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Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school

wolfman24 said:
the gun belonged to his parents.
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I'm not seeing where that's reported. In ONE article alone thus far I saw this:

The boy told his friends that his parents urged him to bring the unloaded .22 caliber pistol to school for protection following the Sandy Hook school massacre in Newtown, Conn., on Friday, the station reported.

Read more: Utah 6th grader brings gun to school 'for protection' in Sandy Hook aftermath, points it at classmate's head during recess: report - NY Daily News
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If true, the parents should be held accountable. But as it is, sounds like an 11 year old spinning tales.
 
tessaesque said:
And yet we've seen several news stories in the last few months about children very close to 11 protecting themselves and their families from harm by using guns. So obviously it's ridiculous to make blanket statements about the ability of an 11 year old child.
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Really. We're going to have a discussion about my post??

If you think an 11-year-old who brings a gun to school is right, that's on you. I think it's wrong. If you think parents are right to have guns readily accessible to their 11-year-olds so they can take them to school, that's on you too. If you think an 11-year-old is mature enough to be some kind of a guardian to his fellow students by using his gun? Well, post that up and that'll be the second dumbest post I've read on DP.
 
MaggieD said:
I call 'em like I see 'em. To say that an 11-year-old is capable of defending himself or his classmates by bringing a gun to school is ridiculous.
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Why not? Children his age have defended their parents in home burglaries by shooting the burglar, so why not protect a classroom of students? Why is the one possible, but not the other? It would seem to me that if the child his age can understand a threat and protect himself and his family in the home that the child could do so in a school. Look, I didn't say it should be banked on, but its completely realistic as there is mountains of evidence to suggest such a thing.
 
tessaesque said:
And yet we've seen several news stories in the last few months about children very close to 11 protecting themselves and their families from harm by using guns. So obviously it's ridiculous to make blanket statements about the ability of an 11 year old child.
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There are also hundreds of accidental deaths per year due to children playing with guns; and not just toddlers, sometimes kids in the age rage at issue here. WHile some individual children have managed to successfully defend themselves in emergency situations, that's a far cry from allowing an 11 year old to routinely carry a loaded weapon while at school and around quite a lot of other eleven year olds (also older and younger children), some of whom will probably want to bring their own guns to school. That is a recipe for disaster.
 
Henrin said:
Why not? Children his age have defended their parents in home burglaries by shooting the burglar, so why not a classroom of students? Why is the one possible, but not the other? It would seem to me that if the child his age can understand a threat and protect his himself and his family in the home that the child could do so in a school. Look, I didn't say it should be banked on, but its completely realistic as there is mountains of evidence to suggest such a thing.
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Since he brought it unloaded, I think your point is moot. You may be able to find an anomaly about a young child successfully defending his home with a gun, but to think this is anywhere near normal is just silly.
 
MaggieD said:
Really. We're going to have a discussion about my post??

If you think an 11-year-old who brings a gun to school is right, that's on you. I think it's wrong. If you think parents are right to have guns readily accessible to their 11-year-olds so they can take them to school, that's on you too. If you think an 11-year-old is mature enough to be some kind of a guardian to his fellow students by using his gun? Well, post that up and that'll be the second dumbest post I've read on DP.
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I didn't make any of those arguments.

You said 11 year olds are not capable of defending themselves and others. That is a ridiculous statement to make. Calling it a ridiculous statement does not mean I endorse what this child did. I've said the exact opposite in this thread, in fact.

That said, my advise: If your posts will be nothing but emotional-driven hyperbole without a lick of reflection or calm analysis you're going to have a hard time in this thread. Illogical emotional reactions don't solve problems. They create broad, baseless, ignorant generalizations, and the defense of those generalizations will lead you to posting strawman arguments and accusations that make even less sense.
 
Aderleth said:
There are also hundreds of accidental deaths per year due to children playing with guns; and not just toddlers, sometimes kids in the age rage at issue here. WHile some individual children have managed to successfully defend themselves in emergency situations, that's a far cry from allowing an 11 year old to routinely carry a loaded weapon while at school and around quite a lot of other eleven year olds (also older and younger children), some of whom will probably want to bring their own guns to school. That is a recipe for disaster.
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Nobody is arguing for that.
 
tessaesque said:
I didn't make any of those arguments.

You said 11 year olds are not capable of defending themselves and others. That is a ridiculous statement to make. Calling it a ridiculous statement does not mean I endorse what this child did. I've said the exact opposite in this thread, in fact.

That said, my advise: If your posts will be nothing but emotional-driven hyperbole without a lick of reflection or calm analysis you're going to have a hard time in this thread. Illogical emotional reactions don't solve problems. They create broad, baseless, ignorant generalizations, and the defense of those generalizations will lead you to posting strawman arguments and accusations that make even less sense.
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I don't need your advice. And there's nothing in this thread that is going to solve any problem. Please keep your posts to the thread topic and stop making this about me and my supposed illogical emotional reactions.
 
madman said:
I tell ya, all of these nut jobs are coming out of the woodwork.
His parents should do some time for this if the gun was found to come from the home.

Ohh, and this doesnt surprise me coming from "UTAH".


Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school | The Salt Lake Tribune


A sixth-grade Utah boy was in police custody late Monday after bringing a handgun to school, reportedly so that he could defend himself in the event of an attack, Granite School District officials said.
"He has alluded in his defense that he brought it as a way to defend himself and his friends if there was a Connecticut-style incident at the school," district spokesman Ben Horsley said.
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What will happen to that boys parents? Will they be jailed for allowing access to a gun by a minor? Will their children be taken away? This is yet another of the problems we have with guns. We leave them around for anyone to pick up and there are no consequences unless the person is a mass murderer. Like that boy in Newtown. It is unacceptable. And the more guns we sell the worse this gets.
 
tessaesque said:
Nobody is arguing for that.
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You're arguing that 11 year olds are capable of defending themselves and others with deadly force. I'm pointing out that while that's true in narrow contexts, occassionally, it's a far cry from common, and if taken to its logical conclusion, leads to absurd and patently dangerous results.
 
MaggieD said:
I don't need your advice. And there's nothing in this thread that is going to solve any problem. Please keep your posts to the thread topic and stop making this about me and my supposed illogical emotional reactions.
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Somebody's got to call out irrationality when it happens. Irrational, poorly thought through, emotional reactions led to irrational, poorly thought through, emotional ACTIONS. It is perfectly on topic to say that your interpretation of somebody's topic-related post is off base. It is also on topic to say your posts REGARDING THE TOPIC are off base.
 
Aderleth said:
You're arguing that 11 year olds are capable of defending themselves and others with deadly force. I'm pointing out that while that's true in narrow contexts, occassionally, it's a far cry from common, and if taken to its logical conclusion, leads to absurd and patently dangerous results.
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I'm arguing that it is idiotic to say "An 11 year old is incapable of defending themselves and others". That's a generalized statement based on ignorance and fails to account for the fact that children 11 and younger HAVE done EXACTLY that. I never said, "All 11 year olds can defend themselves and others".
 
tessaesque said:
Somebody's got to call out irrationality when it happens. Irrational, poorly thought through, emotional reactions led to irrational, poorly thought through, emotional ACTIONS. It is perfectly on topic to say that your interpretation of somebody's topic-related post is off base. It is also on topic to say your posts REGARDING THE TOPIC are off base.
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All right, Tess. You're not a person I wish to get in a cat fight with. I'm done responding to your posts about me. Feel free to continue if you wish.
 
madman said:
I tell ya, all of these nut jobs are coming out of the woodwork.
His parents should do some time for this if the gun was found to come from the home.

Ohh, and this doesnt surprise me coming from "UTAH".


Utah 6th-grader in custody after bringing gun to school | The Salt Lake Tribune


A sixth-grade Utah boy was in police custody late Monday after bringing a handgun to school, reportedly so that he could defend himself in the event of an attack, Granite School District officials said.
"He has alluded in his defense that he brought it as a way to defend himself and his friends if there was a Connecticut-style incident at the school," district spokesman Ben Horsley said.
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Kudos to his mom and pop for bringing up a smart kid. Kid is worthy of an applause or imitation
 
tessaesque said:
I'm arguing that it is idiotic to say "An 11 year old is incapable of defending themselves and others". That's a generalized statement based on ignorance and fails to account for the fact that children 11 and younger HAVE done EXACTLY that. I never said, "All 11 year olds can defend themselves and others".
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The statement that started this sub-topic was " ...at his age he is capable of doing such a task," that task being defending himself. That is also a blanket statement, and it is also stupid.
 
MaggieD said:
Since he brought it unloaded, I think your point is moot. You may be able to find an anomaly about a young child successfully defending his home with a gun, but to think this is anywhere near normal is just silly.
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My post is about children his age and their capabilities, not this given situation and if the gun in question was loaded or not. Its been shown many times over that children can handle similar situations and its been shown children his age can be trained to understand how to use a gun safely.
 
Aderleth said:
The statement that started this sub-topic was " ...at his age he is capable of doing such a task," that task being defending himself. That is also a blanket statement, and it is also stupid.
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Well I never said all kids his age can or for that matter all people can. I simply said children his age are capable of doing it. That is a fact.
 
Henrin said:
My post is about children his age and their capabilities, not this given situation and if the gun in question was loaded or not. Its been shown many times over that children can handle similar situations and its been shown children his age can be trained to understand how to use a gun safely.
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A young child cannot be trusted to use a loaded gun unsupervised by an adult. If you think they can? God bless ya'.
 
MaggieD said:
A young child cannot be trusted to use a loaded gun unsupervised by an adult. If you think they can? God bless ya'.
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That's painting with a ridiculously broad brush there, Maggie.
 
Henrin said:
Well I never said all students can or will either or for that matter all people can.
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You said at his age he is capable of doing such a task. Not that he might be, or that he has the potential to be, but that he is capable. The clear implication is that you were stating a generality. If that's not what you meant, that's fine.
 
MaggieD said:
A young child cannot be trusted to use a loaded gun unsupervised by an adult. If you think they can? God bless ya'.
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Granted, as a general rule that is true, but its not true for all children. While its not advisable to make a policy change due to the fact that some children are able to handle a gun safely, its also not true to say all children can not.
 
ric27 said:
Kudos to his mom and pop for bringing up a smart kid. Kid is worthy of an applause or imitation
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no, it was really dumb/ignorant on his and his parents part. And you want an applause him now for having a record. I thought conservatives where all about law.
Perhaps its just the laws that they agree with
 
There is a huge gulf between can and should. Heck, my uncle was providing the family with food, by himself, with a 22 rifle when he was that age. He certainly was on his own while doing it, and he knew exactly what he was doing. BUT, that's not how kids grow up now, they don't have the same training, the same socialization.

Having armed 11 year olds at school is a recipe for heart-wrenching disaster. Rare individuals may do just fine with it, but for most, the lack of training and judgement will eventually show.
 
I've posted enough that I'll assume you are aware that a) I don't own a gun because I don't trust me b) I have a non-lethal weapon in multiple locations around my house c) I'm not "anti-gun.

That being reiterated, I want to ask what purpose guns have if you have to keep them locked up? Surely, in the middle of a home invasion, you're not going to run to the gun safe, enter 27 left 24 right 14 left flip the handle, open remove from rack, aim and fire. You're going to want the gun(s) highly accessible, loaded and ready to go. But once you arrange that, any body else can easily take them. A thief, a visitor, your grandkid Charlie etc.

So, how do you handle this? Inquiring minds etc.......
 
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