Two years?? Probation??

Keep the little psycho where he can't hurt anyone else.
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Meanwhile the world has one less racist Nazi to worry about. The fewer of them the better.
 
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