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Sandy Hook: Beyond gun control, disease control

falcata said:
The fact that you call people who have mental diseases monsters is disgusting. What these people really need is treatment not persecution.
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Sorry, but anyone who goes on a killing rampage shooting little kids fits the definition of "monster".
 
falcata said:
Exactly we have created certain restrictons on the 1st amendment as years have progressed so why shouldnt we d the same for fire arms?
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you confuse use restrictions with possession restrictions

everything harmful one can DO with a firearm is already illegal
 
falcata said:
The fact that you call people who have mental diseases monsters is disgusting. What these people really need is treatment not persecution.
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Maybe it is just me but anyone who would murder 27 unarmed people is a monster.

Your mileage may vary.
 
Misterveritis said:
Maybe it is just me but anyone who would murder 27 unarmed people is a monster.

Your mileage may vary.
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and such a person "just needs killin" even if his excuse was he was "sick"

of course he is "sick" and like a mad dog, he would need putting down
 
falcata said:
Get over yourselves. The very fact that you assume my only purpose is to harrass people for a right for which in fact I do utilize is ridiculous. I am all for guns for people who use them for recreational purposes such as hunting. I do not believe however ordinary people should be allowed to own military grade weopons. Give me a good reason you as a everyday citizen would need that weapon.
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Do you believe we have a Bill of Needs?

Or is this more of "From each according to his abilities. To each according to his needs"?

Not only do I NOT have to explain why I want a weapon to you. I also do not have to explain it to the government.
 
Misterveritis said:
Do you believe we have a Bill of Needs?

Or is this more of "From each according to his abilities. To each according to his needs"?

Not only do I NOT have to explain why I want a weapon to you. I also do not have to explain it to the government.
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many "progressives do"

its sad but people who least understand weapons and their uses are often the ones so quick to tell the rest of us "what they need"

that such people may get the power to enforce their desires is NEED ENOUGH for the rest of us to be armed well
 
TurtleDude said:
many "progressives do"

its sad but people who least understand weapons and their uses are often the ones so quick to tell the rest of us "what they need"

that such people may get the power to enforce their desires is NEED ENOUGH for the rest of us to be armed well
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A weapons use is to kill maim injure or the impression of that no matter the side of the fence one is on
 
winston53660 said:
A weapons use is to kill maim injure or the impression of that no matter the side of the fence one is on
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and that is a problem why? a weapon wouldn't have much protective use if it couldn't kill or maim would it
 
winston53660 said:
I said it was a problem?



Nor intimidation use either Mr 20k rounds stashed in the basement.
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how many golf balls do you think a scratch golfer hits in a year

how many tennis balls does an all american tennis player serve in a year

well I was a world class shooter and I expect my son will be

I don't have near that many rounds in my basement

but I have lots and lots in fireproof safes. we shoot a thousand rounds of month easily
 
TurtleDude said:
we shoot a thousand rounds of month easily
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I remember the days when I put more than a thousand rounds downrange each month.

The very first day I arrived at my first Army unit (it was an Air Defense Battery- company level organization) the unit was heading to the range. I took my M1911 45 cal pistol and went. We fired quite a bit. I had not fired in months but it came back easily. Although the weapon was untuned and sloppy I did quite well. "Nice shootin' WT" said one Sergeant. Another chimed in with similar words.

I went to my platoon sergeant, " I know what LT is. What is WT?" Why William Tell, sir," came his response.

Those were very interesting times.
 
TurtleDude said:
how many golf balls do you think a scratch golfer hits in a year

how many tennis balls does an all american tennis player serve in a year

well I was a world class shooter and I expect my son will be

I don't have near that many rounds in my basement

but I have lots and lots in fireproof safes. we shoot a thousand rounds of month easily
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Okay so nice for you:coffeepap
 
TurtleDude said:
its not fear-its a desire to harass people who are "not progressive" by attacking a right progressives often do not utilize
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Don't you just LOVE how they're using this tragedy to try and take away one of our rights? What the heck is wrong with these people anyway. I swear all of the people who agree to "banning" or "restricting" one of our rights must be under the age of 12 since they don't seem to realize the Pandora's box they are opening. :doh It's so annoying.
 
Even though the people here who support taking away one of our rights openly ADMIT that their silly laws and bans would have NOT changed the outcome of this particular situation, and even though it has been pointed out TIME AND TIME AGAIN that criminals don't follow laws nor listen to bans, they still INSIST on their ridiculousness. Why?
 
So what can we do?
What should we do?

Repeal all gun free zone legislation. Nationwide. Allow each school board to determine whether or not they want to be gun free. Hold the board members personally liable for their vote.
Develop the Armored Schools Initiative. Provide block grants to states based on the number and square footage of the schools. Have the money go to the schools to armor the exteriors, internal doors...whatever is appropriate for each school.
Develop the Master Armed Teacher Initiative and competition. Provide block grants to the states to train and arm government employees beginning with teachers and administrators. Give them a month of tactical training with a variety of weapons. Let each individual choose the weapon they prefer and are best able to master. At the end of the training their "graduation" gift can be the handgun of their choice based on their demonstrated proficiency.
Have annual competitions. Begin at the county, city and state levels. Have small individual prizes for the top five competitors in each category. Maybe a sliding scale from $100 per competitor all the way up to $10,000 for the top competitor at each level of competition. At the national level the winner takes home $100K for him or herself with a million dollar prize for the school district.
Change the laws so a trained individual's use of a hand gun to protect anyone cannot be tried criminally or civilly. Have a five member panel determine if the shooting was appropriate. If appropriate the case is closed. If not then take it to trial.

Change concealed carry laws to encourage citizens to become trained and armed. Offer tax benefits to those who train and arm.
 
One Bushmasterr .223 selling point is the load, because it has better fragmentation upon impact, meaning it will deal a lot of damage with less chance of accidentally continuing through the target and endangering whoever's in the background. Mr Lanza will have been comforted to know that his shots would have spread and stopped inside the target child's body, and not accidentally injured somebody by coming out the other side.
 
If someone else had been armed at this school, they could have stopped this from happening. That is the TRULY sad thing. These people in "gun-free" zones are sitting ducks for criminals who don't care about "gun-free zones."
 
This is not going to be a popular opinion, but the best thing to "do" is to do nothing. Every option on the table either makes us less free or less safe.

We can't let emotion overwhelm us and drive our decisions. Yes, what happened was tragic. We have to accept that sometimes tragic things happen, and there isn't anything that can be done about it.
 
Einzige said:
Here's a solution for you: implement a five cent tax on gunpowder to restore the mental health services Ronald Reagan gutted in the 1980s.

But that's pragmatic, and doesn't lend itself well to moralistic shrieking.

EDIT: Of course, this has also been proposed by the fellows at the Democratic Underground, so you may rest assured that fault will be found with the proposers of this policy, rather than the policy itself.
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I love this idea.

The stories coming out now, told by parents dealing with adolescents with serious mental health issues, and their only recourse is to have their child arrested. That is shameful that mentally ill people have to commit a crime before we doing anything to help them.
 
So what I've gathered thus far is that basically what it all boils down to is that over the past 100 years the major changes when it comes to gun laws is an increase in restrictions. Concerning the criminally insane or just mentally ill people with the potential to carry out violent acts, well there are just more of them out there on the streets (since we no longer as a society find it just to lock them away like we use to).

I don't see why people are even discussing tighter gun control legislation since it either plays no role in the increase in this type of gun violence or it possibly makes things worse given the overall trends in our society.

I think what we have to look at is our treatment of people who are mentally ill specifically those with a potential of doing some sort of physical harm to others. We need better treatment and as much as people probably are not going to want to hear it we need to be stricter when it comes to their personal liberties in order to protect the rest of society. Either way, like many have already stated I think this is exactly where we need to be looking in order to come up with some sort of feasible action plan.

*my response is based on an overview of what I've been hearing and is subject to change :cool:
It would help to do a case study on each state and town where such violence has taken place, study the people, study the laws and see if there are any significant trends.
 
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