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Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

The Second Amendment was written when it took 15 seconds to reload a gun. I wonder if the Forefathers are rolling in their graves today.

And that was considered an incredible time for a british regular. Imagine what the reload time would be for an average american militiaman.
 
That is the nature of law itself to restrict actions that are substantially harmful to society than perhaps productive or beneficial. Absolute freedom equates to anarchy which I'm assuming you're not a fan of.

I'm sorry if you're upset with our restriction of your right of murder, but I think the other party might be thankful.

Please don't make such statement that are dangerously general.

Quit it with the hyperbole, will you? We have ALWAYS had the rights that the second amendment affords us. Seen any "anarchy" yet? :roll:
 
Quit changing the goalposts.

Why is gun violence such a problem in the US?

Because we have some mentally disturbed violent people which is what this thread started out addressing. If we did not have guns, they would be violent other ways (for example: Cops: Canada bus killer ate victim's flesh - World news - Americas | NBC News). I am not moving the goal post unless your only goal is to take guns. My goal is to address the violence, beginning with the violent mentally ill we have. From there we address avoiding violence by changing our education system but we cannot ignore the more immediate problem.
 
Quit it with the hyperbole, will you? We have ALWAYS had the rights that the second amendment affords us. Seen any "anarchy" yet? :roll:

Why am I not allowed to bring a gun to school then? Isnt that a breach of my 2nd amendment rights to you? So apparantly we all havent been afforded our absolute 2nd amendment right. Similar to the way the 1st amendment is limited the 2nd amendment is limited to preserve the stability of the USA.
 
That is the nature of law itself to restrict actions that are substantially harmful to society than perhaps productive or beneficial. Absolute freedom equates to anarchy which I'm assuming you're not a fan of.

I'm sorry if you're upset with our restriction of your right of murder, but I think the other party might be thankful.

Please don't make such statement that are dangerously general.

:lamo I just can't help myself. Your fearful hyperbole is Hilarious. :lamo
 
Why am I not allowed to bring a gun to school then? Isnt that a breach of my 2nd amendment rights to you? So apparantly we all havent been afforded our absolute 2nd amendment right. Similar to the way the 1st amendment is limited the 2nd amendment is limited to preserve the stability of the USA.

Yes, there are certain restrictions and requirements. What's your point?
 
Its political theory and practice. Familiarize yourself with it if you please.

Political theory of a paranoid anti second amendment person perhaps. To us who want to preserve and protect OUR rights, it is nothing but silly hyperbole.
 
My point is, an increase of restrictions and requirements are needed because of the ever changing nature of firearms.

Why? .
 
That's what the problem is. Not enough guns. If the principal of that school had been armed or if just ONE person had been armed, they could have taken that loon out.
 
The Second Amendment was written when it took 15 seconds to reload a gun. I wonder if the Forefathers are rolling in their graves today.

Thomas Jefferson wouldn't likely:

“A society that will trade a little liberty for a little order will lose both, and deserve neither”

“I would rather be exposed to the inconveniences attending too much liberty than to those attending too small a degree of it.”

Thomas Jefferson quotes
 
Because we have some mentally disturbed violent people which is what this thread started out addressing. If we did not have guns, they would be violent other ways (for example: Cops: Canada bus killer ate victim's flesh - World news - Americas | NBC News). I am not moving the goal post unless your only goal is to take guns. My goal is to address the violence, beginning with the violent mentally ill we have. From there we address avoiding violence by changing our education system but we cannot ignore the more immediate problem.

You obviously do not want to debate gun violence. I am wasting my time.
 
You obviously do not want to debate gun violence. I am wasting my time.

Since this thread is about violence and mental health issues which you have not addressed in any meaningful way, I concur you have been wasting your time trying to turn it into another gun control thread.
 
The Second Amendment was written when it took 15 seconds to reload a gun. I wonder if the Forefathers are rolling in their graves today.

the first amendment was written when it took a day to print a newspaper and 4 hours to distribute it to someone a few miles away
 
:lamo I just can't help myself. Your fearful hyperbole is Hilarious. :lamo

its not fear-its a desire to harass people who are "not progressive" by attacking a right progressives often do not utilize
 
As I stated in my initial post which it appears you neglected to read although I believe you quoted it. I put my interpretation of te 2nd Amendment is to fullfill our need of a National Militia. This is done by our National Guard thus maing the latter part of the text nill. So in reality, based off of my intrepretation your gun rights are up for grabs.
Fortunately you have no more power than anyone else to change the Constitution or its Bill of Rights to suit today's purposes.

Your solution will fail. It does not address the problem.

I think repealing all gun-free zones could happen this week.
I think every school board should meet in the next month or so to develop gun training programs for all school employees.
I think every town, city and state should evaluate all laws that make it easier for children to grow up in one-parent households.
I think every town, city and state should evaluate all laws that make it more expensive or more difficult for its citizens to purchase, keep, train with, and carry firearms.

I do not know how to address with crazy people. Someone else will have to figure that out. But why worry about the occasional alligator when governments at all level are creating more swamp within which monsters grow.

We have at least two issues. The first is how to stop monsters. The second is how to reduce the number of dysfunctional people who grow up criminals willing to use violence against their neighbors.

Liberalism bears great responsibility. Maybe there should be a substantial penalty for being liberal.
 
My point is, an increase of restrictions and requirements are needed because of the ever changing nature of firearms.
Perhaps you should consider the constancy of human nature.
There will always be monsters who walk among us. How do we stop them? Usually we stop them with a gun.
 
The Second Amendment was written when it took 15 seconds to reload a gun. I wonder if the Forefathers are rolling in their graves today.
Their goal was to make sure the citizens could be armed with weapons equal to that carried by the infantry. Shall we rearm our soldiers and Marines with breech loading firearms, just to make it fair?
 
http://www.jewishjournal.com/david_suissa/article/sandy_hook_beyond_gun_control_disease_control

Ever since last Friday's murderous rampage at Sandy Hook Elementary School in Newtown, Conn., the primal scream of "We need tougher gun control laws!" has been heard throughout much of the blogosphere, social networks and mainstream media.

If it weren't so easy to obtain lethal weapons, the argument goes, it wouldn't be so easy to commit these horrific crimes.

This is a powerful argument, so powerful that it can blind us to a deeper argument- the notion that mass violence is very much a disease, and until we treat it as such, gun control and law enforcement can only do so much.

......

In a seminal study published in 2000 by The New York Times that examined 100 rampage attacks over 50 years, the authors noted our lack of knowledge on this subject: "While many possible causes have been cited, including violent video games, a decline in moral values and the easy availability of guns, there has been little serious study of this explosive violence."

We have "overlooked a critical issue," the study pointed out, which is that "at least half of the killers showed signs of serious mental health problems."

The study adds: "Society has turned to law enforcement to resolve the rampage killings that have become almost a staple of the nightly news. There has been an increasing call for greater security in schools and in the workplace. But a closer look shows that these cases may have more to do with society's lack of knowledge of mental health issues, rather than a lack of security.

......

Outstanding analysis Fisher!

We are a violent country, as we mostly support our government that daily practices violence on a daily basis. It's shameful and disgusting.

So kids learn violence from all around them. As Mr. Justice Brandeis observed in the Olmstead decision, our government is the potent, the omnipresent teacher. For good or for ill, it teaches the whole people by its example.

A century later, it is safe to say that far more ill has been generated by poor government policies, than good. That's what the repeal mechanism is for, within the Halls Of Government. They are supposed to repeal the policies if they are shown to be harmful to society at large.

And of course in this sad case, the pharmaceuticals at play had alot to do with it.
 
Fortunately you have no more power than anyone else to change the Constitution or its Bill of Rights to suit today's purposes.

Your solution will fail. It does not address the problem.

I think repealing all gun-free zones could happen this week.
I think every school board should meet in the next month or so to develop gun training programs for all school employees.
I think every town, city and state should evaluate all laws that make it easier for children to grow up in one-parent households.
I think every town, city and state should evaluate all laws that make it more expensive or more difficult for its citizens to purchase, keep, train with, and carry firearms.

I do not know how to address with crazy people. Someone else will have to figure that out. But why worry about the occasional alligator when governments at all level are creating more swamp within which monsters grow.

We have at least two issues. The first is how to stop monsters. The second is how to reduce the number of dysfunctional people who grow up criminals willing to use violence against their neighbors.

Liberalism bears great responsibility. Maybe there should be a substantial penalty for being liberal.

A very good suggestion sir! Bravo! Teachers are entitled to their own self defense, like anybody else.

:peace It's always relevant to add here that pharmaceutical abuse has very much to do with violent episodes by teenagers.
 
Perhaps you should consider the constancy of human nature.
There will always be monsters who walk among us. How do we stop them? Usually we stop them with a gun.

The fact that you call people who have mental diseases monsters is disgusting. What these people really need is treatment not persecution.
 
its not fear-its a desire to harass people who are "not progressive" by attacking a right progressives often do not utilize

Get over yourselves. The very fact that you assume my only purpose is to harrass people for a right for which in fact I do utilize is ridiculous. I am all for guns for people who use them for recreational purposes such as hunting. I do not believe however ordinary people should be allowed to own military grade weopons. Give me a good reason you as a everyday citizen would need that weapon.
 
the first amendment was written when it took a day to print a newspaper and 4 hours to distribute it to someone a few miles away


Exactly we have created certain restrictons on the 1st amendment as years have progressed so why shouldnt we d the same for fire arms?
 
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