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NRA's Newtown solution: Armed guards in schools

actually the people he attacked were not allowed to have guns the base was a like a city with no CCW-the only people armed were the small number of MPs and perimeter guards

There we're still armed guards. Where were they? I'm sure most bases have a plan in place in case it comes under attack. Concealed carry usually only applies in public places. A base is the property of the military, they can make their own rules about their own property, IMO.
 
it was a gun free zone created by dem politicians

It was a gun free zone created by theater owners excercising their property rights, and by a business in a free market.

It's amazing how the right loves to throw property rights and free market forces under the bus when it comes to guns.
 
Guns don't kill people, people kill people. Therefore the only logical solution is to get rid of the people.
 
Armed guards are a great idea, IMO. Far better to have a few well trained people with weapons than to have everybody carrying a gun.

If you think armed teachers are the solution, I point this out: Ft. Hood is a military base. It's not like the shooter was the only guy with a weapon there.

Where he committed mass murder, yes, actually, he was.
 
I agree and I would agree if a liberal politician or a teaparty politician or group said the same thing.

It is impossible to keep all schools and all kids safe from nutjobs, cant be done. We as society can only minimize it and to do that we have to give up some liberty and do some things many find distasteful, but the end result if it keeps kids even a little safer that it may be worth it. The risk and cost vs results has to be decided.

Some ideas off the top of my head, all doors locked into the school once the kids are inside. Entrance and exit from one door only with an armed guard with metal detectors or at the minimum paddles. All personel, students, parents an ups delivery men and women all get paddled. Windows either barred or the safety glass that has wire mesh in the middle if you shoot it out you still cant get in. Bullet proof glass would cost hugely.
Anyone that believes a ban on assault weapons is going to stope school shootings is as off as the nutjobs that commit those horrific crimes.
Someone armed with a revolver with speed loaders can kill a whole bunch of people in a school before he was stopped. There are people that can speed load revolvers as fast as you can drop a clip and throw in a new one.
Security in every school is the only way to minimize this slaughter...arming teachers that are in individual classrooms is only good in that room...you need armed security that moves everywhere, the bigger the school the more security. America either has to PAY to keep the kids safe and make some distasteful decisions...or keep pissing up a rope whining about gun control that wont work.
Where I disagree is putting working Police Officers in every school...You can hire retired police officers and have them supervise and train a staff if needed for far less of a cost.

The National Rifle Association stunned Washington observers Friday when the group’s CEO announced a plan to install armed guards at every school in the country — its response to the Connecticut shooting last week that left 20 children dead.


I agree that security needs to be improved and armed. IMHO having teachers with concealed carry permits in the classroom and around schools is a bad idea. School districts need to forge relationships with local police so both can collaboratively fund school police salaries and equipment.

One problem with school security is that many school buildings are outdated and campuses are too open. Have security at all entrances and stop vehicles without parking decals visible to security. Exits should be effectively designed for traffic to go out only; try to enter and your tires blow out. Similar to military base entrance/exit security. This will help prevent violence from external sources.

To prevent internal sources of violence have school police as well as unarmed security like mall security to patrol hallways and perimeter. Have school violence prevention hot lines set up and train counselors in intervention methods to identify and respond to possible threats with school administration, security, police, et al.

Continually refine and practice lock down and response procedures for acts of violence. This needs to be done bi-monthly, and twice during the first two weeks of school.

As we have recently seen, no school is too small or too remote to implement and continually practice safety procedures that will save lives.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1061278593 said:
I agree that security needs to be improved and armed. IMHO having teachers with concealed carry permits in the classroom and around schools is a bad idea. School districts need to forge relationships with local police so both can collaboratively fund school police salaries and equipment.

One problem with school security is that many school buildings are outdated and campuses are too open. Have security at all entrances and stop vehicles without parking decals visible to security. Exits should be effectively designed for traffic to go out only; try to enter and your tires blow out. Similar to military base entrance/exit security. This will help prevent violence from external sources.

To prevent internal sources of violence have school police as well as unarmed security like mall security to patrol hallways and perimeter. Have school violence prevention hot lines set up and train counselors in intervention methods to identify and respond to possible threats with school administration, security, police, et al.

Continually refine and practice lock down and response procedures for acts of violence. This needs to be done bi-monthly, and twice during the first two weeks of school.

As we have recently seen, no school is too small or too remote to implement and continually practice safety procedures that will save lives.

Arming all teachers is just ridiculous, we couldnt afford it. First of all to arm all teachers they would first have to be fully Police Commission trained, thats classroom and range and pass qualifications. They would all have to pass psychological tests. What happens to the teachers that cant pass ? you fire them. After they are qualified they would have to qualify twice yearly and get 40 hrs each training. Were talking about being armed around kids. Not only that...and im not knocking teachers here, but there is the occaisional wacko teacher.
Having trained security thats appropriate for each schools needs is the way to go imo...but we must make physcial security changes as well.
 
All this and more is media driven. MEDIA DRIVEN. The TV population of the US is in a state of controlled hysteria. "We have to protect kids at school! We have to protect kids at school Help! Help!" I agree in part, but I'm not feckin hysterical about it. The first thing Americans must do is STOP listening to and watching electronic media. STOP IT! Think for yourselves. STOP allowing television to dictate your thoughts and your emotions. If you seriously want to make the world better and safer for children, stop watching ANY television news related programming period!

Electronic media has directed America to focus on protecting kids in schools. Guess what people, the chances that your children will be involved in a school shooting are extremely small. Sure, there should be a hardening of schools as opportunities for mad bastards? Of course. But over 3/4 of a school aged child's life is spent OUTSIDE of school.

It's madman whack-a-mole when we do not address the real issue. Hardening schools just sends the crazies to softer targets. It only makes children safer from violence at school, where they don't spend most of their time and where the risks remain relatively low.

God forbid, but it what would stop even greater violence against kids at a Chuckie Cheese? Wait, they don't permit guns in Chuckie Cheese, right?

Children are a soft target for these sick pukes because they are innocent, not in the least bit organized, and are not focused on self preservation. That's wonderful and that is the way their lives should be. But it makes them vulnerable. Anywhere they are in large groups makes them vulnerable.

The sickness that would cause violent attacks against any and all innocent people, especially children is a societal one. If America is serious about identifying the social issues and the psychological issues that cause mass murder it will require that deep and honest research and analysis be conducted. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. President Obama has already said that. Washington is going to do a quick evaluation of school security and gun control and will have a report on the President's desk in January. Feel good legislation will eventually be passed. In real terms it will mean next to nothing other than more media air time. In the meantime the real solution will be unknown and will never be addressed.
 
Good grief, we are venturing into absurd territory. First, this is a very expensive solution (aren't we in government cost reduction mode and particularly going after government workers, which include the police? make up your mind, Cons!); second, its doesn't work. There was a Sheriff's deputy at Columbine; a police force at VPI.... a lot of good they did.

DEPUTIES_TEXT

There are many schools and few police. You simply can not have adequate coverage unless you want to turn Franklin High into Fort Franklin (maybe only build high schools inside Army posts).... Come on, Get real! This has to be one of the dumbest solutions floated thus far. I feel bad for anyone that wasted an afternoon listening to this yahoo from the NRA.

People that believe that armed guards or armed teachers are the solution to the proliferation of public violence are of limited intellect. The problem is very complex, as are the solutions.

The broad acceptance of arming our schools as some type of practical "solution" makes it obvious that as a society, we have left our thinking caps in the dryer a bit too long.

Since this is such a stupid idea, what do you propose?
 
actually the people he attacked were not allowed to have guns the base was a like a city with no CCW-the only people armed were the small number of MPs and perimeter guards

Short of a gun in every room, a school shooting isnt going to be any different. Couple guys in a security office who need 5 minutes to figure out where the shooting is even happening.
 
And since when do people who believe schools are godless liberal indoctrination camps support arming the indoctrinators?
 
All this and more is media driven. MEDIA DRIVEN. The TV population of the US is in a state of controlled hysteria. "We have to protect kids at school! We have to protect kids at school Help! Help!" I agree in part, but I'm not feckin hysterical about it. The first thing Americans must do is STOP listening to and watching electronic media. STOP IT! Think for yourselves. STOP allowing television to dictate your thoughts and your emotions. If you seriously want to make the world better and safer for children, stop watching ANY television news related programming period!

Electronic media has directed America to focus on protecting kids in schools. Guess what people, the chances that your children will be involved in a school shooting are extremely small. Sure, there should be a hardening of schools as opportunities for mad bastards? Of course. But over 3/4 of a school aged child's life is spent OUTSIDE of school.

It's madman whack-a-mole when we do not address the real issue. Hardening schools just sends the crazies to softer targets. It only makes children safer from violence at school, where they don't spend most of their time and where the risks remain relatively low.

God forbid, but it what would stop even greater violence against kids at a Chuckie Cheese? Wait, they don't permit guns in Chuckie Cheese, right?

Children are a soft target for these sick pukes because they are innocent, not in the least bit organized, and are not focused on self preservation. That's wonderful and that is the way their lives should be. But it makes them vulnerable. Anywhere they are in large groups makes them vulnerable.

The sickness that would cause violent attacks against any and all innocent people, especially children is a societal one. If America is serious about identifying the social issues and the psychological issues that cause mass murder it will require that deep and honest research and analysis be conducted. THAT IS NOT GOING TO HAPPEN. President Obama has already said that. Washington is going to do a quick evaluation of school security and gun control and will have a report on the President's desk in January. Feel good legislation will eventually be passed. In real terms it will mean next to nothing other than more media air time. In the meantime the real solution will be unknown and will never be addressed.

tumblr_mfkahuWuju1rw5dlyo1_500.jpg


Some interesting news has broken in the wake of the latest push for gun control by President Obama and Senate Democrats: Obama sends his kids to a school where armed guards are used as a matter of fact.

The school, Sidwell Friends School in Washington, DC, has 11 security officers and is seeking to hire a new police officer as we speak.

The larger point is that this is standard operating procedure for the school, period. And this is the reason people like NBC's David Gregory send their kids to Sidwell, they know their kids will be protected from the carnage that befell kids at a school where armed guards weren't used (and weren't even allowed).....snip~

School Obama's Daughters Attend Has 11 Armed Guards


You don't think he already knew? What about the Rest of those Democrats that have known for years with sending their kids to a School they know will be safe?
 
Only in America would your response to a tradegy like this is be MORE GUNS. I think Americas obession with guns is getting out of control/ borderline insane.
 
Only in America would your response to a tradegy like this is be MORE GUNS. I think Americas obession with guns is getting out of control/ borderline insane.

How else would you stop an insane shooter? Let's hear your plan.
 
Arming all teachers is just ridiculous, we couldnt afford it. First of all to arm all teachers they would first have to be fully Police Commission trained, thats classroom and range and pass qualifications. They would all have to pass psychological tests. What happens to the teachers that cant pass ? you fire them. After they are qualified they would have to qualify twice yearly and get 40 hrs each training. Were talking about being armed around kids. Not only that...and im not knocking teachers here, but there is the occaisional wacko teacher.
Having trained security thats appropriate for each schools needs is the way to go imo...but we must make physcial security changes as well.

What in the heck guarantees that a trained security guard wouldn't ever freak out? ANYONE can freak out at any time. I don't see a problem with arming a few teachers in the school at all.

I mean really, you trust teachers with your children all day long.
 
You ever heard of Dunblane

Dunblane school massacre - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The UK's reponse was to restrict firearms and ban handguns. Since then we have had 0 mass school shootings.

That is irrelevant since we are talking about the United States and gun ownership is a RIGHT. Also, that article is irrelevant because it does not mention that arming certain select teachers would result in some kind of massacre of kids. Face it, your argument has NO merit.
 
That is irrelevant since we are talking about the United States and gun ownership is a RIGHT. Also, that article is irrelevant because it does not mention that arming certain select teachers would result in some kind of massacre of kids. Face it, your argument has NO merit.

argument has no merit even though we havent had a shooting like that in the UK since? Also I didnt realise that owning a fully automatic weapon was a right?
End of the day the very fact your even considering arming teachers shows how insane your argument is! While your at it why not surround the school in wire and build a moat? Anything to avoid tackling the actual issue.
 
argument has no merit even though we havent had a shooting like that in the UK since? Also I didnt realise that owning a fully automatic weapon was a right?
End of the day the very fact your even considering arming teachers shows how insane your argument is! While your at it why not surround the school in wire and build a moat? Anything to avoid tackling the actual issue.

The issue here is SICK people. Not the tool they choose to use to kill. Cripes, people could just set fire to schools or bomb them too. It's pretty easy and cheap to make a bomb you know.

Why do you want to take away one of our precious rights anyway? DUH!!! People will still be able to get a gun if they want to. I don't know WHAT is hard to understand about that.
 
The issue here is SICK people. Not the tool they choose to use to kill. Cripes, people could just set fire to schools or bomb them too. It's pretty easy and cheap to make a bomb you know.

Why do you want to take away one of our precious rights anyway? DUH!!! People will still be able to get a gun if they want to. I don't know WHAT is hard to understand about that.

what and they dont have sick people all around the world? Are you suggesting that Americas high gun murder rate is because of sick people?
 
Only in America would your response to a tradegy like this is be MORE GUNS. I think Americas obession with guns is getting out of control/ borderline insane.

Thousands of Americans are rushing to their local gun stores to buy high-powered rifles and ammunition in a bid to thwart a potential assault weapons ban in the wake of last week’s Connecticut school massacre, Fox News reports.

More than three million Americans own an AR-15, which gun store owners say buyers like because “it's the civilian version of the fearsome M-16 used by the U.S. military,’’ CBS News reports.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Americans Fearing Weapons Ban Load Up On Guns and Ammo
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

Gun Sales Skyrocket After Newtown - Political News Video

How about CBS reporting the same with a Video and a Special on Dateline?

Looks like more than just a small minority.....huh?
 
Thousands of Americans are rushing to their local gun stores to buy high-powered rifles and ammunition in a bid to thwart a potential assault weapons ban in the wake of last week’s Connecticut school massacre, Fox News reports.

More than three million Americans own an AR-15, which gun store owners say buyers like because “it's the civilian version of the fearsome M-16 used by the U.S. military,’’ CBS News reports.

Read Latest Breaking News from Newsmax.com Americans Fearing Weapons Ban Load Up On Guns and Ammo
Urgent: Should Obamacare Be Repealed? Vote Here Now!

Gun Sales Skyrocket After Newtown - Political News Video

How about CBS reporting the same with a Video and a Special on Dateline?

Looks like more than just a small minority.....huh?



which is why America has such a high gun murder rate....
 
http://hawaiiccw.com/gun-myths/concealed-carry-myths/concealed-carry-laws-increase-crime/

Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime

Fact: Thirty-nine states, comprising the majority of the American population, are”right-to-carry” states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988.

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws

Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.

For all scholarly links and citation information please visit Gun Facts.
 
what and they dont have sick people all around the world? Are you suggesting that Americas high gun murder rate is because of sick people?

That among other factors. Are you saying that if there is a gun nearby, you will turn into a murderer?
 
which is why America has such a high gun murder rate....

Well you can stay "safe" while giving up your freedom and independence.
 
Myth: Concealed carry laws increase crime

Fact: Thirty-nine states, comprising the majority of the American population, are”right-to-carry” states. Statistics show that in these states the crime rate fell (or did not rise) after the right-to-carry law became active (as of July, 2006). Nine states restrict the right to carry and two deny it outright.

Fact: Crime rates involving gun owners with carry permits have consistently been about 0.02% of all carry permit holders since Florida’s right-to-carry law started in 1988.

Fact: After passing their concealed carry law, Florida’s homicide rate fell from 36% above the national average to 4% below, and remains below the national average (as of the last reporting period, 2005).

Fact: In Texas, murder rates fell 50% faster than the national average in the year after their concealed carry law passed. Rape rates fell 93% faster in the first year after enactment, and 500% faster in the second. Assaults fell 250% faster in the second year.

Fact: More to the point, crime is significantly higher in states without right-to-carry laws

Fact: States that disallow concealed carry have violent crime rates 11% higher than national averages.

Fact: Deaths and injuries from mass public shootings fall dramatically after right-to-carry concealed handgun laws are enacted. Between 1977 and 1995, the average death rate from mass shootings plummeted by up to 91% after such laws went into effect, and injuries dropped by over 80%.

For all scholarly links and citation information please visit Gun Facts.


fact
Adjusting for population, the U.S. death rate by firearms -- which includes homicides, suicide and accidents -- was 10.2 per 100,000 people in 2009, according to the Coalition for Gun Control. The closest developed country was Finland, with a firearms death rate of 4.47 per 100,000 people in 2008, less than half that of the U.S. rate. In Canada, the rate was 2.5 per 100,000 people in 2009. In the United Kingdom, the 2011 rate was 0.25 per 100,000 people.

That's a weapon effect. It's not clear that guns cause violence, but it's absolutely clear that they change the outcome
 
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